Chris Webber compares the NCAA to slavery

[AbeVigodaLive]

These kids playing in the Little League World Series should be paid too!!!!!

I'm tired of this nonsense! A free education is worthless!!!!!!

It's not worthless, but it's no place near what the market value of these guys (in the big sports anyway) would be otherwise in a free market.

Pay them market value, and let them pay for their own education.

They are granted the platform to earn tens of millions of dollars in the future.

I love sports. A lot. But aren't the best athletes coddled and rewarded enough? You go to college to learn and improve so you're viable in the professional world... whether you're studying to become a doctor, lawyer, designer, economist, stripper, pro baller.

[Robceltsfan]

These kids playing in the Little League World Series should be paid too!!!!!

I'm tired of this nonsense! A free education is worthless!!!!!!

It's not worthless, but it's no place near what the market value of these guys (in the big sports anyway) would be otherwise in a free market.

Pay them market value, and let them pay for their own education.

And then when the kids don't pay for tuition with that cash....or they spend it on cocaine. Very, very few 17-21 year olds are ready to cope with having 6 figures in their bank account, particularly if they came from backgrounds where the bank account hovered around zero most of the time.

Start up a minor league football system if you don't like the NCAA and their slave-mentality. Baseball has a gigantic farm system employing thousands of kids in that age range. I get so fucking tired of hearing about the money with college kids. That money gets used in some positive ways within the college landscape, and if the kids are smart enough, they get a free education and ensure their future is solid no matter what happens in their sports career.

Paying "some" college athletes and not others will bring up a completely different level of whining from other groups. Why only football and men's basketball players? Why do football players get $50K while baseball players only get $10K?

Fuck all that.

[Kingcarl24]

These kids playing in the Little League World Series should be paid too!!!!!

I'm tired of this nonsense! A free education is worthless!!!!!!

It's not worthless, but it's no place near what the market value of these guys (in the big sports anyway) would be otherwise in a free market.

Pay them market value, and let them pay for their own education.

They are granted the platform to earn tens of millions of dollars in the future.

I love sports. A lot. But aren't the best athletes coddled and rewarded enough? You go to college to learn and improve so you're viable in the professional world... whether you're studying to become a doctor, lawyer, designer, economist, stripper, pro baller.

BYU's Stipper Program is pretty incredible and tough to get into. You should see what you have to do to get admitted.

[Robceltsfan]

It's not worthless, but it's no place near what the market value of these guys (in the big sports anyway) would be otherwise in a free market.

Pay them market value, and let them pay for their own education.

They are granted the platform to earn tens of millions of dollars in the future.

I love sports. A lot. But aren't the best athletes coddled and rewarded enough? You go to college to learn and improve so you're viable in the professional world... whether you're studying to become a doctor, lawyer, designer, economist, stripper, pro baller.

BYU's Stripper Program is pretty incredible and tough to get into. You should see what you have to do to get admitted.

:hulahoop:

[AbeVigodaLive]

It's not worthless, but it's no place near what the market value of these guys (in the big sports anyway) would be otherwise in a free market.

Pay them market value, and let them pay for their own education.

They are granted the platform to earn tens of millions of dollars in the future.

I love sports. A lot. But aren't the best athletes coddled and rewarded enough? You go to college to learn and improve so you're viable in the professional world... whether you're studying to become a doctor, lawyer, designer, economist, stripper, pro baller.

BYU's Stipper Program is pretty incredible and tough to get into. You should see what you have to do to get admitted.

How much would you pay to see a scantily-clad coed perform the Provo Push right now...

[Bush4Ever]

And what do you do with 95% of athletes that lose the school money?

The school eats it? Raises tuition for everyone else?

Hmm...maybe not sponser them in the first place? Find other sources of revenue? It's not like it's set in stone that you *must* have all the sports currently on deck or the exact same payment system for all athletes regardless of market value.

C-Web basically got "paid" 10 percent of his market value in order to subsidize sports and athletes no one gives a crap about. In what other area of life would that make sense?

"Sorry Dr. X who works and advances cutting-edge nanotechnology...we got to slash your salary by 80 percent so that we can bring in and support Dr. Y who studies the sociology of homosexual Siberian Eskimos. No complaining!"

[AlaskaHawks]

And what do you do with 95% of athletes that lose the school money?

The school eats it? Raises tuition for everyone else?

Hmm...maybe not sponser them in the first place? Find other sources of revenue? It's not like it's set in stone that you *must* have all the sports currently on deck or the exact same payment system for all athletes regardless of market value.

C-Web basically got "paid" 10 percent of his market value in order to subsidize sports and athletes no one gives a crap about. In what other area of life would that make sense?

"Sorry Dr. X who works and advances cutting-edge nanotechnology...we got to slash your salary by 80 percent so that we can bring in and support Dr. Y who studies the sociology of homosexual Siberian Eskimos. No complaining!"

It makes sense seeing as we as Americans subsidize 51% of the population.

It wouldn't make sense in your scenario, because Dr X is already making that wage.

[Bush4Ever]

I love sports. A lot. But aren't the best athletes coddled and rewarded enough? You go to college to learn and improve so you're viable in the professional world... whether you're studying to become a doctor, lawyer, designer, economist, stripper, pro baller.

Pay isn't related to being coddled or being tough. It's related to productivity. You can be the most spoiled asshat in the world, and if you are producing 50x more than someone else, you should be getting paid approximately 50x more.

The obvious difference between people like me or the average college student and them is that Purdue didn't make tens of millions of dollars of me when I was studying nerd stuff in my nerd hole.

[Robceltsfan]

And what do you do with 95% of athletes that lose the school money?

The school eats it? Raises tuition for everyone else?

Hmm...maybe not sponser them in the first place? Find other sources of revenue? It's not like it's set in stone that you *must* have all the sports currently on deck or the exact same payment system for all athletes regardless of market value.

C-Web basically got "paid" 10 percent of his market value in order to subsidize sports and athletes no one gives a crap about. In what other area of life would that make sense?

"Sorry Dr. X who works and advances cutting-edge nanotechnology...we got to slash your salary by 80 percent so that we can bring in and support Dr. Y who studies the sociology of homosexual Siberian Eskimos. No complaining!"

Dr. X is a..........wait for it..........DOCTOR. He graduated and is now a professional. He may have done research in college that led to breakthroughs in medicine that made some pharmaceutical company millions of dollars.....but he (likely) won't see a dime of that. What he will get is the notoriety that he is a brilliant mind, which will lead to a high paying job in his future.

Just like in college sports.

[Bush4Ever]

And then when the kids don't pay for tuition with that cash....or they spend it on cocaine. Very, very few 17-21 year olds are ready to cope with having 6 figures in their bank account, particularly if they came from backgrounds where the bank account hovered around zero most of the time.

Start up a minor league football system if you don't like the NCAA and their slave-mentality. Baseball has a gigantic farm system employing thousands of kids in that age range. I get so fucking tired of hearing about the money with college kids. That money gets used in some positive ways within the college landscape, and if the kids are smart enough, they get a free education and ensure their future is solid no matter what happens in their sports career.

Paying "some" college athletes and not others will bring up a completely different level of whining from other groups. Why only football and men's basketball players? Why do football players get $50K while baseball players only get $10K?

Fuck all that.

In what other area of life would we accept a *systematic and obvious* underpaying of individuals, which is only possible in the first place because of artificial regulations and constraints (between the NCAA and government in this case)?

[AbeVigodaLive]

I love sports. A lot. But aren't the best athletes coddled and rewarded enough? You go to college to learn and improve so you're viable in the professional world... whether you're studying to become a doctor, lawyer, designer, economist, stripper, pro baller.

Pay isn't related to being coddled or being tough. It's related to productivity. You can be the most spoiled asshat in the world, and if you are producing 50x more than someone else, you should be getting paid approximately 50x more.

The obvious difference between people like me or the average college student and them is that Purdue didn't make tens of millions of dollars of me when I was studying nerd stuff in my nerd hole.

Sure. Profitability/productivity should be rewarded... at the pro level. And it is.

The NCAA is absurdly corrupt. But we live in a culture that already rewards coddled, entitled athletes (and billionaire owners) enough in my estimation. Does our insatiable appetite have no bounds? Maybe... maybe not.

I don't know what the solution is. While I dislike the NCAA... I don't know if I'm all in on paying athletes who are already given tens upon tens of thousands in tuition and food and lodging and extras... all while giving them the platform to earn millions upon millions of dollars... while the vast majority of American families have to mortgage/sacrifice their futures just to keep up with the ridiculously escalating college tuition prices.

[Robceltsfan]

And then when the kids don't pay for tuition with that cash....or they spend it on cocaine. Very, very few 17-21 year olds are ready to cope with having 6 figures in their bank account, particularly if they came from backgrounds where the bank account hovered around zero most of the time.

Start up a minor league football system if you don't like the NCAA and their slave-mentality. Baseball has a gigantic farm system employing thousands of kids in that age range. I get so fucking tired of hearing about the money with college kids. That money gets used in some positive ways within the college landscape, and if the kids are smart enough, they get a free education and ensure their future is solid no matter what happens in their sports career.

Paying "some" college athletes and not others will bring up a completely different level of whining from other groups. Why only football and men's basketball players? Why do football players get $50K while baseball players only get $10K?

Fuck all that.

In what other area of life would we accept a *systematic and obvious* underpaying of individuals, which is only possible in the first place because of artificial regulations and constraints (between the NCAA and government in this case)?

The Olympics?

[AlaskaHawks]

And then when the kids don't pay for tuition with that cash....or they spend it on cocaine. Very, very few 17-21 year olds are ready to cope with having 6 figures in their bank account, particularly if they came from backgrounds where the bank account hovered around zero most of the time.

Start up a minor league football system if you don't like the NCAA and their slave-mentality. Baseball has a gigantic farm system employing thousands of kids in that age range. I get so fucking tired of hearing about the money with college kids. That money gets used in some positive ways within the college landscape, and if the kids are smart enough, they get a free education and ensure their future is solid no matter what happens in their sports career.

Paying "some" college athletes and not others will bring up a completely different level of whining from other groups. Why only football and men's basketball players? Why do football players get $50K while baseball players only get $10K?

Fuck all that.

In what other area of life would we accept a *systematic and obvious* underpaying of individuals, which is only possible in the first place because of artificial regulations and constraints (between the NCAA and government in this case)?

The Olympics?

[Bush4Ever]

It makes sense seeing as we as Americans subsidize 51% of the population.

It wouldn't make sense in your scenario, because Dr X is already making that wage.

That doesn't make it right, it just makes it common.

The scenario I described is essentially what happens at most bigtime schools and programs, since the ratio between payment and productivity is hilariously lopsided for basketball/football (on the side of productivity) *which in turn* allows for the hilariously lopsided ratio for most other sports (on the side of payment).

A person who produces more should be paid more. A person who produces less should be paid less.

[Robceltsfan]

It makes sense seeing as we as Americans subsidize 51% of the population.

It wouldn't make sense in your scenario, because Dr X is already making that wage.

That doesn't make it right, it just makes it common.

The scenario I described is essentially what happens at most bigtime schools and programs, since the ratio between payment and productivity is hilariously lopsided for basketball/football (on the side of productivity) *which in turn* allows for the hilariously lopsided ratio for most other sports (on the side of payment).

A person who produces more should be paid more. A person who produces less should be paid less.

The better athletes DO make more. They get to choose which high profile school they go to, which in turn gets them more visibility for their next job. The lesser athletes may be stuck going to a small D-1 school, or maybe a D-2 or D-3 school....making it difficult to gain notoriety and get employed at the "next level".

They don't all simply make "the same wage". Some schools have built up programs in a way that allows them to showcase their athletes in a more prevalent fashion than other schools. This is an increase to the student-athletes "wage".

[Bush4Ever]

Dr. X is a..........wait for it..........DOCTOR. He graduated and is now a professional. He may have done research in college that led to breakthroughs in medicine that made some pharmaceutical company millions of dollars.....but he (likely) won't see a dime of that. What he will get is the notoriety that he is a brilliant mind, which will lead to a high paying job in his future.

Yes, and all the while he's doing those things, he's getting paid a higher salary (and compensation in general) because he has skills and abilities more highly valued by the market.

If someone came in and cut his compensation by 80 percent and said "well, you still have 4 years to do your thing...after which you may be hired by one of the 2-3 big players in this space", most people would immediately recognize that as flawed, especially if it was due to the coalition of parties (NCAA and government) and done in large part to subsidize things no one really cares about.

[Robceltsfan]

Dr. X is a..........wait for it..........DOCTOR. He graduated and is now a professional. He may have done research in college that led to breakthroughs in medicine that made some pharmaceutical company millions of dollars.....but he (likely) won't see a dime of that. What he will get is the notoriety that he is a brilliant mind, which will lead to a high paying job in his future.

Yes, and all the while he's doing those things, he's getting paid a higher salary (and compensation in general) because he has skills and abilities more highly valued by the market.

If someone came in and cut his compensation by 80 percent and said "well, you still have 4 years to do your thing...after which you may be hired by one of the 2-3 big players in this space", most people would immediately recognize that as flawed, especially if it was due to the coalition of parties (NCAA and government) and done in large part to subsidize things no one really cares about.

I outlined that in my previous post.

College athletes get the same thing. Your analogy is seriously flawed in so many ways.

[Bush4Ever]

Sure. Profitability/productivity should be rewarded... at the pro level. And it is.

The NCAA is absurdly corrupt. But we live in a culture that already rewards coddled, entitled athletes (and billionaire owners) enough in my estimation. Does our insatiable appetite have no bounds? Maybe... maybe not.

I don't know what the solution is. While I dislike the NCAA... I don't know if I'm all in on paying athletes who are already given tens upon tens of thousands in tuition and food and lodging and extras... all while giving them the platform to earn millions upon millions of dollars... while the vast majority of American families have to mortgage/sacrifice their futures just to keep up with the ridiculously escalating college tuition prices.

So we should knowingly support aND structure that underpays *certain* individuals because other individuals are struggling?



[Note: The structure of athletics in college has absolutely nothing to do with the college cost of Joe and Jane student. Zip. ]

[AbeVigodaLive]

Sure. Profitability/productivity should be rewarded... at the pro level. And it is.

The NCAA is absurdly corrupt. But we live in a culture that already rewards coddled, entitled athletes (and billionaire owners) enough in my estimation. Does our insatiable appetite have no bounds? Maybe... maybe not.

I don't know what the solution is. While I dislike the NCAA... I don't know if I'm all in on paying athletes who are already given tens upon tens of thousands in tuition and food and lodging and extras... all while giving them the platform to earn millions upon millions of dollars... while the vast majority of American families have to mortgage/sacrifice their futures just to keep up with the ridiculously escalating college tuition prices.

So we should knowingly support aND structure that underpays *certain* individuals because other individuals are struggling?



[Note: The structure of athletics in college has absolutely nothing to do with the college cost of Joe and Jane student. Zip. ]

Underpays who? The athletes are getting free education, food, lodging and perks. The rest of the kids are paying tens of thousands of dollars for a lot less.

Is it perfect? No. Is creating a greater chasm in college closer to perfect?

[Bush4Ever]

The better athletes DO make more. They get to choose which high profile school they go to, which in turn gets them more visibility for their next job.

That's not "making more".

You can do all those things while paying athletes in accordance with their productivity and value. There is literally nothing contradictory about them.

This is all compounded by the fact that college athletics is absolutely not a free-market system. Without the regulations and use of force aided by the state, college athletics would absolutely not be able to pull the kind of crap that they do. The system has essentially placed a (near-total) forced choice on basketball and football players.