Can someone please tell me WHO has LeBron "made better"...?

[vcsgrizzfan]

Mo Williams had higher points/possession his first two years with Lebron compared to the two years prior to playing with Lebron, as well as a higher EFG+

No one cares about your made-up stats... unless you've got one that adjusts for all those "fake" Assists LeBron has been awarded all these years??

No, you don't care about advanced metrics because you are too dumb to understand them. They are critically important to getting a better understanding of the game.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Fun Fact: BJ Armstrong made one all star game. In a year MJ took off. Mo Williams made one all star game. In one of the two years he played with LeBron.

BJ in 93 with MJ: .499% FGA / .453% from 3 (led the NBA)
BJ in 94 w/Out MJ: .476% / .444 from 3

[thedangerouskitchen]

No it didn't, it led to a decline in the amount of time the ball was in that journeyman's hands.....which was apparently a REALLY good thing.

Williams' PPG, REB, AST and STL declined with LeBron vs. his last 2 years with the Bucks.

What part of "decline in his time with the ball in his hands" didn't you understand???

So HOW did LeBron make Williams "better" if he kept the ball out of his hands more, leading to a decline in Williams' stats across the board???

[vcsgrizzfan]

Fun Fact: BJ Armstrong made one all star game. In a year MJ took off. Mo Williams made one all star game. In one of the two years he played with LeBron.

BJ in 93 with MJ: .499% FGA / .453% from 3 (led the NBA)
BJ in 94 w/Out MJ: .476% / .444 from 3

I repeat. BJ Armstrong made one all star game. Without MJ. Mo Williams made one all star game. With LeBron. Pesky facts!!!!!!!!!!!

[thedangerouskitchen]

Mo Williams had higher points/possession his first two years with Lebron compared to the two years prior to playing with Lebron, as well as a higher EFG+

No one cares about your made-up stats... unless you've got one that adjusts for all those "fake" Assists LeBron has been awarded all these years??

No, you don't care about advanced metrics because you are too dumb to understand them. They are critically important to getting a better understanding of the game.

They are NOT "facts", meatball... they are based on made-up formulas using randon/arbitrary numbers AND in one instance at least, CHANGED because it didn't yield the result the designer wanted.

PS:

Non all-star BJ in 93 w/MJ: 14.7 PER / .570% TS% / .537 eFG%
All-star BJ in 94 w/out MJ: 14.5 PER / .547 TS% / .505 eFG%

Now STHU meatball.

[Robceltsfan]

The Bulls were still so good post-MJ's first time quitting that the NBA simply HAD TO PICK someone on the roster to be an all-star.

How much help did MJ need?!?!?!?!

[Bush4Ever.]

Points per possession is perfectly measurable and literally the opposite of arbitrary.

lol

[Robceltsfan]

A made up stat would be...."taught him how to win".

[vcsgrizzfan]

No one cares about your made-up stats... unless you've got one that adjusts for all those "fake" Assists LeBron has been awarded all these years??

No, you don't care about advanced metrics because you are too dumb to understand them. They are critically important to getting a better understanding of the game.

They are NOT "facts", meatball... they are based on made-up formulas using randon/arbitrary numbers AND in one instance at least, CHANGED because it didn't yield the result the designer wanted.

PS:

Non all-star BJ in 93 w/MJ: 14.7 PER / .570% TS% / .537 eFG%
All-star BJ in 94 w/out MJ: 14.5 PER / .547 TS% / .505 eFG%

Now STHU meatball.

Of course they are facts. They are just facts you don't understand.

I place almost no relevance to PER as it has by far the least amount of value, especially in assessing defense. Great defenders like Bruce Bowen and Dennis Rodman have terrible PERs because they didn't block shots or get steals. PER has the least amount of correlation to overall performance and impact on the game of the advanced metrics. Frankly, I don't even include it when I look at overall performance. That lack of correlation to overall performance makes it of limited usefulness. I don't even consider PER an advanced metric.

But TS% Efg%, box score +/- and many other advanced metrics are critical to understanding the game and an individual player's impact. If you don't pay attention to those, you are just working with more limited information and making less informed assessments as a result.

By the way, as you try to defend MJ in the Armstrong case, your hypocrisy shows in spades. LeBron had Mo having by far his best seasons in Efg%, TS%, win shares, win shares per minute, VORP etc, and yet you denigrate LeBron's impact on Mo.

You always to try to suck and whistle at the same time when conflict arises against your biases. Again though, you don't have the self awareness to recognize what you are doing.

[thedangerouskitchen]

The BWGC has been decimated with their OWN "facts"... so now they deflect.

[vcsgrizzfan]

The BWGC has been decimated with their OWN "facts"... so now they deflect.

We have handed you your ass. Again. You just don't recognize is so YOU deflect.

[thedangerouskitchen]

No, you don't care about advanced metrics because you are too dumb to understand them. They are critically important to getting a better understanding of the game.

They are NOT "facts", meatball... they are based on made-up formulas using randon/arbitrary numbers AND in one instance at least, CHANGED because it didn't yield the result the designer wanted.

PS:

Non all-star BJ in 93 w/MJ: 14.7 PER / .570% TS% / .537 eFG%
All-star BJ in 94 w/out MJ: 14.5 PER / .547 TS% / .505 eFG%

Now STHU meatball.

Of course they are facts. They are just facts you don't understand.

I place almost no relevance to PER as it has by far the least amount of value, especially in assessing defense. Great defenders like Bruce Bowen and Dennis Rodman have terrible PERs because they didn't block shots or get steals. PER has the least amount of correlation to overall performance and impact on the game of the advanced metrics. Frankly, I don't even include it when I look at overall performance. That lack of correlation to overall performance makes it of limited usefulness. I don't even consider PER an advanced metric.

But TS% Efg%, box score +/- and many other advanced metrics are critical to understanding the game and an individual player's impact. If you don't pay attention to those, you are just working with more limited information and making less informed assessments as a result.

By the way, as you try to defend MJ in the Armstrong case, your hypocrisy shows in spades. LeBron had Mo having by far his best seasons in Efg%, TS%, win shares, win shares per minute, VORP etc, and yet you denigrate LeBron's impact on Mo.

You always to try to suck and whistle at the same time when conflict arises against your biases. Again though, you don't have the self awareness to recognize what you are doing.

1993 non all-star BJ (w/Jordan) >>> advanced metrics (ie; "made up" stats) than 1994 all-star BJ w/out MJ.

But, uh, er, um, huurrrr durrr.

at meatball getting decimated with his own argument.

[vcsgrizzfan]

They are NOT "facts", meatball... they are based on made-up formulas using randon/arbitrary numbers AND in one instance at least, CHANGED because it didn't yield the result the designer wanted.

PS:

Non all-star BJ in 93 w/MJ: 14.7 PER / .570% TS% / .537 eFG%
All-star BJ in 94 w/out MJ: 14.5 PER / .547 TS% / .505 eFG%

Now STHU meatball.

Of course they are facts. They are just facts you don't understand.

I place almost no relevance to PER as it has by far the least amount of value, especially in assessing defense. Great defenders like Bruce Bowen and Dennis Rodman have terrible PERs because they didn't block shots or get steals. PER has the least amount of correlation to overall performance and impact on the game of the advanced metrics. Frankly, I don't even include it when I look at overall performance. That lack of correlation to overall performance makes it of limited usefulness. I don't even consider PER an advanced metric.

But TS% Efg%, box score +/- and many other advanced metrics are critical to understanding the game and an individual player's impact. If you don't pay attention to those, you are just working with more limited information and making less informed assessments as a result.

By the way, as you try to defend MJ in the Armstrong case, your hypocrisy shows in spades. LeBron had Mo having by far his best seasons in Efg%, TS%, win shares, win shares per minute, VORP etc, and yet you denigrate LeBron's impact on Mo.

You always to try to suck and whistle at the same time when conflict arises against your biases. Again though, you don't have the self awareness to recognize what you are doing.

1993 non all-star BJ (w/Jordan) >>> advanced metrics (ie; "made up" stats) than 1994 all-star BJ w/out MJ.

But, uh, er, um, huurrrr durrr.

at meatball getting decimated with his own argument.

Dude. Did you even read what I wrote? Especially the part about how much of a hypocrite you are because you defend MJ in the BJ case and yet refuse to acknowledge that LeBron had a bigger impact on Mo. You try to suck and whistle at the same time.

[Da Stars.]

TDK.

[vcsgrizzfan]

Mo Williams.

Two seasons with LeBron:

TS% - .588 and .580
Career average .532. Career average without LeBron - approximately .515% to .520%

Win Share in two seasons with LeBron: 16.5
Entire career: 40.
41% of Mo's entire career win shares were in the 150 games he played with LeBron. He played 818 games in his career. So 41% of his career win shares were achieved in 18% of his games, the ones he played with LeBron. In 668 games without LeBron, his win shares total 23.5. Sooooo, his Win shares per game were .11 with LeBron, and .035 without LeBron. Over 3x higher with LeBron than without him. Does that matter?

Box Score +/-
In his two seasons with LeBron, his box score +/- averaged 2.1 on the positive side of the ledger.
For his career, he has a negative box score +/- of -0.3. Ex out the years with LeBron, and it is approximately -1.

VORP
Two seasons with LeBron, he has a VORP of 5.4.
For his career, he has a total VORP of 10. For his career, more than half of his career VORP is from the 150 games he played with LeBron.

But of course, none of that matters does it TDK?

[thedangerouskitchen]

Of course they are facts. They are just facts you don't understand.

I place almost no relevance to PER as it has by far the least amount of value, especially in assessing defense. Great defenders like Bruce Bowen and Dennis Rodman have terrible PERs because they didn't block shots or get steals. PER has the least amount of correlation to overall performance and impact on the game of the advanced metrics. Frankly, I don't even include it when I look at overall performance. That lack of correlation to overall performance makes it of limited usefulness. I don't even consider PER an advanced metric.

But TS% Efg%, box score +/- and many other advanced metrics are critical to understanding the game and an individual player's impact. If you don't pay attention to those, you are just working with more limited information and making less informed assessments as a result.

By the way, as you try to defend MJ in the Armstrong case, your hypocrisy shows in spades. LeBron had Mo having by far his best seasons in Efg%, TS%, win shares, win shares per minute, VORP etc, and yet you denigrate LeBron's impact on Mo.

You always to try to suck and whistle at the same time when conflict arises against your biases. Again though, you don't have the self awareness to recognize what you are doing.

1993 non all-star BJ (w/Jordan) >>> advanced metrics (ie; "made up" stats) than 1994 all-star BJ w/out MJ.

But, uh, er, um, huurrrr durrr.

at meatball getting decimated with his own argument.

Dude. Did you even read what I wrote? Especially the part about how much of a hypocrite you are because you defend MJ in the BJ case and yet refuse to acknowledge that LeBron had a bigger impact on Mo. You try to suck and whistle at the same time.

Dude, I'm using advanced metrics because YOU and the other LeTots ITT are using it in defense of LeBron. In other words I'm beating you like a drum with your own argument, and you're too stupid to see it.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Mo Williams.

Two seasons with LeBron:

TS% - .588 and .580
Career average .532. Career average without LeBron - approximately .515% to .520%

Win Share in two seasons with LeBron: 16.5
Entire career: 40.
41% of Mo's entire career win shares were in the 150 games he played with LeBron. He played 818 games in his career. So 41% of his career win shares were achieved in 18% of his games, the ones he played with LeBron. In 668 games without LeBron, his win shares total 23.5. Sooooo, his Win shares per game were .11 with LeBron, and .035 without LeBron. Over 3x higher with LeBron than without him. Does that matter?

Box Score +/-
In his two seasons with LeBron, his box score +/- averaged 2.1 on the positive side of the ledger.
For his career, he has a negative box score +/- of -0.3. Ex out the years with LeBron, and it is approximately -1.

VORP
Two seasons with LeBron, he has a VORP of 5.4.
For his career, he has a total VORP of 10. For his career, more than half of his career VORP is from the 150 games he played with LeBron.

But of course, none of that matters does it TDK?

Now do 93 "non all star" BJ vs. 94 all-star withOut MJ, meatball.

I'll wait.

[PhutureDynasty]

[vcsgrizzfan]

1993 non all-star BJ (w/Jordan) >>> advanced metrics (ie; "made up" stats) than 1994 all-star BJ w/out MJ.

But, uh, er, um, huurrrr durrr.

at meatball getting decimated with his own argument.

Dude. Did you even read what I wrote? Especially the part about how much of a hypocrite you are because you defend MJ in the BJ case and yet refuse to acknowledge that LeBron had a bigger impact on Mo. You try to suck and whistle at the same time.

Dude, I'm using advanced metrics because YOU and the other LeTots ITT are using it in defense of LeBron. In other words I'm beating you like a drum with your own argument, and you're too stupid to see it.

In your dreams. The impact LeBron had on Mo's career (which I just demonstrated in the post above yours) dwarfs anything MJ ever did on BJ. BJ's best seasons on many advanced metrics were achieved without MJ, both in 1995 and his first year with the Warriors. And yet, you denigrate the impact LeBron had on Mo, and try to glorify the impact MJ had on BJ. You just don't recognize your bias.

[elartman1973]

As a millionaire who is living his best life.
I was also suffering at a time and knows how hard it is to pay bills. I'II be giving grands each to assist the first 10 lucky people to hit me up with "GOD DID" love
y’all