Big Game James Worthy on today's NBA

[zombiesonics]

Someone is triggered... ^^^^



Face FACTS: NBA HOFERS (like Shaq, Worthy, etc.) have more knowledge about the game in their pinky finger than you and all the other arm-chair 'experts' will ever have in your entire life.

Discuss why this angers you.

Ah yes, that’s the TDK that we all know. Gets destroyed and then accuses you of being triggered.

Good ‘ol Drunko.

[Bush4Ever.]

The funny thing is that there are several old school legends (Larry Bird is one, Jerry West is another I distinctly remember) who have said almost the exact opposite of what Worthy said.

Are they right too?

Or maybe...just maybe...emotional and personality issues sometimes get in the way of analysis, and analyzing the game doesn't require the exact same set of skills as playing a game that requires 99th+ percentile natural athletic ability (or 99th+ percentile height).

[Sudanese Sensation]

Shaq was a horrible foul shooter. There's no proof taking granny shots at the foul line would have improved his percentage. Didn't Wilt try it? All he would have done is look silly. Look at LeBron. He's a mediocre foul shooter. He even had Ray Allen helping him. It is what it is.

[Bush4Ever.]

Shaq was a horrible foul shooter. There's no proof taking granny shots at the foul line would have improved his percentage. Didn't Wilt try it? All he would have done is look silly. Look at LeBron. He's a mediocre foul shooter. He even had Ray Allen helping him. It is what it is.

To me, trying and failing is not sinful, but refusing to try because it looked "girly and silly" is.

If Shaq shot 65 percent from the line instead of 52 percent he would have been on the cusp of 30K career points and a 25 PPG average instead of 28.5K and 23.7 PPG

Or averaging 31 points per game in 2000 instead of 29.7

And that's at 65 percent and not taking into account any indirect scoring impact that might have come with teams being forced to play him a bit more honestly.

[Sudanese Sensation]

Shaq was a horrible foul shooter. There's no proof taking granny shots at the foul line would have improved his percentage. Didn't Wilt try it? All he would have done is look silly. Look at LeBron. He's a mediocre foul shooter. He even had Ray Allen helping him. It is what it is.

To me, trying and failing is not sinful, but refusing to try because it looked "girly and silly" is.

If Shaq shot 65 percent from the line instead of 52 percent he would have been on the cusp of 30K career points and a 25 PPG average instead of 28.5K and 23.7 PPG

Or averaging 31 points per game in 2000 instead of 29.7

And that's at 65 percent and not taking into account any indirect scoring impact that might have come with teams being forced to play him a bit more honestly.

Apropos of nothing I watched Dwight Howard shoot free throws in a gym with no pressure. He was still only hitting three out of every five or so.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Someone is triggered... ^^^^



Face FACTS: NBA HOFERS (like Shaq, Worthy, etc.) have more knowledge about the game in their pinky finger than you and all the other arm-chair 'experts' will ever have in your entire life.

Discuss why this angers you.

Ah yes, that’s the TDK that we all know. Gets destroyed and then accuses you of being triggered.

Good ‘ol Drunko.

You think you know more about the game than HOF players, yet I got destroyed????

Pardon me while I at your foolishness.

[LeBronMonsterDunk]

I agree with TDK, you gotta trust the HOF players opinions as fact.

[PhutureDynasty]

I agree with TDK, you gotta trust the HOF players opinions as fact.

Appealing to authority muddies the waters as much as us arguing over GOAT.

[Uncontroversial]

damn TDK got throated in this thread like he does by his domestic partner

[LNS]

You think you know more about the game than HOF players…

Pardon me while I at your foolishness.

”It's funny how the game has changed. And my thinking about it. I was really worried—back sixteen, seventeen years ago—that the little guy didn't have a spot in the N.B.A. anymore: it was just going to be the big guards like Magic Johnson. But then players started shooting more threes and spacing the court, and everyone wants small guards now. Watching these kids play now, I'm like everybody else: Wow, man. They can really shoot! They have more freedom to get to the basket. The ball moves a little better. These kids are shooting from farther, with more accuracy. Now some teams shoot up around thirty threes a game. My era, you always think that's the greatest era. But I'm not so sure anymore.”

-Larry Bird

[americaninfidel]

I agree with TDK, you gotta trust the HOF players opinions as fact.

Appealing to authority muddies the waters as much as us arguing over GOAT.

Zeke just hates Jordan and this is a thinly-veiled shot at him.

[PhutureDynasty]

I agree with TDK, you gotta trust the HOF players opinions as fact.

Appealing to authority muddies the waters as much as us arguing over GOAT.

Zeke just hates Jordan and this is a thinly-veiled shot at him.

Yea definitely true.

I do think Jordan is the GOAT but he's in the same tier as. Kareem, LeBron, and Russell.

[vcsgrizzfan]

Grizz and Rob writing fucking novels ITT

True. Pearls before swine.

I'm catching up here, but it's always nice to see folk quoting Jesus.



Grizz I'm curious, since you are likely one of the two most knowledgeable posters here when it comes to hockey, how do you think Gretzky would fare in today's NHL? (I know we disagree on him, and you have Orr on top, but just wondering.)

Hi infidel. Hope you are well young man.

There is no era in the NHL past, present or future where I don't believe Gretzky is a great player. Period. He had the hockey equivalent of "court vision" that has never been seen. In today's NHL, he's still winning scoring titles, but his defensive deficiencies (especially once he reached 30 and started to float more on that end) get a little more magnified.

I do believe Orr is the best hockey player I have ever witnessed. He was at once an extremely good defensive defenseman while at the same time being the best offensive defenseman the game has ever seen by a country mile. There were times it literally looked like he was just playing a kids version of shinny/keepaway on the ice when he was killing penalties. It is tragic that knee injuries limited his longevity.

The next two greatest in my mind are Gretzky and Lemieux, with all due respect to Gordie Howe. Their games were different with Mario being a beast physically for his era while obviously Gretzky was pretty slight. But both could fill the net and were great playmakers. Lemieux was more complete but at his peak, Gretzky was an incredible offensive juggernaut.

Gretzky was blessed to have much better teammates than Lemieux. Messier, Kurri, Coffey, Anderson, Fuhr, Lowe et. al. were legitimate HOFers without Gretzky (as opposed to half the HOFers that Russell dragged into the HOF in basketball). It is a minor blemish on Gretzky's resume that he never won a cup and only made one final after he left the Oilers. They won another Stanley Cup before the core was broken up and of course Messier went on to win one with the Rangers.

Another thing that tends to be overlooked with Gretzky is that he played in what was probably the era with the peak goal scoring around the NHL. The current era with MUCH BIGGER goalie pads and far superior goaltending in general has far fewer goals scored. Era adjusted, Ovechkin has already surpassed Gretzky's goal scsoring records by a reasonable margin.

I don't want to take anything away from Gretzky, because he was an incredible player and second/third on my GOAT list, but some of his numbers are inflated by the era and there is a tendency to overlook his flaws.

[americaninfidel]

True. Pearls before swine.

I'm catching up here, but it's always nice to see folk quoting Jesus.



Grizz I'm curious, since you are likely one of the two most knowledgeable posters here when it comes to hockey, how do you think Gretzky would fare in today's NHL? (I know we disagree on him, and you have Orr on top, but just wondering.)

Hi infidel. Hope you are well young man.

There is no era in the NHL past, present or future where I don't believe Gretzky is a great player. Period. He had the hockey equivalent of "court vision" that has never been seen. In today's NHL, he's still winning scoring titles, but his defensive deficiencies (especially once he reached 30 and started to float more on that end) get a little more magnified.

I do believe Orr is the best hockey player I have ever witnessed. He was at once an extremely good defensive defenseman while at the same time being the best offensive defenseman the game has ever seen by a country mile. There were times it literally looked like he was just playing a kids version of shinny/keepaway on the ice when he was killing penalties. It is tragic that knee injuries limited his longevity.

The next two greatest in my mind are Gretzky and Lemieux, with all due respect to Gordie Howe. Their games were different with Mario being a beast physically for his era while obviously Gretzky was pretty slight. But both could fill the net and were great playmakers. Lemieux was more complete but at his peak, Gretzky was an incredible offensive juggernaut.

Gretzky was blessed to have much better teammates than Lemieux. Messier, Kurri, Coffey, Anderson, Fuhr, Lowe et. al. were legitimate HOFers without Gretzky (as opposed to half the HOFers that Russell dragged into the HOF in basketball). It is a minor blemish on Gretzky's resume that he never won a cup and only made one final after he left the Oilers. They won another Stanley Cup before the core was broken up and of course Messier went on to win one with the Rangers.

Another thing that tends to be overlooked with Gretzky is that he played in what was probably the era with the peak goal scoring around the NHL. The current era with MUCH BIGGER goalie pads and far superior goaltending in general has far fewer goals scored. Era adjusted, Ovechkin has already surpassed Gretzky's goal scsoring records by a reasonable margin.

I don't want to take anything away from Gretzky, because he was an incredible player and second/third on my GOAT list, but some of his numbers are inflated by the era and there is a tendency to overlook his flaws.

*Like

Thanks sir.

[thedangerouskitchen]

I agree with TDK, you gotta trust the HOF players opinions as fact.

So Shaq and Worthy have personal beefs with today's players/generation that impact their opinions, like Isiah had against Jordan (which is the ONLY reason he made such a foolish comment)... is that what you're saying?

Plus it's not just Shaq and Worthy... lots of former players / coaches feel the same way about today's zero-contact / soft / 3-point chucker league; however only a teeny-weenie super-small minority (like Isiah) are dumb enough to rank LeCommie as the GOAT over MJ.

Perspective helps.

[Bush4Ever.]

TDK knows more about the game than Isiah Thomas.

Pure comedy.

[Sudanese Sensation]

TDK knows more about the game than Isiah Thomas.

Pure comedy.

Live by appeal to authority. Die by appeal to authority.

[Bush4Ever.]

Live by appeal to authority. Die by appeal to authority.

He moved to using appeal to majority.

It's like in Pokemon when your Pokemon faints and you have to bring out another one to continue the fight.

Except instead of Pokemon its completely remedial logical fallacies.

[thedangerouskitchen]

TDK knows more about the game than Isiah Thomas.

Pure comedy.

Only an uneducated hoops fan doesn't understand that Isiah's motive (for saying what he said) stems from a grudge he's held against Jordan for decades.

MJ = better Scorer, more Efficient player, better Rebounder (pound-for-pound), better Defender, better Leader, better Winner, etc., etc., etc.

Even you don't rank LeCommie as the GOAT over Jordan, as your boy Isiah seems to think.



Stop embarrassing yourself.

[LeBronMonsterDunk]

Someone is triggered... ^^^^



Face FACTS: NBA HOFERS (like Isiah Thomas.) have more knowledge about the game in their pinky finger than you and all the other arm-chair 'experts' will ever have in your entire life.

Discuss why this angers you.