rileymartin wrote:Brady is the best QB of this generation, and probably number 2 all time...But, with the rules changes that have really favored the quarterbacks, there is no chance he will ever surpass Joe Montana...
What do rules changes have to do with anything? Comparatively speaking, Brady has been just as statistically dominant as Montana relative to their peers, he's been a more successful regular season QB, and he's AT LEAST as successful as Montana in the playoffs.
If anything, they're 1A/1B. Montana doesn't have a clear advantage anywhere.
What rules changes LOL? Jesus dude, did you just start watching football yesterday?
Where did I say "what rules changes"?
I asked what the changes have to do with being able to compare the two against their peers.
Your reading comprehension really sucks, Riley.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are dumber than that.
Robceltsfan wrote:
What do rules changes have to do with anything? Comparatively speaking, Brady has been just as statistically dominant as Montana relative to their peers, he's been a more successful regular season QB, and he's AT LEAST as successful as Montana in the playoffs.
If anything, they're 1A/1B. Montana doesn't have a clear advantage anywhere.
What rules changes LOL? Jesus dude, did you just start watching football yesterday?
Where did I say "what rules changes"?
I asked what the changes have to do with being able to compare the two against their peers.
Your reading comprehension really sucks, Riley.
Tom Brady would be a great QB in any era, but, the reality is, his stats are inflated to where they are because the league has gone out of its way to make them easily inflated (No pun intended)...If Brady and his WR's had to deal with the physicality of the game the way Joe did, things would be different for him...
rileymartin wrote:
What rules changes LOL? Jesus dude, did you just start watching football yesterday?
Where did I say "what rules changes"?
I asked what the changes have to do with being able to compare the two against their peers.
Your reading comprehension really sucks, Riley.
Tom Brady would be a great QB in any era, but, the reality is, his stats are inflated to where they are because the league has gone out of its way to make them easily inflated (No pun intended)...If Brady and his WR's had to deal with the physicality of the game the way Joe did, things would be different for him...
Look at you stooping to TDK-level trolling to try and win an argument.
The ONLY way you can compare players in different eras is how they did relative to their peers. Brady is on-par or better than Montana in that respect.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are dumber than that.
Robceltsfan wrote:
Where did I say "what rules changes"?
I asked what the changes have to do with being able to compare the two against their peers.
Your reading comprehension really sucks, Riley.
Tom Brady would be a great QB in any era, but, the reality is, his stats are inflated to where they are because the league has gone out of its way to make them easily inflated (No pun intended)...If Brady and his WR's had to deal with the physicality of the game the way Joe did, things would be different for him...
Look at you stooping to TDK-level trolling to try and win an argument.
The ONLY way you can compare players in different eras is how they did relative to their peers. Brady is on-par or better than Montana in that respect.
That is simply not true...if it were, then you would have to say that LeBron is better than Jordan...pretty dumb actually...
rileymartin wrote:
Tom Brady would be a great QB in any era, but, the reality is, his stats are inflated to where they are because the league has gone out of its way to make them easily inflated (No pun intended)...If Brady and his WR's had to deal with the physicality of the game the way Joe did, things would be different for him...
Look at you stooping to TDK-level trolling to try and win an argument.
The ONLY way you can compare players in different eras is how they did relative to their peers. Brady is on-par or better than Montana in that respect.
That is simply not true...if it were, then you would have to say that LeBron is better than Jordan...pretty dumb actually...
Joe Montana changed the game...
How so? Jordan was far more statistically dominating (particularly with regards to scoring titles) than Lebron is/has been. And he won at a better rate in the playoffs.
Your argument holds no water...
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are dumber than that.
If any QB from that era did, it was Dan Marino...or even Elway or Warren Moon. Montana was fantastically efficient...which was continued and in some ways done better by Steve Young after him....but Montana didn't change the QB position like others.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are dumber than that.
Robceltsfan wrote:
In 2008 the Pats ran the ball 513 times for 2,278 yards and 21 TDs. The 4th most attempts and 6th most yards in the NFL. They threw the ball 534 times for 3,569 yards...12th in attempts and 12th in yards. Keep in mind, the '08 team featured both Randy Moss and Wes Welker...so that was one of the more solid receiving casts in the NFL....and all they mustered was the 12th best passing offense.
In 2007...well...the Pats went 16-0 and Brady had what is likely the greatest offensive season ever. He threw for 29 more TDs than Cassell did the following season and had over 1,100 more yards.
As for this year....they averaged 20.3 ppg and 211 passing yards in the first 4 games....and 29.8 ppg and exactly 300 passing yards per game in the 8 played with Brady.
DEMONSTRABLY better in both scenarios.
If you're trying to argue Brady > Cassel, I would agree 100%... but you canNot ignore the fact that even a scrub like Cassel had a banner year in NE, while back-up QB Jimmy Garoppolo looked like, well, Tom Brady in this system.
Neither of those opinions are true.
Truth be told, if Brady were a Bear and he'd had the same career as he's had in NE...you'd need a whole team of people to dislodged Brady's dick from your homer-esque mouth. But alas...he's not a Chicago player...so for you it's just another ho-hum bum.
Not a chance, fool... the Bears' have had some horrific Offensive Lines and poor-to-decent (at best) WR's the last 10 years or so, not to mention zero stability from a Head Coach standpoint.
Oh, and BTW... Garoppolo put up QB Ratings of 106 and 135 during his 2 starts this year... very much Tom Brady-esque.
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
rileymartin wrote:Brady is the best QB of this generation, and probably number 2 all time...But, with the rules changes that have really favored the quarterbacks, there is no chance he will ever surpass Joe Montana...
What do rules changes have to do with anything? Comparatively speaking, Brady has been just as statistically dominant as Montana relative to their peers, he's been a more successful regular season QB, and he's AT LEAST as successful as Montana in the playoffs.
If anything, they're 1A/1B. Montana doesn't have a clear advantage anywhere.
In Montana's day you could literally kill a QB and it was legal. Nowadays they protect QB's like babies. That's just a fact... and if you truly don't know why/how that helps a QB (especially someone who is not mobile like Brady) then you probably shouldn't be discussing football.
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
rileymartin wrote:Brady is the best QB of this generation, and probably number 2 all time...But, with the rules changes that have really favored the quarterbacks, there is no chance he will ever surpass Joe Montana...
What do rules changes have to do with anything? Comparatively speaking, Brady has been just as statistically dominant as Montana relative to their peers, he's been a more successful regular season QB, and he's AT LEAST as successful as Montana in the playoffs.
If anything, they're 1A/1B. Montana doesn't have a clear advantage anywhere.
In Montana's day you could literally kill a QB and it was legal. Nowadays they protect QB's like babies. That's just a fact... and if you truly don't know why/how that helps a QB (especially someone who is not mobile like Brady) then you probably shouldn't be discussing football.
60s and 70s players were a lot less protected than players from the 80s and 90s.
If we are going to award players on how "rough" their era was then I'm sure those 60s 70s players have an edge on all the competition.
Robceltsfan wrote:
What do rules changes have to do with anything? Comparatively speaking, Brady has been just as statistically dominant as Montana relative to their peers, he's been a more successful regular season QB, and he's AT LEAST as successful as Montana in the playoffs.
If anything, they're 1A/1B. Montana doesn't have a clear advantage anywhere.
In Montana's day you could literally kill a QB and it was legal. Nowadays they protect QB's like babies. That's just a fact... and if you truly don't know why/how that helps a QB (especially someone who is not mobile like Brady) then you probably shouldn't be discussing football.
60s and 70s players were a lot less protected than players from the 80s and 90s.
If we are going to award players on how "rough" their era was then I'm sure those 60s 70s players have an edge on all the competition.
Fine... name a QB from the 60's / 70's who has the resume of Montana or Brady and state your case.
Regardless, the way QB's are pampered and coddled today / Brady's era is nothing like the 80's / 90's. Here's just one -1- example of what QB's faced during Montana's day (fast forward to the 1:15 mark):
[youtube]Vuj_NF7gteQ[/youtube]
How much EASIER is it for a guy like Brady to produce today, knowing he's protected like a little baby? Imagine Montana playing in this cream puff era.
WoW... !!
Last edited by thedangerouskitchen on Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
thedangerouskitchen wrote:
In Montana's day you could literally kill a QB and it was legal. Nowadays they protect QB's like babies. That's just a fact... and if you truly don't know why/how that helps a QB (especially someone who is not mobile like Brady) then you probably shouldn't be discussing football.
60s and 70s players were a lot less protected than players from the 80s and 90s.
If we are going to award players on how "rough" their era was then I'm sure those 60s 70s players have an edge on all the competition.
Fine... name a QB from the 60's / 70's who has the resume of Montana or Brady and state your case.
elmerjfudd wrote:
60s and 70s players were a lot less protected than players from the 80s and 90s.
If we are going to award players on how "rough" their era was then I'm sure those 60s 70s players have an edge on all the competition.
Fine... name a QB from the 60's / 70's who has the resume of Montana or Brady and state your case.
Johnny U.
Probably a Top 5 QB of all-time... but only 2 Championships so he's not on Montana / Brady's level on the GOAT list, even with the era argument factored in (and Johnny's era wasn't all that much tougher than Montana's, if at all, when you consider the abuse QB's took relative to today's cream puff era).
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
First of all the Patriots went 11-5 in 08 without Brady not 10-6. Only reason they didn't make the playoffs is because the AFC happened to be extremely stacked that year.
Patriots went 3-1 without Brady this season so who cares how their offense did if they were winning.
The fact is the Patriots have always been able to win football games when Brady plays horribly or doesn't play at all which is something most star quarterbacks haven't been able to say unfortunately.
The fact that this upsets people so much is curious to say least.
876Stephen wrote:First of all the Patriots went 11-5 in 08 without Brady not 10-6. Only reason they didn't make the playoffs is because the AFC happened to be extremely stacked that year.
Patriots went 3-1 without Brady this season so who cares how their offense did if they were winning.
The fact is the Patriots have always been able to win football games when Brady plays horribly or doesn't play at all which is something most star quarterbacks haven't been able to say unfortunately.
The fact that this upsets people so much is curious to say least.
Exactly right... and on top of that, the Patriots had to cheat to win at least 2 SB's (that we know of, anyway) WITH Brady playing.
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
Robceltsfan wrote:And Joe Montana didn't change the game...
If any QB from that era did, it was Dan Marino...or even Elway or Warren Moon. Montana was fantastically efficient...which was continued and in some ways done better by Steve Young after him....but Montana didn't change the QB position like others.
Marino, no running game. Elway, no running game hardly until he won B2B. Moon, LOL. You are correct, Montana did not change the game. Not sure of the year but not being able to hand check beyond 5 yards changed the rules more than Montana and it was before Montana.
876Stephen wrote:First of all the Patriots went 11-5 in 08 without Brady not 10-6. Only reason they didn't make the playoffs is because the AFC happened to be extremely stacked that year.
Patriots went 3-1 without Brady this season so who cares how their offense did if they were winning.
The fact is the Patriots have always been able to win football games when Brady plays horribly or doesn't play at all which is something most star quarterbacks haven't been able to say unfortunately.
The fact that this upsets people so much is curious to say least.
Yeah nobody's taking anything away from Belicheck. He's up there with the greatest coaches of all time.
thedangerouskitchen wrote:
Fine... name a QB from the 60's / 70's who has the resume of Montana or Brady and state your case.
Johnny U.
Probably a Top 5 QB of all-time... but only 2 Championships so he's not on Montana / Brady's level on the GOAT list, even with the era argument factored in (and Johnny's era wasn't all that much tougher than Montana's, if at all, when you consider the abuse QB's took relative to today's cream puff era).
Johnny U won 3 championships
was 7 time all pro (almost more than Brady and Montana combined)
and a 4 time league MVP. (as much as Brady and Montana combined)
Lead the league in passing twice as much as Brady and Montana combined
And by your own admission he played in a tougher era, so I'd assume its the 1 less championship is what doesn't make his resume as good as Brady and Montana.
