You've absolutely shit on Lebron for his mid-range shooting.....and yet just showed that he's basically on-par with Iverson. And I'm somehow supposed to believe that that undersized little shit is going to score 43 PPG in today's NBA despite Lebron being a better 3-point shooter and much better/bigger at the rim?
You sir, are completely full of shit.
...and YOU called Iverson a "low efficient chucker" for actually shooter BETTER than LeBron from 10 feet to the 3PT line.
What's that make you, full of wisdom and insight?
"Old Man" LeBron is shooting 77% from 0-3 feet the past 5 seasons... much better than he did the first 10 years of his career/prime. Thus, it stands to reason Iverson (one of the greatest slashers ever) would increase his both his Efficiency AND his Shot Volume at the rim if he played in this era.
The result of fewer shots taken from 10 - 3PT range and more shots from 0-3 feet (in an era where it's MUCH easier to Score at the rim than it was in AI's day) suggests that Iverson would indeed Score a LOT more points at a better overall clip today.
What evidence do you have that it would be "tougher" for a lightning quick Slasher to score when no one protects the rim???
Exacly... none. You're grasping at straws if you believe that nonsense. Hell, today you have 10th men off the bench dropping 20 a game on any given night; yet one the greatest Scorers in league history would somehow have a more difficult time?
Say it ain't so rob.
I didn't say it would be tougher.....I said you're a moron for thinking ANYONE can average 43 PPG in today's NBA (without simply ball hogging so much that it's detrimental to team winning).
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
Bush4Ever. wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 4:18 pm
Jordan...beats Chris Mullin by 4.5 points a game in 1992.
Jordan...beats Kevin Durant by 17 points a game in 2024.
No.
Iverson beats Gilbert Arenas by four points a game in 2006.
Iverson beats Steph Curry by 15 points a game in 2024.
No.
For all the numbers, breakdown of skills, etc...we do on this topic, it really ought to be simple when you view it through that lens, especially with the magnitudes of proposed difference.
at you cherry-picking seasons... and FTR prime Mullen would average 35 a game in this era... especially with his lights-out shooting.
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
On the notion that no one defends the bucket in the NBA anymore.
2023/24 - Blocks per Game.
1- OKC at 6.7
2- Boston at 6.5
3- Memphis at 6.2
15- Clippers at 5.2
Last - Miami at 3.1
2005-2006 (not cherry picked by the way - the prior year was a bit better and the next year was a bit worse). Data only goes back to 2005 on this site.
1. Clippers at 6.1
2. Utah at 6.0
3. Minny at 5.7
15 - Atlanta at 4.8
Last - Milwaukee at 3.2
More shots are being blocked today than 20 years ago. And that is with far more shots being taken from deep where it is significantly less likely shots will be blocked. The bucket is being guarded just fine and this notion that Iverson would be waltzing in anytime he wants is just not accurate. He would score less than he did in his day for a few reasons. He would not get as many minutes as a matter of course. No one is. Second, in today's more efficient game with more emphasis on the ability to shoot the 3, he wouldn't be given as many touches, and if he insisted on taking them, he would see more time on the pine thinking about it. Third, on virtually every team today, there are multiple guys who can shoot from deep and they will get touches and shots, which just leaves less for a guy like Iverson who basically had the green light to shoot whenever the heck he wanted.
_Vcsgrizzfan_ wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 5:58 pm
In 1994, John Starks was an allstar and scored 19 points a game. John Starks is a 10th or 11th man on most teams in today's NBA, if that.
John Starks was working as a grocery bagger at a Safeway in Oklahoma when he decided to take up basketball. He then joined the Knicks and became their second best player. True story.
Bush4Ever. wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 4:54 pm
Michael Jordan from 1989 to 1993 (best years) beats the number two scorer by 3.4, 2.6, 2.5, 2.1, and 2.7 points per game.
Beats the second scorer in the 2024 NBA by 14 points. Iverson beats said player by 12 points a game.
Amazing!
90's >>>>> today's sissy league, as some of us have been saying... now you're starting to catch on.
PS: Jordan averaged 37 a game in an era where it was much tougher for perimeter players to score. Only a novice hoops fans thinks he wouldn't drop 40 a game in his sleep in today's zero-perimeter contact / zero rim protection era.
PSS: This thread is about Iverson, a better pure Scorer than anyone in the legue today. Stop deflecting.
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
zombiesonics wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 5:01 pm
In 1991, MJ averaged 5 more PPG than 5’9” 155 pound Michael Adams
This guy
Why do you continously mistake "physical stature" with a player's ability to excel at basketball??? Luka looks like a marshmallow YET he's the best Scorer in the game today. Jokic's physique resembles Greg Ostertag YET he's the best all-around Offensive player in the game.
Stop being silly. You have no point.
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
_Vcsgrizzfan_ wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 5:50 pm
On the notion that no one defends the bucket in the NBA anymore.
2023/24 - Blocks per Game.
1- OKC at 6.7
2- Boston at 6.5
3- Memphis at 6.2
15- Clippers at 5.2
Last - Miami at 3.1
2005-2006 (not cherry picked by the way - the prior year was a bit better and the next year was a bit worse). Data only goes back to 2005 on this site.
1. Clippers at 6.1
2. Utah at 6.0
3. Minny at 5.7
15 - Atlanta at 4.8
Last - Milwaukee at 3.2
More shots are being blocked today than 20 years ago. And that is with far more shots being taken from deep where it is significantly less likely shots will be blocked. The bucket is being guarded just fine and this notion that Iverson would be waltzing in anytime he wants is just not accurate. He would score less than he did in his day for a few reasons. He would not get as many minutes as a matter of course. No one is. Second, in today's more efficient game with more emphasis on the ability to shoot the 3, he wouldn't be given as many touches, and if he insisted on taking them, he would see more time on the pine thinking about it. Third, on virtually every team today, there are multiple guys who can shoot from deep and they will get touches and shots, which just leaves less for a guy like Iverson who basically had the green light to shoot whenever the heck he wanted.
Bottom line: You are completely blind (or a fool) if you think the rim/paint is defended today anywhere remotely close to the degree that it was defended in the 80's/90's, and probably the first half of the 00's.
PS: Giannis shoots 29% from 3. Luka is a below (league) average 3-point shooter for his career. DeRozen shoots 30%. MANY other prominent Scorers in today's NBA (Shai, Booker, Mitchell, Joker, etc.) are just average shooters from deep... so this notion of having to be a threat from deep is nonsense.
Iverson off the dribble would be breaking ankles by the dozen in today's league... and he'd have a virtual cakewalk to the basket 75% of the time.
Facts.
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
It's pretty much a fact that if a player can average 15-20 PPG in a slow-paced, much more physical league than he would easily average 20-25 PPG in a much faster paced / zero contact era.
Anyone who denies this fact has clearly never actually played the game.
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
Titan18 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 6:13 pm
Tdk does it again
I guess just like when you argue with him about "insert Chicago geography or restaurant or Chicago whatever here" and go back and forth for several pages? Or is that "different" because? No. It's not different. TDK is about as far from a puppet master as you can get. On this particular topic (modern hoops in general versus when your Bulls were great and led by MJ), you happen to like his position. You loved the Bulls and MJ and dislike LeBron and your current Bulls are a joke so that colors your view of modern hoops, whether you are aware of it or not. TDK is another version of Artie, but espousing different things. They are essentially mirror images and neither is some great puppet master. Hey, who knows. Maybe if you were born and raised in Orlando, you'd think Artie is a great puppet master!! But no, they are just insecure, have no self awareness and the emotional maturity of toddlers.
And for the record, I have successfully trolled you far more about Babe Ruth than TDK has ever successfully trolled Bush, rob and I.
_Vcsgrizzfan_ wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 5:50 pm
On the notion that no one defends the bucket in the NBA anymore.
2023/24 - Blocks per Game.
1- OKC at 6.7
2- Boston at 6.5
3- Memphis at 6.2
15- Clippers at 5.2
Last - Miami at 3.1
2005-2006 (not cherry picked by the way - the prior year was a bit better and the next year was a bit worse). Data only goes back to 2005 on this site.
1. Clippers at 6.1
2. Utah at 6.0
3. Minny at 5.7
15 - Atlanta at 4.8
Last - Milwaukee at 3.2
More shots are being blocked today than 20 years ago. And that is with far more shots being taken from deep where it is significantly less likely shots will be blocked. The bucket is being guarded just fine and this notion that Iverson would be waltzing in anytime he wants is just not accurate. He would score less than he did in his day for a few reasons. He would not get as many minutes as a matter of course. No one is. Second, in today's more efficient game with more emphasis on the ability to shoot the 3, he wouldn't be given as many touches, and if he insisted on taking them, he would see more time on the pine thinking about it. Third, on virtually every team today, there are multiple guys who can shoot from deep and they will get touches and shots, which just leaves less for a guy like Iverson who basically had the green light to shoot whenever the heck he wanted.
Bottom line: You are completely blind (or a fool) if you think the rim/paint is defended today anywhere remotely close to the degree that it was defended in the 80's/90's, and probably the first half of the 00's.
PS: Giannis shoots 29% from 3. Luka is a below (league) average 3-point shooter for his career. DeRozen shoots 30%. MANY other prominent Scorers in today's NBA (Shai, Booker, Mitchell, Joker, etc.) are just average shooters from deep... so this notion of having to be a threat from deep is nonsense.
Iverson off the dribble would be breaking ankles by the dozen in today's league... and he'd have a virtual cakewalk to the basket 75% of the time.
Facts.
Iverson off the dribble would be breaking fewer ankles than he did back in the day, because the guys in front of him now are more athletic on average, than the guys who were in front of him back when he was at his peak. He would be getting fewer touches and getting more shots blocked at the rim, not less. Teams rotate today way more effectively than they ever have in the past, because they have to. He's a shrimp and almost anybody rotating to the bucket would have a decent shot at blocking his layup attempts.
There were often more guys in the paint in the 80s and 90s because you didn't have to guard out to the 3 point line, but there was also way more iso basketball because of illegal defense rules. The game was more post oriented as well for the same reason (no illegal defense) and because there were far fewer effective 3 point shooters.
More shots are blocked today, despite the fact that far more shots are taken from very deep where very few are blocked. That means far more are being blocked near the bucket. There is no door number 3.
Rob and Grizz have touched upon some of this, but what sincere boomer heads usually fail to understand is that while there are some factors that work in favor of superstar scoring in the modern era vs. older era, there are actually some that work against it as well. It's a push-pull of competing forces, not an unmixed blessing.
For example, minutes played (which in turn correlates to possessions). Today's superstars play fewer minutes than stars of yesteryear, which will generally lead to fewer scoring chances, unless offset by increased pace.
Giannis PPG 2024: 30.8 a game in 35 minutes/game
Karl Malone PPG 1991: 29.0 a game in 40.3 minutes/game
1.8 PPG difference, 6.2 percentage advantage over Malone
Giannis 2024 PPG/100 possessions: 41.7
Karl Malone 1991 PPG/100 possessions: 36.4
5.3 PP/100 possessions difference, 14.6 percentage advantage over Malone
Malone playing about 15 percent more minutes a game, pretty much turned what would be a moderate advantage for Giannis per-possession to a fairly close result per-game.
Obviously, that's not the only factor and yes some factors work in favor of the modern athlete, but as someone who doesn't seek to value any particular era per se...the advantages afford to modern top players seem to get talked about WAY more than the (relative) disadvantages they have to go through. I think a lot of that is because the culture of the NBA is pretty shitty, which prompts certain fans in that direction (I'm not even saying the culture is good...but you can have shitty politics and player empowerment be way too high....while playing great between the lines when you do play).
