2014 Anger General Geatest of All Time: #24 selection

[kobeunderbite]

I enjoy when the smug, basketball snobs of the board get defeated openly in debate (what is happening to Bush now).

[Y2K]

You don't see the difference in basketball bodies between a guy 7'1", 230, lean and muscular, and a guy who is 6'4", 260, and fat?

Few people thought Barkley would be as good as he was. Robinson should have been better.

The only time I remember them facing off in the playoffs I remember Barkley iso'ing on Robinson and hitting a long jumper over him to win the series.

Barkley deserves to be ranked ahead of Robinson.

How so? And he was around 250 at his peak.


BTW, the Spurs squashed the Suns in 1996.

D-Rob: 30/12/3 56/-/83%
Barkley: 25/14/4 44/25/79%

Closeout game:

D-Rob; 30/13/6 12/21 FGs in 36 min
barkley: 21/9/5 6/15 FGs in 41 min

[Bush4Ever]

Not particularly. Arguing a fairly silly point for the sake of showing you can, isn't all that thought provoking.

Stop trying to intimidate your way through a discussion (and failing). Don't be a coward.

Explain how:

A) Barkley's body and physical ability are significantly worse than D-Rob's

and

B) Tim Grover says Barkley was *more* athletic than Jordan
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_ ... iner-on-mj" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Can exist at the same time? Remember, Grover trained both Jordan and Barkley.

Explain how Barkley generally grabbed more rebounds than D-Rob as a 6'5''(ish) player *without* superior physical advantages to D-Rob in *some* regard. Explain functionally how a 6'5'' player can grab more rebounds than an extremely athletic 7 footer *without* possessing relevant physical and athletic advantages of some stripe.

Pro tip: Athletic ability/Physicality extended a shit load beyond height and weight, and height/weight ratios. It is reducing it to an absurdity.

Bottom line:

Saying D-Rob had a better physical body/athleticism for the game than Barkley is fine. Saying that he was significantly superior in that regard is ridiculous and cause for ridicule. They are both in the 99+ percentile of NBA players when it comes to athletic ability. If you can't tell that even from the eye test alone, I don't know what to tell you.

*No one* in NBA history had a *significant and overwhelmingly* better set of physical attributes and athletic ability than Barkley.

[ripper76]

You don't see the difference in basketball bodies between a guy 7'1", 230, lean and muscular, and a guy who is 6'4", 260, and fat?

Few people thought Barkley would be as good as he was. Robinson should have been better.

The only time I remember them facing off in the playoffs I remember Barkley iso'ing on Robinson and hitting a long jumper over him to win the series.

Barkley deserves to be ranked ahead of Robinson.

How so? And he was around 250 at his peak.


BTW, the Spurs squashed the Suns in 1996.

D-Rob: 30/12/3 56/-/83%
Barkley: 25/14/4 44/25/79%

Closeout game:

D-Rob; 30/13/6 12/21 FGs in 36 min
barkley: 21/9/5 6/15 FGs in 41 min

He was listed at 252. He was often heavier than that. He was over 300 pounds in college. I'm really not sure what the argument is here. If somebody wants to say that Charles Barkley had a better basketball body than David Robinson, then that's just retarded. That's number1lebronfan level trolling. The guy did amazing things, more than most expected. David Robinson underachieved. That's the point.

I didn't watch the 96 series. I was in the Air Force at the time and didn't have time to watch too many games during that period. I do know that was Barkley's last year in Phoenix and he and KJ were both on the decline. I can't speak to it personally though. LIke I said, I just remember Barkley hitting the series winner over Robinson.

[youtube]AyFVKd2Nw-s[/youtube]

I think Barkley made more of what he had to work with than Robinson did, and if I had to pick a player in his prime to have on my team for a playoff series it would be Barkley over Robinson. That's why he's got my vote here.

[ripper76]

Not particularly. Arguing a fairly silly point for the sake of showing you can, isn't all that thought provoking.

Stop trying to intimidate your way through a discussion (and failing). Don't be a coward.

Explain how:

A) Barkley's body and physical ability are significantly worse than D-Rob's

and

B) Tim Grover says Barkley was *more* athletic than Jordan
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_ ... iner-on-mj" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Can exist at the same time? Remember, Grover trained both Jordan and Barkley.

Explain how Barkley generally grabbed more rebounds than D-Rob as a 6'5''(ish) player *without* superior physical advantages to D-Rob in *some* regard. Explain functionally how a 6'5'' player can grab more rebounds than an extremely athletic 7 footer *without* possessing relevant physical and athletic advantages of some stripe.

Pro tip: Athletic ability/Physicality extended a shit load beyond height and weight, and height/weight ratios. It is reducing it to an absurdity.

Bottom line:

Saying D-Rob had a better physical body/athleticism for the game than Barkley is fine. Saying that he was significantly superior in that regard is ridiculous and cause for ridicule. They are both in the 99+ percentile of NBA players when it comes to athletic ability. If you can't tell that even from the eye test alone, I don't know what to tell you.

*No one* in NBA history had a *significant and overwhelmingly* better set of physical attributes and athletic ability than Barkley.

No.

If I was interested in this kind of nonsense I'd go find a TDK thread.

[Bush4Ever]

And as an FYI...it was widely recognized that Barkley (not Jordan) was the best player during the 1984 Olympic trials.

He basically got cut because he trolled Bobby Knight, and Knight was afraid he couldn't control him, but Barkley was a monster in that regard from day one. Absolutely overwhelming physical force of nature.

[Bush4Ever]

No.

If I was interested in this kind of nonsense I'd go find a TDK thread.

So basically, you don't want to have your opinions challenged....in a discussion thread?

Doesn't make sense to me, but do what you want.

[wailuaFC]

And as an FYI...it was widely recognized that Barkley (not Jordan) was the best player during the 1984 Olympic trials.

He basically got cut because he trolled Bobby Knight, and Knight was afraid he couldn't control him, but Barkley was a monster in that regard from day one. Absolutely overwhelming physical force of nature.

So your argument against barkley was that he outplayed jordan?

[wailuaFC]

Barkley, and it really isnt close

[ripper76]

No.

If I was interested in this kind of nonsense I'd go find a TDK thread.

So basically, you don't want to have your opinions challenged....in a discussion thread?

Doesn't make sense to me, but do what you want.

No, I'm not interested in your schtick of taking a ridiculous position and arguing from it for the sake of trolling.

Like I alluded to earlier, that's what we have number1lebronfan for.

[Bush4Ever]

So your argument against barkley was that he outplayed jordan?

What are you talking about?

This side discussion was about Barkley's physical abilities/natural talent as compared to D-Rob's. I say they are virtually equal, Ripper says D-Rob's were "clearly superior" (basically).

It was brought up that no one expected Barkley to be that good. I simply pointed out that before he even played a NBA game, he was kicking the shit out of his peers, and by most accounts outplaying everyone at the trials (including Jordan). This was *largely* on the basis of his extreme physicality.

I *would* vote for D-Rob over Barkley, but that has nothing to do with this side discussion. I already explained my reasoning and perspective on that earlier in the thread.

[Bush4Ever]

No, I'm not interested in your schtick of taking a ridiculous position and arguing from it for the sake of trolling.

Like I alluded to earlier, that's what we have number1lebronfan for.

Your cowardice is noted.

[ripper76]

No, I'm not interested in your schtick of taking a ridiculous position and arguing from it for the sake of trolling.

Like I alluded to earlier, that's what we have number1lebronfan for.

Your cowardice is noted.

That kind of thing is usually very effective at getting me to engage and/or get me riled up. Good strategy.

[wailuaFC]

So your argument against barkley was that he outplayed jordan?

What are you talking about?

I was talking about you voting for D-Rob over barkley, yet saying the barkley outplayed the #1 player all time.

Note: Im not very good at trolling

Second note: In no way was barkley as physically gifted as D-rob. Youre comparing a legit 7 footer built with lean muscle to a 5'2 power forward whose damn nickname was the round mound of rebound. D-rob was long, lean, muscular, and super quick, whereas charles was short, stocky, and only second to chuck hayes in his ability to grow roots and be unmovable. Did charles have some unique gifts? Absolutely, but his long arms were not as long as D-robs, nor was his vertical as high (guessing on this one, cant find a measurement for D-rob but from film D-rob looked like a much higher jumper).

[Bush4Ever]

That kind of thing is usually very effective at getting me to engage and/or get me riled up. Good strategy.

I don't care if you get riled up or not. It's not for you, it's for other neutral observers to consider.

You know you made a foolish statement. Instead of retracting it (or even letting it drop), you attempt to bluff and intimidate your way through the debate (or pretending you were trolling by trolling now---you weren't trolling when you made your original statement) by calling me a troll and my position ridiculous. Your play is obvious.

[kobeunderbite]

Bush is getting THRASHED in here by RIPPER !

WOW!

[ripper76]

This one doesn't seem like it's going to be particularly close.

[Master Spade]

The Disrespect for a Player with 6 Championships, and one of the Best Defensive players of All Time is disgusting!!



So.......Scottie Pippen isn't a top 25 Player of All Time!!!????

[Bush4Ever]

I was talking about you voting for D-Rob over barkley, yet saying the barkley outplayed the #1 player all time.

Note: Im not very good at trolling

Second note: In no way was barkley as physically gifted as D-rob. Youre comparing a legit 7 footer built with lean muscle to a 5'2 power forward whose damn nickname was the round mound of rebound. D-rob was long, lean, muscular, and super quick, whereas charles was short, stocky, and only second to chuck hayes in his ability to grow roots and be unmovable. Did charles have some unique gifts? Absolutely, but his long arms were not as long as D-robs, nor was his vertical as high (guessing on this one, cant find a measurement for D-rob but from film D-rob looked like a much higher jumper).

What does Barkley outplaying Jordan at the Olympic trials for two weeks before a pro career have anything to do with how he performed vs. D-Rob over a 15 year NBA career? Non-sequitur much?

If you don't think Barkley was *comparably* athletic to David Robinson, you simply don't know what you are looking at, or you are looking at athletic ability through a ridiculously narrow lens.

Barkley was physically stronger, had a stronger core, was a much quicker and more explosive leaper (hint: this is one of the main reasons why he outrebounded so many taller individuals, especially on second and third type leaps) and possessed superior end to end speed and superior quickness.

I think some of you all have the old, *truly* fat Barkley from Houston in your minds. Watch tape of Barkley from his later 76er years if you want a more accurate assessment of his true, natural talent (basically, before his laziness ultimately caught up with him).

D-Rob's height, build, and conditioning were all indeed big pluses for him as well, and his combination of height, lateral movement, and agility/dexterity was *also* at the extreme end of the scale in terms of athletic ability and basically unequaled.

But so was Barkley's combination of attributes. No one in history *clearly and overwhelmingly* had a better combination of speed, explosiveness, and strength than Charles Barkley.

I mean people, Barkley beat the shit out of guys significantly taller and bigger than him all the time. Grabbing rebounds, getting easy buckets galore inside, etc...as a 6'5'' player. What the hell do you think was the cause of that?

That being said, I do have practice. I hope you all be trolling me son, because some of you are coming off as completely insane. I know I'm not insane (at least not anymore, my therapist says so), so it must be you all. You all better watch it. Yes, even you Ripper. If you don't stop talking shit, I'll imply that you are a pedophile based on the content of your avatar. And you don't want that.

[Y2K]

The Disrespect for a Player with 6 Championships, and one of the Best Defensive players of All Time is disgusting!!



So.......Scottie Pippen isn't a top 25 Player of All Time!!!????

Unfortunately his resume is sorely lacking major impact other than years 1990-98.