Lebron will be implicated with Diddy

[thedangerouskitchen]

Why would that trigger me? You keep writing it over and over like an autistic weirdo. It’s not normal. It’s unhinged behavior.

I wrote it twice... you're not paying attention because, as noted, you're triggered.

Question is, why?

You’re in here arguing with three different people, maniac. If I’m triggered then you’re definitely unhinged as fuck.

Get your T levels checked, holy shit.

You've posted numerous times without getting your facts in order first. That means you're triggered.

[thedangerouskitchen]

I've addressed it in spades too many times to count. You just make shit up.

Just for fun though, I'll post the on/off court stats from that season.
https://www.82games.com/0809/0809CLE.HTM

When you combine the on/off court with the minutes played, it is pretty startling. There's a reason when he left, the floor fell out. But, but but..... reasons why that happened. If it was a 10 game drop, sure. It was more like 40 if memory serves. Anyways, uncle. You are way too far gone for any rational discussion on any of this, at least today. You have no idea how much of an ass you have made of yourself in this thread. Everyone else but you sees it.

Again... for the record:

You did not (repeatedly) refer to his 2009 teammates as "tomato cans" and you do not believe that's the case? You do not believe LeBron was responsible for the Cavs' #2 ranked 3-point shooting, and you DO agree that the Big Men were most important to the Cavs' #3 ranked Defense that year? Correct?

No deflections this time.

Uncle. I definitely called some of his teammates tomato cans, because they were. I never, ever made a claim that LeBron was responsible for them being the #2 3 point shooting team, but now that you mention it, he would have been a BIG factor in that, since he provided a ton of open looks to spot up shooters. And numerous times, I credited big man Varajeo as a significant reason for the team's success and improvement from the prior season.

Now why don't you address the on/off court impact combined with the number of minutes and explain to me how good that team would have been without LeBron. The link is there to examine. I'll wait. DON'T DEFLECT.

LIAR!

You never singled-out players. You repeatedly stated that LeBron "carried/led tomato cans", which is why he didn't win the Championship despite 66-wins and the #1 seed... and you most certainly credited LeBron for their 3-point shooting because I called you out several times, noting that LeBron was not the guy "making" those shots.

Also, crediting Andy's Defense does not excuse the fact that you refuse/d to acknowledge what you have stated countless times before (when defending Bill Russell): Big Man Defense is more valuable/important than perimeter Defense... and in 2009 the Cavs had three (3) excellent Big Man defenders (Wallace, Big Z and Andy).

So...

In 2009 the Cavs had the #2 ranked 3-point shooting "team" in the league and 6th best Shooting team overall (up significantly from 2008, when they ranked 16th and 28th respectfully) while LeBron's shooting was basically the same both years.

In 2009 the Cavs had the #3 ranked Defense (up from 11th the previous year) with their "interior" Defense being far more important/valuable than their "perimeter/wing" defense.

In 2009 the Cavs added Mo Williams, who shot lights-out from deep AND provided much needed help for LeBron at the PG position, which he didn't have in 2008.

In other words... Mo, Andy, Big Z, Szczerbiak, West, Gibson, etc. (by virtue of their stellar Shooting and/or Defense), played HUGE roles in the Cavs' significant improvement over 2008.

In other words, with the #3 Defense and #2/#6 Shooting "team" around him LeBron had NO EXCUSE for losing to a LOWER seed in the Playoffs.

Correct?

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

Again... for the record:

You did not (repeatedly) refer to his 2009 teammates as "tomato cans" and you do not believe that's the case? You do not believe LeBron was responsible for the Cavs' #2 ranked 3-point shooting, and you DO agree that the Big Men were most important to the Cavs' #3 ranked Defense that year? Correct?

No deflections this time.

Uncle. I definitely called some of his teammates tomato cans, because they were. I never, ever made a claim that LeBron was responsible for them being the #2 3 point shooting team, but now that you mention it, he would have been a BIG factor in that, since he provided a ton of open looks to spot up shooters. And numerous times, I credited big man Varajeo as a significant reason for the team's success and improvement from the prior season.

Now why don't you address the on/off court impact combined with the number of minutes and explain to me how good that team would have been without LeBron. The link is there to examine. I'll wait. DON'T DEFLECT.

LIAR!

You never singled-out players. You repeatedly stated that LeBron "carried/led tomato cans", which is why he didn't win the Championship despite 66-wins and the #1 seed... and you most certainly credited LeBron for their 3-point shooting because I called you out several times, noting that LeBron was not the guy "making" those shots.

Also, crediting Andy's Defense does not excuse the fact that you refuse/d to acknowledge what you have stated countless times before (when defending Bill Russell): Big Man Defense is more valuable/important than perimeter Defense... and in 2009 the Cavs had three (3) excellent Big Man defenders (Wallace, Big Z and Andy).

So...

In 2009 the Cavs had the #2 ranked 3-point shooting "team" in the league and 6th best Shooting team overall (up significantly from 2008, when they ranked 16th and 28th respectfully) while LeBron's shooting was basically the same both years.

In 2009 the Cavs had the #3 ranked Defense (up from 11th the previous year) with their "interior" Defense being far more important/valuable than their "perimeter/wing" defense.

In 2009 the Cavs added Mo Williams, who shot lights-out from deep AND provided much needed help for LeBron at the PG position, which he didn't have in 2008.

In other words... Mo, Andy, Big Z, Szczerbiak, West, Gibson, etc. (by virtue of their stellar Shooting and/or Defense), played HUGE roles in the Cavs' significant improvement over 2008.

In other words, with the #3 Defense and #2/#6 Shooting "team" around him LeBron had NO EXCUSE for losing to a LOWER seed in the Playoffs.

Correct?

I'm not the liar here TDK. You are.

Find the threads and post them. I DARE YOU. You know you are full of shit on everything.

Edit: By the way, I see you conveniently didn't address the link I have provided for you on the on floor impact of each guy. By the way, Ben and Z only played 33% and 45% of minutes respectively. Varajeo played 58%. By the way, despite their contributions, on their own, both Andy and Williams were barely positive with respect to on floor and off floor impact. I hadn't noticed that before.

[LeBronMonsterDunk]

Mental illness is very sad.

Holy shit.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Uncle. I definitely called some of his teammates tomato cans, because they were. I never, ever made a claim that LeBron was responsible for them being the #2 3 point shooting team, but now that you mention it, he would have been a BIG factor in that, since he provided a ton of open looks to spot up shooters. And numerous times, I credited big man Varajeo as a significant reason for the team's success and improvement from the prior season.

Now why don't you address the on/off court impact combined with the number of minutes and explain to me how good that team would have been without LeBron. The link is there to examine. I'll wait. DON'T DEFLECT.

LIAR!

You never singled-out players. You repeatedly stated that LeBron "carried/led tomato cans", which is why he didn't win the Championship despite 66-wins and the #1 seed... and you most certainly credited LeBron for their 3-point shooting because I called you out several times, noting that LeBron was not the guy "making" those shots.

Also, crediting Andy's Defense does not excuse the fact that you refuse/d to acknowledge what you have stated countless times before (when defending Bill Russell): Big Man Defense is more valuable/important than perimeter Defense... and in 2009 the Cavs had three (3) excellent Big Man defenders (Wallace, Big Z and Andy).

So...

In 2009 the Cavs had the #2 ranked 3-point shooting "team" in the league and 6th best Shooting team overall (up significantly from 2008, when they ranked 16th and 28th respectfully) while LeBron's shooting was basically the same both years.

In 2009 the Cavs had the #3 ranked Defense (up from 11th the previous year) with their "interior" Defense being far more important/valuable than their "perimeter/wing" defense.

In 2009 the Cavs added Mo Williams, who shot lights-out from deep AND provided much needed help for LeBron at the PG position, which he didn't have in 2008.

In other words... Mo, Andy, Big Z, Szczerbiak, West, Gibson, etc. (by virtue of their stellar Shooting and/or Defense), played HUGE roles in the Cavs' significant improvement over 2008.

In other words, with the #3 Defense and #2/#6 Shooting "team" around him LeBron had NO EXCUSE for losing to a LOWER seed in the Playoffs.

Correct?

I'm not the liar here TDK. You are.

Find the threads and post them. I DARE YOU. You know you are full of shit on everything.

Edit: By the way, I see you conveniently didn't address the link I have provided for you on the on floor impact of each guy. By the way, Ben and Z only played 33% and 45% of minutes respectively. Varajeo played 58%. By the way, despite their contributions, on their own, both Andy and Williams were barely positive with respect to on floor and off floor impact. I hadn't noticed that before.

I just destroyed you grizz, literally... your ego will never admit BUT any objective person reading will agree.

FACT is the 2009 Cavs "team" featured ELITE Defense and ELITE Shooting... MORE than enough "around" LeBron to win the Championship YET LeBron couldn't lead them past a lower seed that was missing its All Star PG, putting to bed your pathetic excuse that he didn't win because of tomato can teammates.



Walk it off...

[Bush4Ever.]

Mental illness is very sad.

Holy shit.

Are you willing to state that if Lebron is involved with raping and sex trafficking children, that he's a pretty terrible human being?

Or are you AFRAID?

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

LIAR!

You never singled-out players. You repeatedly stated that LeBron "carried/led tomato cans", which is why he didn't win the Championship despite 66-wins and the #1 seed... and you most certainly credited LeBron for their 3-point shooting because I called you out several times, noting that LeBron was not the guy "making" those shots.

Also, crediting Andy's Defense does not excuse the fact that you refuse/d to acknowledge what you have stated countless times before (when defending Bill Russell): Big Man Defense is more valuable/important than perimeter Defense... and in 2009 the Cavs had three (3) excellent Big Man defenders (Wallace, Big Z and Andy).

So...

In 2009 the Cavs had the #2 ranked 3-point shooting "team" in the league and 6th best Shooting team overall (up significantly from 2008, when they ranked 16th and 28th respectfully) while LeBron's shooting was basically the same both years.

In 2009 the Cavs had the #3 ranked Defense (up from 11th the previous year) with their "interior" Defense being far more important/valuable than their "perimeter/wing" defense.

In 2009 the Cavs added Mo Williams, who shot lights-out from deep AND provided much needed help for LeBron at the PG position, which he didn't have in 2008.

In other words... Mo, Andy, Big Z, Szczerbiak, West, Gibson, etc. (by virtue of their stellar Shooting and/or Defense), played HUGE roles in the Cavs' significant improvement over 2008.

In other words, with the #3 Defense and #2/#6 Shooting "team" around him LeBron had NO EXCUSE for losing to a LOWER seed in the Playoffs.

Correct?

I'm not the liar here TDK. You are.

Find the threads and post them. I DARE YOU. You know you are full of shit on everything.

Edit: By the way, I see you conveniently didn't address the link I have provided for you on the on floor impact of each guy. By the way, Ben and Z only played 33% and 45% of minutes respectively. Varajeo played 58%. By the way, despite their contributions, on their own, both Andy and Williams were barely positive with respect to on floor and off floor impact. I hadn't noticed that before.

I just destroyed you grizz, literally... your ego will never admit BUT any objective person reading will agree.

FACT is the 2009 Cavs "team" featured ELITE Defense and ELITE Shooting... MORE than enough "around" LeBron to win the Championship YET LeBron couldn't lead them past a lower seed that was missing it's All Star PG, putting to bed your pathetic excuse that he didn't win because of tomato can teammates.



Walk it off...

In your mind only TDK. As usual, you deflected everything I noted, and as usual, are afraid to actually pull up the threads because you KNOW I am telling the truth and you are lying. And that team, without LeBron, is in the lottery.

[thedangerouskitchen]

I'm not the liar here TDK. You are.

Find the threads and post them. I DARE YOU. You know you are full of shit on everything.

Edit: By the way, I see you conveniently didn't address the link I have provided for you on the on floor impact of each guy. By the way, Ben and Z only played 33% and 45% of minutes respectively. Varajeo played 58%. By the way, despite their contributions, on their own, both Andy and Williams were barely positive with respect to on floor and off floor impact. I hadn't noticed that before.

I just destroyed you grizz, literally... your ego will never admit BUT any objective person reading will agree.

FACT is the 2009 Cavs "team" featured ELITE Defense and ELITE Shooting... MORE than enough "around" LeBron to win the Championship YET LeBron couldn't lead them past a lower seed that was missing it's All Star PG, putting to bed your pathetic excuse that he didn't win because of tomato can teammates.



Walk it off...

In your mind only TDK. As usual, you deflected everything I noted, and as usual, are afraid to actually pull up the threads because you KNOW I am telling the truth and you are lying. And that team, without LeBron, is in the lottery.

Everything I stated is true and factual... and you can feel free to pull up the threads.

The team was built around LeBron fool, around his strengths and style. No one disputes that... as such, he was the most important player, so of course his +/- is going to be better than anyone else. That's not rocket-science. The issue here is you making pussy ass excuses for LeBron losing to a lower seed (missing its All Star PG) because you claimed LeBron had tomato cans around him.

You are wrong, as I proved in my previous posts.

As noted... walk it off and move on.

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

I just destroyed you grizz, literally... your ego will never admit BUT any objective person reading will agree.

FACT is the 2009 Cavs "team" featured ELITE Defense and ELITE Shooting... MORE than enough "around" LeBron to win the Championship YET LeBron couldn't lead them past a lower seed that was missing it's All Star PG, putting to bed your pathetic excuse that he didn't win because of tomato can teammates.



Walk it off...

In your mind only TDK. As usual, you deflected everything I noted, and as usual, are afraid to actually pull up the threads because you KNOW I am telling the truth and you are lying. And that team, without LeBron, is in the lottery.

Everything I stated is true and factual... and you can feel free to pull up the threads.

The team was built around LeBron fool, around his strengths and style. No one disputes that... as such, he was the most important player, so of course his +/- is going to be better than anyone else. That's not rocket-science. The issue here is you making pussy ass excuses for LeBron losing to a lower seed (missing its All Star PG) because you claimed LeBron had tomato cans around him.

You are wrong, as I proved in my previous posts.

As noted... walk it off and move on.

You did nothing of the sort. And if you go through the 2009 loss to the Magic, it is obvious your contention is bullshit and just your continual anti-LeBron bias. I'm tired of winning arguments with you and then you pretending it didn't happen. PULL THE DAMN THREADS AND EMBARRASS YOURSELF.

EDIT: Just for fun, I pulled the 2009 playoffs page for the Cavs. It is even more positive towards LeBron than the earlier link for the regular season.

https://www.82games.com/0809/playoffs/0809CLE.HTM

I'd love your detailed analysis of that. I'll tell you not to deflect, but we both know I'm wasting my breath on that one. It is all you can do.

[Uncontroversial]

Lebron has been going to Diddy parties for years. All of which were filmed. Police say they have incriminating footage of stars that are way bigger than Diddy. He’s cooked. Maybe the nba shouldn’t have hitched their wagon to him for 20 years. After all, he needed to bounce from super team to super team just to get 4 rings, tying Steph curry in the same era

[AlaskaHawks]

Sounds like Kevin Hart probably too. Too bad it will all most likely get swept under the rug.

[xer0]

LeBron is finished as a human being, after he gets exposed I won't be surprised when well end up finding out he's also been on HGH. Dudes a total fraud of a human being, deserves zero respect on and off the court.

[thedangerouskitchen]

In your mind only TDK. As usual, you deflected everything I noted, and as usual, are afraid to actually pull up the threads because you KNOW I am telling the truth and you are lying. And that team, without LeBron, is in the lottery.

Everything I stated is true and factual... and you can feel free to pull up the threads.

The team was built around LeBron fool, around his strengths and style. No one disputes that... as such, he was the most important player, so of course his +/- is going to be better than anyone else. That's not rocket-science. The issue here is you making pussy ass excuses for LeBron losing to a lower seed (missing its All Star PG) because you claimed LeBron had tomato cans around him.

You are wrong, as I proved in my previous posts.

As noted... walk it off and move on.

You did nothing of the sort. And if you go through the 2009 loss to the Magic, it is obvious your contention is bullshit and just your continual anti-LeBron bias. I'm tired of winning arguments with you and then you pretending it didn't happen. PULL THE DAMN THREADS AND EMBARRASS YOURSELF.

EDIT: Just for fun, I pulled the 2009 playoffs page for the Cavs. It is even more positive towards LeBron than the earlier link for the regular season.

https://www.82games.com/0809/playoffs/0809CLE.HTM

I'd love your detailed analysis of that. I'll tell you not to deflect, but we both know I'm wasting my breath on that one. It is all you can do.

at you talking about deflecting when that's precisely what you've been doing in the last few posts... but you'll continue to deny and claim victory, even though anyone with a working eyeball can see that you got castrated ITT.

You have repeatedly referred to LeBron's 2009 teammates as tomato cans... and you're completely delusional OR a bold-faced liar if you sit there and deny it. My contention was/still is that it's impossible to win 66 games and then, after failing to beat a lower seed missing an All Star starter, sit there and claim he "didn't have enough haaaaalp" WHEN the two (2) primary reasons for that season-long success (ie; elite Shooting and elite Defense) were largely because of LeBron's teammates.

The fact that his teammates shit the bed in the ECF is one thing... and FTR that happens to top/high seeded teams VERY often deep in the playoffs. But collectively as a supporting cast the 2009 Cavs were faaaaaaaaaar from the scrubs you make them out to be, in an effort to slurp LeFraud's stick for God knows what reason.

Now if you want to talk about WHY his teammates shit the bed, that's another story. But to call them tomato cans is just plain stupid and wrong.

Again, the team was built around LeBron's strengths / style of play, so of course he's going to have the best stats (fake and real)... but there's also an intangible you continue to overlook, no doubt because you never played a team sport: A GOAT level player has that "it" factor that enables him to elevate his teammates in the biggest games/moments, somehow/someway bringing out the BEST in his teammates when it matters most. Guys like Jordan, Magic, Bird, and yes, Russell (and some others) come to mind.

LeBron clearly didn't have "it" in 2009, and to this day he STILL doesn't. In fact, throughout his career LeFraud's teammates have very often under-performed in the playoffs... and that could be for several reasons:

He doesn't SET a win-at-all-costs tone all season long (ESPECIALLY on the Defensive end), he doesn't challenge his teammates enough, he stifles teammates' confidence/ability to do what they do best by believing he must do-it-all himself (ie; a lack of trust), he forces superstar teammates to adapt to his style, which impacts their production and in some cases takes them out of their game and forces them into roles they're not accustomed to or comfortable performing... and there's probably other reasons to consider as well, but there's one thing for sure and two for certain: These intangibles don't show up on your silly charts, graphs and fake-stats, but they are REAL because throughout the vast majority of his career LeFraud has been surrounded by boatloads of all-star/all-star caliber and future HOF talent YET he's failed to get to the top of the mountain 17 times in 21 seasons (20 really, if we're discounting the *asterisk* 2020 season).

...an embarrassing Winning ratio for the (supposed) GOAT, but I digress.

You can continue to put all the blame on his "tomato can" teammates and use your little stats and stuff as "proof" (lol), but people who really know the game know there's more than just stats. We know what's up: LeFraud was able to "get his" (like he always does - ), but he simply didn't have the "it" factor as the LEADER to get the best out of his teammates so they could get theirs too... and the truth is we've seen this pattern throughout his entire career, which explains the horrible Finals record, the fact that he's lost to lower seeds numerous times, and failed to even make the playoffs multiple times with All-Star and HOF caliber teammates alongside him.

Now... walk it off already, will ya. I'm tired of slapping you around.

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

OMG. My work is definitely done here. I got you to write a page of baloney without even trying.

I could go through the series against the Magic again and what went very right for them and what went wrong with the Cavs, but I've done that ad nauseum in the threads you refuse to search.

As far as how good those guys were w/o LeBron, we got the proof as soon as LeBron left. Turns out, most were tomato cans.

[Alex_Murphy]

Everything I stated is true and factual... and you can feel free to pull up the threads.

The team was built around LeBron fool, around his strengths and style. No one disputes that... as such, he was the most important player, so of course his +/- is going to be better than anyone else. That's not rocket-science. The issue here is you making pussy ass excuses for LeBron losing to a lower seed (missing its All Star PG) because you claimed LeBron had tomato cans around him.

You are wrong, as I proved in my previous posts.

As noted... walk it off and move on.

You did nothing of the sort. And if you go through the 2009 loss to the Magic, it is obvious your contention is bullshit and just your continual anti-LeBron bias. I'm tired of winning arguments with you and then you pretending it didn't happen. PULL THE DAMN THREADS AND EMBARRASS YOURSELF.

EDIT: Just for fun, I pulled the 2009 playoffs page for the Cavs. It is even more positive towards LeBron than the earlier link for the regular season.

https://www.82games.com/0809/playoffs/0809CLE.HTM

I'd love your detailed analysis of that. I'll tell you not to deflect, but we both know I'm wasting my breath on that one. It is all you can do.

at you talking about deflecting when that's precisely what you've been doing in the last few posts... but you'll continue to deny and claim victory, even though anyone with a working eyeball can see that you got castrated ITT.

You have repeatedly referred to LeBron's 2009 teammates as tomato cans... and you're completely delusional OR a bold-faced liar if you sit there and deny it. My contention was/still is that it's impossible to win 66 games and then, after failing to beat a lower seed missing an All Star starter, sit there and claim he "didn't have enough haaaaalp" WHEN the two (2) primary reasons for that season-long success (ie; elite Shooting and elite Defense) were largely because of LeBron's teammates.

The fact that his teammates shit the bed in the ECF is one thing... and FTR that happens to top/high seeded teams VERY often deep in the playoffs. But collectively as a supporting cast the 2009 Cavs were faaaaaaaaaar from the scrubs you make them out to be, in an effort to slurp LeFraud's stick for God knows what reason.

Now if you want to talk about WHY his teammates shit the bed, that's another story. But to call them tomato cans is just plain stupid and wrong.

Again, the team was built around LeBron's strengths / style of play, so of course he's going to have the best stats (fake and real)... but there's also an intangible you continue to overlook, no doubt because you never played a team sport: A GOAT level player has that "it" factor that enables him to elevate his teammates in the biggest games/moments, somehow/someway bringing out the BEST in his teammates when it matters most. Guys like Jordan, Magic, Bird, and yes, Russell (and some others) come to mind.

LeBron clearly didn't have "it" in 2009, and to this day he STILL doesn't. In fact, throughout his career LeFraud's teammates have very often under-performed in the playoffs... and that could be for several reasons:

He doesn't SET a win-at-all-costs tone all season long (ESPECIALLY on the Defensive end), he doesn't challenge his teammates enough, he stifles teammates' confidence/ability to do what they do best by believing he must do-it-all himself (ie; a lack of trust), he forces superstar teammates to adapt to his style, which impacts their production and in some cases takes them out of their game and forces them into roles they're not accustomed to or comfortable performing... and there's probably other reasons to consider as well, but there's one thing for sure and two for certain: These intangibles don't show up on your silly charts, graphs and fake-stats, but they are REAL because throughly the vast majority of his career LeFraud has been surrounded by boatloads of all-star/all-star caliber and future HOF talent YET he's failed to get to the top of the mountain 17 times in 21 seasons (20 really, if we're discounting the *asterisk* 2020 season).

...an embarrassing Winning ratio for the (supposed) GOAT, but I digress.

You can continue to put all the blame on his "tomato can" teammates and use your little stats and stuff as "proof" (lol), but people who really know the game know there's more than just stats. We know what's up: LeFraud was able to "get his" (like he always does - ), but he simply didn't have the "it" factor as the LEADER to get the best out of his teammates so they could get theirs too... and the truth is we've seen this pattern throughout his entire career, which explains the horrible Finals record, the fact that he's lost to lower seeds numerous times, and failed to even make the playoffs multiple times with All-Star and HOF caliber teammates alongside him.

Now... walk it off already, will ya. I'm tired of slapping you around.

well said, imho.

[thedangerouskitchen]

OMG. My work is definitely done here. I got you to write a page of baloney without even trying.

I could go through the series against the Magic again and what went very right for them and what went wrong with the Cavs, but I've done that ad nauseum in the threads you refuse to search.

As far as how good those guys were w/o LeBron, we got the proof as soon as LeBron left. Turns out, most were tomato cans.

You got castrated, meatball... your work is done because you have absolutely zero (0) retort, and rather than take your beating like a real man you decided to take the gutless coward route and imply that you were just trolling.



Bottom line: You don't win 66 games, finish #2/#6 in 3PT%/FG% respectively, #3/#4 overall in Defense/Offense respectively, and then sweep your first two (2) playoff opponents with 1 superstar and a team full of tomato cans... and truth be told you come across looking like a complete buffoon for continuing to suggest that was the case.

Now... MY work ITT is done. Lick your wounds, take a day or two off to think about the beating you just took, then come back to fight another day.

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

OMG. My work is definitely done here. I got you to write a page of baloney without even trying.

I could go through the series against the Magic again and what went very right for them and what went wrong with the Cavs, but I've done that ad nauseum in the threads you refuse to search.

As far as how good those guys were w/o LeBron, we got the proof as soon as LeBron left. Turns out, most were tomato cans.

You got castrated, meatball... your work is done because you have absolutely zero (0) retort, and rather than take your beating like a real man you decided to take the gutless coward route and imply that you were just trolling.



Bottom line: You don't win 66 games, finish #2/#6 in 3PT%/FG% respectively, #3/#4 overall in Defense/Offense respectively, and then sweep your first two (2) playoff opponents with 1 superstar and a team full of tomato cans... and truth be told you come across looking like a complete buffoon for continuing to suggest that was the case.

Now... MY work ITT is done. Lick your wounds, take a day or two off to think about the beating you just took, then come back to fight another day.

I didn't take a beating TDK. I got you to write a dissertation that said nothing.

Like I said many times, we have discussed this ad nauseum in prior threads, which you are too chicken to look up, because you know they say nothing that you contend.

I've written about it way too often to go through all the details again, but they lost that series to the Magic for a few big reasons.

One, a few Magic players played above their pay grade for that series. As a team, they shot 41% from 3, and in a few of the victories, Mikael Pietrus, shot lights out, well above his norms. Dwight Howard found a series where he was lights out, shooting 65% from the field and actually making his FTs, hitting them at above 70%. Both those things went back to the norms in the finals, with Pietrus being pedestrian overall, and Howard back to being a 60% FT shooter and scoring 15 a game vs 25 a game he scored against the Cavs, and shooting under 50% from the field compared to 65% against the Cavs.

On the Cavs side, Mo had a few decent games, but generally couldn't hit the ocean standing on a pier in the losses. Those are just facts.

Meanwhile, LeBron scored 38.5 points a game, adding 8+ boards and 8+ dimes per game. Blaming the loss on him is completely irrational. But you are so blinded with hate for LeBron that you are never rational when discussing him.

Like I said in my prior post, just look at what happened with that team when LeBron left. They didn't take a "little dip". They completely imploded. It's not like they went from 55 wins to 48. They went from 61 wins to 19 wins. Sure, there were some other changes at the margin, but they were minimal. The level of implosion was spectacular when he left, and remained spectacular until he returned. They averaged under 25 wins a game for the four years he was gone. When he came back, they won 53 games and made the finals. All those things are just great coincidences right?

You're a buffoon TDK.

[Bush4Ever.]

Data Points/Framing:

The Cavs were -5.9/100 possessions without Lebron in 2009 (if you believe 82games and their data).

For a frame of reference, that's approximately the average rate of Utah, San Antonio, and Toronto combined last year, teams that combined won 26 games on average.

The 2009 Cavs sans Lebron had some capable defensive pieces, but were offensively deranged.

There is definite truth in the idea the Cavs were built around Lebron, but no meaningful collection of offensive talent drops off from "almost the best" to "almost the worst" from subtracting one player. Even the Bulls pulling out peak Jordan and putting him back in ping-ponged the Bulls from "the best or very close" to "average" in terms of offensive production.

A more exaggerated version (both ways) of the effect would the 2006 Lakers, when Kobe had a bigger total swing with an even shittier group of offensive talent than the 2009 Cavs, but got paired with much more defensive support (the Lakers actually performed much better defensively without Kobe than with him that year...not exactly a knock on Kobe since his offensive load that year was absurd).

If you widen the view, and took the 2005-2007 Lakers, they were at -5.0, -5.2, and -7.5 per 100 possessions without Kobe within that time frame, which coincidentally averages to...-5.9/100 possessions.

Their overall net ratings were -3.2, +2.7, and -0.1 those years.

The 2009 Cavs were at +10

The Lakers definitely played tougher competition those years than the Cavs did in 2009 because of conference imbalance...but that's pretty extreme.

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

Data Points/Framing:

The Cavs were -5.9/100 possessions without Lebron in 2009 (if you believe 82games and their data).

For a frame of reference, that's approximately the average rate of Utah, San Antonio, and Toronto combined last year, teams that combined won 26 games on average.

The 2009 Cavs sans Lebron had some capable defensive pieces, but were offensively deranged.

There is definite truth in the idea the Cavs were built around Lebron, but no meaningful collection of offensive talent drops off from "almost the best" to "almost the worst" from subtracting one player. Even the Bulls pulling out peak Jordan and putting him back in ping-ponged the Bulls from "the best or very close" to "average" in terms of offensive production.

A more exaggerated version (both ways) of the effect would the 2006 Lakers, when Kobe had a bigger total swing with an even shittier group of offensive talent than the 2009 Cavs, but got paired with much more defensive support (the Lakers actually performed much better defensively without Kobe than with him that year...not exactly a knock on Kobe since his offensive load that year was absurd).

If you widen the view, and took the 2005-2007 Lakers, they were at -5.0, -5.2, and -7.5 per 100 possessions without Kobe within that time frame, which coincidentally averages to...-5.9/100 possessions.

Their overall net ratings were -3.2, +2.7, and -0.1 those years.

The 2009 Cavs were at +10

The Lakers definitely played tougher competition those years than the Cavs did in 2009 because of conference imbalance...but that's pretty extreme.

Data is a bitch, isn't it?

[Bush4Ever.]

It's not like the impact data and ideas are even at odds with the eye test or general narratives of the time from basketball heads, which is why the pushback on that specific year is so strange.

There is basically nothing counterintuitive to them, and about the only thing that might get missed is the defensive side of the court when thinking about supporting talent, since the mind probably goes to offense first and foremost when thinking about what supporting talent really means.

It's actually kind of funny to think in the eyes of barbershop narrative people, Lebron's 2009 season might be considered more highly in 2024 if he had done worse in the regular season and only led them to a middle seed, and lost in the first round against an equal, or the second round against a team with more wins like the Magic.

Lebron was historically good in 2009. In terms of players that have had better seasons, it ain't much. The best of Jordan for sure. Shaq in 2000 for sure. Lebron's best Miami year or maybe two...probably.

Other than that, I'm not sure anything else would qualify.