Post your NBA Top Ten ATG and criteria

[LNS]

Well I think Curry’s resume is impressive either way. 2 titles, 2 MVP’s, 1 scoring title.... and he has the potential to add more titles to his ledger, maybe some FMVP’s, and by the time he retires I’m positive he’ll crack the top 10 in All Time points, and maybe the top 15-20 in All Time assists... so there’s a lot of room for him to move up the rankings. And there really isn’t another PG outside of Magic that I can think of that has 2+ titles and 2+ MVP’s, so it’s not homer at all to have him as the 2nd best PG of All Time IMO.

Curry was my first pick in that terrible All Time draft we did recently, so I respect what he brings to the table.

He's ideal in those types of scenarios (All Time Drafts) because he's so outstanding off of the ball and he's not a "touch/shot demander."

We both just agreed that Magic is the top PG, but consider this: would you rather have Curry/Jordan or Magic/Jordan? Curry/LeBron or Magic/LeBron? In the case of KAJ you pretty much have to say Magic because of all the non-hypothetical success they had together, but when building a team or pairing superstars I feel that Curry is almost always the better fit than Magic because he has so much impact without the ball (which allows someone else to dominate it).

I agree about fit, but I slightly disagree about Curry not needing touches. During that AT Fantasy draft I was looking for players that weren’t ball dominant, because I was trying to assemble a more team oriented unit. Curry’s usage for the season I selected is 27.59, good for 26th All Time. Ultimately I still decided that his shooting and passing were worth it, but keep in mind that only 5.67 separates Curry’s career high in usage to MJ’s number one Usage rating. And I’ve wondered just how high Steph’s usage would be if he didn’t have to share playmaking responsibilities with Draymond and now Durant. Not a knock on Curry at all, just something I found interesting.

[rtiff68]

Well I think Curry’s resume is impressive either way. 2 titles, 2 MVP’s, 1 scoring title.... and he has the potential to add more titles to his ledger, maybe some FMVP’s, and by the time he retires I’m positive he’ll crack the top 10 in All Time points, and maybe the top 15-20 in All Time assists... so there’s a lot of room for him to move up the rankings. And there really isn’t another PG outside of Magic that I can think of that has 2+ titles and 2+ MVP’s, so it’s not homer at all to have him as the 2nd best PG of All Time IMO.

Curry was my first pick in that terrible All Time draft we did recently, so I respect what he brings to the table.

He's ideal in those types of scenarios (All Time Drafts) because he's so outstanding off of the ball and he's not a "touch/shot demander."

We both just agreed that Magic is the top PG, but consider this: would you rather have Curry/Jordan or Magic/Jordan? Curry/LeBron or Magic/LeBron? In the case of KAJ you pretty much have to say Magic because of all the non-hypothetical success they had together, but when building a team or pairing superstars I feel that Curry is almost always the better fit than Magic because he has so much impact without the ball (which allows someone else to dominate it).

I agree about fit, but I slightly disagree about Curry not needing touches. During that AT Fantasy draft I was looking for players that weren’t ball dominant, because I was trying to assemble a more team oriented unit. Curry’s usage for the season I selected is 27.59, good for 26th All Time. Ultimately I still decided that his shooting and passing were worth it, but keep in mind that only 5.67 separates Curry’s career high in usage to MJ’s number one Usage rating. And I’ve wondered just how high Steph’s usage would be if he didn’t have to share playmaking responsibilities with Draymond and now Durant. Not a knock on Curry at all, just something I found interesting.

No doubt. I guess I should have been more specific: Curry definitely "needs touches" in order for you to get "apex Curry," but Curry "sans touches" is a helluva lot closer to "apex Curry" than Magic/Jordan/LeBron "sans touches/ball dominance" are to their relative peak values, and THAT is what makes him so valuable in such an exercise.

If you have Magic or LeBron sharing the ball with a ball dominant player like Jordan, how much are they really helping you (relative to how much they could be on-ball)? They're not elite jump shooters (or even particularly good), and neither is an all world defensive juggernaut (especially Magic).

[LNS]

He's ideal in those types of scenarios (All Time Drafts) because he's so outstanding off of the ball and he's not a "touch/shot demander."

We both just agreed that Magic is the top PG, but consider this: would you rather have Curry/Jordan or Magic/Jordan? Curry/LeBron or Magic/LeBron? In the case of KAJ you pretty much have to say Magic because of all the non-hypothetical success they had together, but when building a team or pairing superstars I feel that Curry is almost always the better fit than Magic because he has so much impact without the ball (which allows someone else to dominate it).

I agree about fit, but I slightly disagree about Curry not needing touches. During that AT Fantasy draft I was looking for players that weren’t ball dominant, because I was trying to assemble a more team oriented unit. Curry’s usage for the season I selected is 27.59, good for 26th All Time. Ultimately I still decided that his shooting and passing were worth it, but keep in mind that only 5.67 separates Curry’s career high in usage to MJ’s number one Usage rating. And I’ve wondered just how high Steph’s usage would be if he didn’t have to share playmaking responsibilities with Draymond and now Durant. Not a knock on Curry at all, just something I found interesting.

No doubt. I guess I should have been more specific: Curry definitely "needs touches" in order for you to get "apex Curry," but Curry "sans touches" is a helluva lot closer to "apex Curry" than Magic/Jordan/LeBron "sans touches/ball dominance" are to their relative peak values, and THAT is what makes him so valuable in such an exercise.

If you have Magic or LeBron sharing the ball with a ball dominant player like Jordan, how much are they really helping you (relative to how much they could be on-ball)? They're not elite jump shooters (or even particularly good), and neither is an all world defensive juggernaut (especially Magic).

I’m not big on putting multiple ball dominant players on one team, personally; so I agree with your point. But with that said my fantasy team had Curry (ball dominant floor stretcher), Miller (catch and shoot guard), Giannis (ball dominant slasher/playmaker), Malone (ball dominant post player), and Wallace (basically never touches the ball). I chose Curry first because his ability to pull out defenses is on par with Shaq’s ability to pull in defenses. I’ve noticed Curry has almost become underrated lately since Durant joined your squad, it’s kinda weird.

[rtiff68]

I agree about fit, but I slightly disagree about Curry not needing touches. During that AT Fantasy draft I was looking for players that weren’t ball dominant, because I was trying to assemble a more team oriented unit. Curry’s usage for the season I selected is 27.59, good for 26th All Time. Ultimately I still decided that his shooting and passing were worth it, but keep in mind that only 5.67 separates Curry’s career high in usage to MJ’s number one Usage rating. And I’ve wondered just how high Steph’s usage would be if he didn’t have to share playmaking responsibilities with Draymond and now Durant. Not a knock on Curry at all, just something I found interesting.

No doubt. I guess I should have been more specific: Curry definitely "needs touches" in order for you to get "apex Curry," but Curry "sans touches" is a helluva lot closer to "apex Curry" than Magic/Jordan/LeBron "sans touches/ball dominance" are to their relative peak values, and THAT is what makes him so valuable in such an exercise.

If you have Magic or LeBron sharing the ball with a ball dominant player like Jordan, how much are they really helping you (relative to how much they could be on-ball)? They're not elite jump shooters (or even particularly good), and neither is an all world defensive juggernaut (especially Magic).

I’m not big on putting multiple ball dominant players on one team, personally; so I agree with your point. But with that said my fantasy team had Curry (ball dominant floor stretcher), Miller (catch and shoot guard), Giannis (ball dominant slasher/playmaker), Malone (ball dominant post player), and Wallace (basically never touches the ball). I chose Curry first because his ability to pull out defenses is on par with Shaq’s ability to pull in defenses. I’ve noticed Curry has almost become underrated lately since Durant joined your squad, it’s kinda weird.

He went from being a bit overrated (better than LeBron!) to pretty criminally underrated (Westbrook, Harden, and Irving are better!) almost instantly.

I think persona and mentality have a lot to do with public perception in that regard. Can you imagine Kobe leading the Lakers in ppg by 10 and assists in a Finals series and not being voted FMVP? No chance. Could I imagine that happening to Duncan? Absolutely.

All sorts of things enter the narrative with voted on awards, hence why I value them less than several other measurements/achievements.

[Y2K]

Peak
longevity
Respective era
Skill set
Various analytical statistics (BPM, VORP, etc.)

To a lesser extent:

Championships
Raw Annual and career statistics
Yearly awards
Portability

[Odogg]

No doubt. I guess I should have been more specific: Curry definitely "needs touches" in order for you to get "apex Curry," but Curry "sans touches" is a helluva lot closer to "apex Curry" than Magic/Jordan/LeBron "sans touches/ball dominance" are to their relative peak values, and THAT is what makes him so valuable in such an exercise.

If you have Magic or LeBron sharing the ball with a ball dominant player like Jordan, how much are they really helping you (relative to how much they could be on-ball)? They're not elite jump shooters (or even particularly good), and neither is an all world defensive juggernaut (especially Magic).

I’m not big on putting multiple ball dominant players on one team, personally; so I agree with your point. But with that said my fantasy team had Curry (ball dominant floor stretcher), Miller (catch and shoot guard), Giannis (ball dominant slasher/playmaker), Malone (ball dominant post player), and Wallace (basically never touches the ball). I chose Curry first because his ability to pull out defenses is on par with Shaq’s ability to pull in defenses. I’ve noticed Curry has almost become underrated lately since Durant joined your squad, it’s kinda weird.

He went from being a bit overrated (better than LeBron!) to pretty criminally underrated (Westbrook, Harden, and Irving are better!) almost instantly.

I think persona and mentality have a lot to do with public perception in that regard. Can you imagine Kobe leading the Lakers in ppg by 10 and assists in a Finals series and not being voted FMVP? No chance. Could I imagine that happening to Duncan? Absolutely.

All sorts of things enter the narrative with voted on awards, hence why I value them less than several other measurements/achievements.

Yeah I thought Steph didn't get enough love last season, and KD probably got too much.

[FPL]

From the other thread, what I value:

Spoiler:

• Clear footprint of impact (mostly using +/- based metrics)
• Longevity as an impact player (so neither Bill Walton nor Kevin Willis will make my list)
• For offensive anchors, drawing doubles or get the defense to collapse (as are and passing out of both and getting to the line)
• Resiliency, i.e. game translates to the playoffs (little drop of against top defenses or slower pace)
• Consistent defense (equal to offense for bigs, 40/60 with offense for perimeter players, can survive one bad guy there)
• Playmaking and court vision (not all high assist players rate well, not all players who rate well have high assists)
• Portability, i.e. ability to succeed in different situations (with different coaches/supporting casts)
• Value in today's game, as opposed to in a past era (NBA is clearly moving in one direction)

I'm not going to rank Kobe/LeBron today, because both are contentious (and I've been reevaluating them for different reasons). I will give unranked profiles for them at the end, though (you can slot them where you will).

Basically, my list is the order in which I'd draft players if I was going to start a team today:

1. Michael Jordan [High Confidence]
Notes: GOAT motor. GOAT midrange scorer. GOAT first step. Monster athlete. Came up playing team ball. Can play on- or off-ball, can run the pick-and-roll, or ISO, or post up. One of few players who clearly improves in the playoffs/clutch.
Concerns: Obsessed with scoring. The retirement thing affects your window. I would like to scout his 80s seasons more to get data on how good his midrange jumper was early on.

2. Bill Russell [Medium Confidence]
Notes: Best defender ever. GOAT BBIQ. Olympic level athlete in 100m dash, 100m hurdles, high jump. Amazing lateral quickness and second jump. Very good passer and ball-handler (had a better left hand than contemporary Jerry West). One of few players who clearly improves in the playoffs/clutch.
Concerns: Era thing, though less of an issue with big men than other players. Not a great free throw shooter.

3. Hakeem Olajuwon [High Confidence]
Notes: GOAT post game. Great athlete, very mobile. Natural talent and feel for the game (started playing at 17, was a handball prodigy earlier). One of the best defenders ever. One of few players who clearly improves in the playoffs/clutch.
Concerns: Not a strong passer right away. Post-prime isn't anything to write home about. Also, hard to tell what to take from the Sonics matchup.

4. Tim Duncan [High Confidence]
Notes: Succeeded in a variety of situations. Fits into a team concept. Not selfish, can scorer when needed, or find the open man. Aged amazingly well.
Concerns: I think he's overrated defensively early in his career, Robinson helped a lot with some assignments. The matchup vs STAT was a bit weird too. Also, not an elite passer.

5. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar [Low Confidence]
Notes: Probably the first fluid and athletic seven-footer. People talk about the skyhook, but his game wasn't one-dimensional. Could post drive from both sides, and developed a turnaround jumper from the baseline as a counter. Elite paint protector.
Concerns: I think a lot of his great play is due to Robertson and Johnson. Very good defensively, but in an era when the paint was packed (and wasn't mobile like Russell). I prefer Shaq's and Hakeem's offensive approaches. Have a lot of tape on him from the 70s I need to watch more closely.

6. Kevin Garnett [High Confidence]
Notes: Can anchor GOAT defenses. Versatile on both ends, and can fit into any role. Great midrange jumper. Top 3 passer ever for a forward (with Bird and James).
Concerns: I would have liked to see what happened in 04 had Cassell not gotten hurt. Also, even though he's one of the GOAT +/- players, everything fell apart in 05, questions there.

7. Shaquille O'Neal [Medium Confidence]
Notes: Automatic scorer one-on-one. Gets the other side in trouble. People are terrified of driving on him. Great footwork, smart passer. One of few players who clearly improves in the playoffs/clutch.
Concerns: Terrible pick-and-roll defense. Doesn't like defending jump-shooting bigs and can't switch. Feuds with teammates. The free throw thing. Late career is crap.

8. Magic Johnson [High Confidence]
Notes: Could play in a variety of styles, on or off ball. Could control the pace like anyone. Can play big or small ball. With two more quality seasons, he jumps up to 4th or 3rd I'd say.
Concerns: He posted up a lot far from the basket, so I wonder how much the Mark Jackson rule (5 seconds back to the basket) would bother him. Other than that, only issue is longevity. Can't defend his position.

9. David Robinson [High Confidence]
Notes: Underrated longevity, he was a top 5 player from when he came into the league through the Spurs first title. Three more years as an elite defender. GOAT level defender, very mobile and athletic.
Concerns: Came into the league late. 92 and 97 are also seasons that he didn't finish. Also has an offensive resiliency issue in the playoffs.

10. Larry Bird [Medium Confidence]
Notes: Probably GOAT BBIQ. Amazing shooter. Amazing post game. Very good defender early on. Maybe the best playmaker we've ever seen - his touch passes are fantastic.
Concerns: His career is too damn short. He had 9 years before the injury, but the bone spurs affected him in the 88 playoffs, so it's really 8. Not sure what his defensive position would be. Further, the back stuff is something that wouldn't get better today.

11. Karl Malone [Medium Confidence]
Notes: Great scorer. Very solid passer. Nice touch on his jump shot. Defensively made life very tough on his opposition, and had great hands. Very healthy, and strong longevity.
Concerns: Playoff resiliency issues, until he developed that baseline jumper later on. I also don't know what position he'd defend. If I had confidence he could play the 5 today, would move up.

12. Stephen Curry [High Confidence]
Notes: Best shooter ever. Top 5 ball-handling ever for a star. Has people sticking to him like glue off the ball, and draws doubles at half court. Capable passer. Very clutch.
Concerns: His ankles. Also, while he has been damn good so far, he could fall off course. Has a propensity to make bad passes.

13. Dirk Nowitzki [High Confidence]
Notes: Early on was a great pick-and-roll man, both as the handler and the roll screener. Best shooting seven-footer ever. Underrated rebounder. Became a GOAT post player in the second half of his career.
Concerns: Even as he improved, has poor defensive instincts. Not as good a passer as you'd want from your offensive anchor. Wasn't until 08 he became a beast post player, before then he could be shut down in the playoffs.

14. Chris Paul [High Confidence]
Notes: One of the best ball-handlers ever. Great shooter. Amazing defender, impossibly good at his size. Very good playmaker. Has also shown he can succeed off-ball this season.
Concerns: Has consistent health issues. He manages to break down late in the playoffs, and I wonder if it's a size/durability thing. Dominates the ball a bit much.

15. Steve Nash [High Confidence]
Notes: Best drive-and-kick player ever. Elite shooter. Great at getting any man open, tremendous teammate. Can run you off the floor.
Concerns: Didn't take the game seriously early on. If he doesn't run into the right coach, I don't know what he becomes (though in today's game, he'd probably be given the reins early on).

16. Wilt Chamberlain [Low Confidence]
Notes: One of the best paint protectors ever. If you get him in the right role (67, 68 to some degree, 72, 73), he can be an amazing player. I think at this point, I would take the risk. Everyone past here is deeply flawed.
Concerns: Low BBIQ. Turnover prone. Poor post game. Obsessed with box score stats. Needs great coaches. His athleticism is amazing, but not basketball-functional (slow second jump, bad at changing direction/recovery, poor lateral quickness).

17. John Stockton [Medium Confidence]
Notes: Very good passer, including situations where he doesn't get credit (hockey assists, post entry passes). Very tough matchup, an elite defender. Amazing hands. Good shooter.
Concerns: Unproven as a high volume shooter. Low playoff resiliency (perhaps because he wasn't used to shooting). Would've liked to have seen him in different situations. Didn't play high minutes.

18. Kevin Durant [Medium Confidence]
Notes: Can get open against anybody, anywhere. Very good length, can function as a rim protector or a shutdown defender on the perimeter when he wants. One of the best shooters ever. Elite ISO player.
Concerns: How much is he a product of Westbrook and Curry. He has pretty bad handles, though a lot of that is his size. Has a bit of a playoff problem in his career (couldn't post up Chris Paul or Tony Allen). Not a pure ceiling- or floor-raiser.

Unranked. Kobe Bryant [??? Confidence]
Notes: Can create for himself or others from anywhere in the half-court. Very good athlete in his prime. Best bad-shot maker ever, and top 5 shooter while guarded. Underrated passer. Led elite offenses freelancing, and in the triangle (playing both inside-out and outside-in). Not ball-dominant. Because of his offensive versatility, had great offensive resiliency in the playoffs.
Concerns: Not a consistent defender after his first few years. Has a habit of letting guys beat him off the dribble or missing rotations. Fell in love with the fadeaway three too much at the end of his career.

Unranked. LeBron James [??? Confidence]
Notes: Amazing physical force. Has a size and speed matchup against pretty much any player. Very good passer (great at the skip pass). Never gets hurt. Very solid motor. Has become an elite post player ever since 2012 when he started using his size. During his physical prime, was capable of playing incredible defense. Maybe the best player in transition ever.
Concerns: Too ball-dominant. Has not been consistent defensively since 2013 (though the 2016 Finals were amazing). Thinks of the game in terms of the box score at times, and uses triple doubles as a shield for criticism. Never had a consistent midrange jumper.

[Lamelo_Ball]

after reading most of the lists on here i can now see why madness left


even after all this time people still just sum up kobes career as "1 mvp, 2 fmvps"

even with all the daily arguments and proof that it was mainly backlash for the rape trial that cost him multiple mvps and 1a) 1b) for atleast 2 of those 3 with shaq...

theres no other guy on any list that would lose credit for a ring averaging 29/7/6, or 28/6/5


theres also no other guy that would lose credit for dropping 81, 62 in three, 4 straight 50's, 10 games of 50 in 1 season, 40ppg over multiple months while carrying a starting lineup of kwame, smush, cook to the playoffs



its almost like these things didn't happen because he wasn't anointed mvp or finals mvp


why work here truly has failed


i mean sure i was trolling a bunch but i thought some of it would translate into a positive sense


i've hurt him or done nothing to help him. i guess theres no point in being here other than to talk about sandwiches and movies. blah

[Bush4Ever35]

after reading most of the lists on here i can now see why madness left

even after all this time people still just sum up kobes career as "1 mvp, 2 fmvps"

It's like reality literally has no meaning for you.

Unranked. Kobe Bryant [??? Confidence]
Notes: Can create for himself or others from anywhere in the half-court. Very good athlete in his prime. Best bad-shot maker ever, and top 5 shooter while guarded. Underrated passer. Led elite offenses freelancing, and in the triangle (playing both inside-out and outside-in). Not ball-dominant. Because of his offensive versatility, had great offensive resiliency in the playoffs.
Concerns: Not a consistent defender after his first few years. Has a habit of letting guys beat him off the dribble or missing rotations. Fell in love with the fadeaway three too much at the end of his career.

[LNS]

after reading most of the lists on here i can now see why madness left


even after all this time people still just sum up kobes career as "1 mvp, 2 fmvps"

even with all the daily arguments and proof that it was mainly backlash for the rape trial that cost him multiple mvps and 1a) 1b) for atleast 2 of those 3 with shaq...

theres no other guy on any list that would lose credit for a ring averaging 29/7/6, or 28/6/5


theres also no other guy that would lose credit for dropping 81, 62 in three, 4 straight 50's, 10 games of 50 in 1 season, 40ppg over multiple months while carrying a starting lineup of kwame, smush, cook to the playoffs



its almost like these things didn't happen because he wasn't anointed mvp or finals mvp


why work here truly has failed


i mean sure i was trolling a bunch but i thought some of it would translate into a positive sense


i've hurt him or done nothing to help him. i guess theres no point in being here other than to talk about sandwiches and movies. blah

Kobe’s had some amazing scoring runs, and if I was basing my list on “best at playing basketball” then I’d have had him higher (same for Bird, same for Shaq, and Wilt would be my GOAT). But my personal list involved the criteria I listed: titles (team success), personal accolades (MVP’s, FMVP’s, stats titles), and longevity (All Time numbers). You’ll notice that most people put Bird in the top 5-7 range, or have Lebron in the top 3, but I did not. I’m a huge Mamba fan too, so there’s no hate here from me.

[elmouse03]

after reading most of the lists on here i can now see why madness left


even after all this time people still just sum up kobes career as "1 mvp, 2 fmvps"

even with all the daily arguments and proof that it was mainly backlash for the rape trial that cost him multiple mvps and 1a) 1b) for atleast 2 of those 3 with shaq...

theres no other guy on any list that would lose credit for a ring averaging 29/7/6, or 28/6/5


theres also no other guy that would lose credit for dropping 81, 62 in three, 4 straight 50's, 10 games of 50 in 1 season, 40ppg over multiple months while carrying a starting lineup of kwame, smush, cook to the playoffs



its almost like these things didn't happen because he wasn't anointed mvp or finals mvp


why work here truly has failed


i mean sure i was trolling a bunch but i thought some of it would translate into a positive sense


i've hurt him or done nothing to help him. i guess theres no point in being here other than to talk about sandwiches and movies. blah

Kobe’s had some amazing scoring runs, and if I was basing my list on “best at playing basketball” then I’d have had him higher (same for Bird, same for Shaq, and Wilt would be my GOAT). But my personal list involved the criteria I listed: titles (team success), personal accolades (MVP’s, FMVP’s, stats titles), and longevity (All Time numbers). You’ll notice that most people put Bird in the top 5-7 range, or have Lebron in the top 3, but I did not. I’m a huge Mamba fan too, so there’s no hate here from me.

We all know griff will say that you are a fake Kobe fan because you don't obsess about him as much as he does.

[FPL]

If I had to choose a range, Bryant and James would both be after Duncan (4th on my list) and before Bird (10th on my list, so I guess that bumps him down to 12th).

With both guys, it's not a matter of inadequate offense. In the regular season and playoffs, both guys have led elite and league-leading team offenses when on the floor. It's really a matter of inconsistent defense for both of them. Playing 100% on defense while leading elite offenses is a huge toll for sure, but the only perimeter player I have ahead of them is Jordan, who did so consistently in his career. Every other player ahead of them is a dominant defensive big (with the exception of potentially Magic). Kobe wasn't a negative on that end until 2011 though, but it drags down his last three seasons.

In the case of LeBron, poor portability. He is the most ball-dominant top 10ish player (even Magic played off-ball more, particularly earlier in his career). 2014 was an odd season, since he functioned pretty well off-ball. I had hoped his career would continue that way, but then he went back to playing PG on offense. Frustrating.

With a gun to my head, this is where I'd put them:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Bill Russell
3. Hakeem Olajuwon
4. Tim Duncan
5. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
6. Kevin Garnett
7. Shaquille O'Neal
8. Magic Johnson
9. LeBron James
10. Kobe Bryant
11. David Robinson
12. Larry Bird
13. Karl Malone
14. Stephen Curry
15. Dirk Nowitzki
16. Chris Paul
17. Steve Nash
18. Wilt Chamberlain
19. John Stockton
20. Kevin Durant

I'm probably lower on LeBron than most analytics guys, and I respect his game. But I really don't want to build around a player like him - his skillset is built for raising the floors of teams (even those with god awful talent) instead of ceilings. If I weigh portability less, and value raw longevity more, then he probably moves up a few spots.

[Alex_Murphy]

Fuck this thread.

Anyone who doesn’t have Kobe in the top 10 is a sacrilegious hater.

[elmouse03]

Fuck this thread.

Anyone who doesn’t have Kobe in the top 10 is a sacrilegious hater.

Shut your mouth when you post on this board.

[Alex_Murphy]

Fuck this thread.

Anyone who doesn’t have Kobe in the top 10 is a sacrilegious hater.

Shut your mouth when you post on this board.

Shut your mouth you sacrilegious hater. Kobe is arguably GOAT.

[Odogg]

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Magic
5. LBJ
6. Bird
7. Wilt
8. Duncan
9. Kobe
10. Shaq

Hakeem has a case for top ten, but none of this wussy tie stuff here. Someone needs to get snubbed, and it is Hakeem. Definitely a tremendous talent, but other than 86 and of course the two ring years in 94 and 95, there is really not enough playoff resume to point to. When looking at all time rankings, I definitely value rings (lead dog or co lead dog) and playoff performance. Hakeem was too content with a long stretch of mediocrity in Houston.

Then I got

Hakeem
Moses
West
Oscar
?

[Sudanese Sensation]

after reading most of the lists on here i can now see why madness left

Maddy left to find a board where others share his belief that White Shake Griffin, ne Blake Austin Griffin , is an elite talent.

[Odogg]

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Magic
5. LBJ
6. Bird
7. Wilt
8. Duncan
9. Kobe
10. Shaq

Hakeem has a case for top ten, but none of this wussy tie stuff here. Someone needs to get snubbed, and it is Hakeem. Definitely a tremendous talent, but other than 86 and of course the two ring years in 94 and 95, there is really not enough playoff resume to point to. When looking at all time rankings, I definitely value rings (lead dog or co lead dog) and playoff performance. Hakeem was too content with a long stretch of mediocrity in Houston.

Then I got

Hakeem
Moses
West
Oscar
?

Considering KG for 15, possibly Curry.

[FPL]

Oh man. That's terrible.

It isn't very good I guess. That's the problem with a draft list instead of an all-time ranking. My criteria probably changed midway through a few times (btw to be clear, I don't have LeBron/Kobe outside of the top 18, I just didn't rank them in that initial list).

With the idea of a draft list, I'm thinking more and more that it might make sense to go Shaq #1. He was lazy during his career and put on weight, but the reason he really ballooned was because of guys like Sabonis and Longley and such who were just massive bodies. If he plays today, especially with a good coach, he might not ever get much higher than 310-315.

[LNS]

Oh man. That's terrible.

It isn't very good I guess. That's the problem with a draft list instead of an all-time ranking. My criteria probably changed midway through a few times (btw to be clear, I don't have LeBron/Kobe outside of the top 18, I just didn't rank them in that initial list).

With the idea of a draft list, I'm thinking more and more that it might make sense to go Shaq #1. He was lazy during his career and put on weight, but the reason he really ballooned was because of guys like Sabonis and Longley and such who were just massive bodies. If he plays today, especially with a good coach, he might not ever get much higher than 310-315.

If the goal is to maximize a window then Shaq, Bird, Wilt need to be near the top of any draft, IMO.