2015 Anger General Greatest post-merger Players of All Time #43

[vcsgrizzfan]

The latter is true in some seasons...but not all or even a majority.

Disclaimer: Haven't examined nearly all the data intimately and didn't watch the Pistons tons in that time period (college).

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According to his offensive +/- he cost the Pistons approximately 1.5 to 2 points per 100 possessions during his Pistons years.

That strikes me as being somewhat close the average (albeit on the bad side), and not overwhelmingly bad.

In basically all the years the Pistons were a serious contender, he also led the Pistons in *overall* +/- as well.

I haven't looked at the numbers but keep in mind offensive and defensive rating are based on 100 possessions. Ben's biggest contributions on offense outside of bone crushing and intelligent pick setting was the extra possessions he created with offensive boards and tap backs to others which he was an absolutely master at. That would alter the equation considerably.

[Y2K]

I'm my opinion, the wrong Wallace gets the credit for being the biggest key to their success. Outside of the technicals, what Rasheed brought to that team was a taller rangy guy who actually could create his own offense, was an underrated defender, and could spot up and shoot with range. They really took off after he came aboard.

[vcsgrizzfan]

I'm my opinion, the wrong Wallace gets the credit for being the biggest key to their success. Outside of the technicals, what Rasheed brought to that team was a taller rangy guy who actually could create his own offense, was an underrated defender, and could spot up and shoot with range. They really took off after he came aboard.

Rasheed was a great addition and they needed another big body for certain. He clearly was needed to get them over the top. But your overall point is stupid.

[Y2K]

I'm my opinion, the wrong Wallace gets the credit for being the biggest key to their success. Outside of the technicals, what Rasheed brought to that team was a taller rangy guy who actually could create his own offense, was an underrated defender, and could spot up and shoot with range. They really took off after he came aboard.

Rasheed was a great addition and they needed another big body for certain. He clearly was needed to get them over the top. But your overall point is stupid.

They don't win that championship without either guy That season...well all 5 starters. Just about all 5 of them have some resemblance of an argument.

As for later down the line, they were no worse without Ben.

[Bush4Ever]

I don't think Y2K's position is *ridiculous* at all.

To me, it was closer to a collective effort than most title (or contending) teams. I do think Ben Wallace's contributions were the most important, but it's by a somewhat modest amount, not an overwhelming one.

I will say though, that it's generally better to evaluate within year rather than a non-experimental pre-post strategy if you want to get the best sense of someone's impact, mainly because it does a much better job of eliminating the influence of confounding variables.

[Y2K]

I don't think Y2K's position is *ridiculous* at all.

To me, it was closer to a collective effort than most title (or contending) teams. I do think Ben Wallace's contributions were the most important, but it's by a somewhat modest amount, not an overwhelming one.

I will say though, that it's generally better to evaluate within year rather than a non-experimental pre-post strategy if you want to get the best sense of someone's impact, mainly because it does a much better job of eliminating the influence of confounding variables.

I'm not sure if I was clear on my stance with Ben. I am evaluating the time frame from his first season under Carlisle in 2001 until 2006 and trying to make a strong connection with the sustained success on defense post-Ben until the breakup of the team.

[Y2K]

So nominees to be added are:

Manu

Ben Wallace

T-Mac

Chris Mullin

Chauncey Billups

Kevin Johnson

[Odogg]

No. 42 is no. 42.

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[Robceltsfan]

Tough call on the nominations...

To me, Mullin and KJ are the odd men out. T-Mac is the "best player" of the remaining 4....but his lack of winning in the playoffs is a big black eye.

Fuck it...I'll go with T-Mac and Wallace.

[Y2K]

Tough call on the nominations...

To me, Mullin and KJ are the odd men out. T-Mac is the "best player" of the remaining 4....but his lack of winning in the playoffs is a big black eye.

Fuck it...I'll go with T-Mac and Wallace.

T-Mac lacked the drive to be a fierce competitor. It's sad because He was a great talent before the injuries took over

[Y2K]

We're fairly short on votes but we'll end the round at 7 pm CST.

[americaninfidel]

Ginobili and Billups.

[Odogg]

Manu and Chauncey

[PhutureDynasty]

Wallace and McGrady.