I disagree. That may have been the case in the 70's....but in this day of "epic trilogies" that just isn't the case anymore.
I'm getting confused. I'm not very smart, I guess.
I apologize for not understanding that Snoke, while being the ringleader, is the villain despite only appearing in hologram form and interacting with two people. And not the guy driving the action for 2 hours.
I'm only being slightly facetious. Again, probably comes down to semantics.
The answer is in the middle. I agree that Ren is A villain, but to me he's not THE villain. Episode IV was made as a stand-alone film and Vader was the villain of that movie....even though the next two episodes (and eventually the prior three) saw that it was Palpatine/The Emperor that was pulling all the strings.
Knowing that history, and knowing that there are two films still to follow TFA, makes it pretty simple for one to assume that Snoke is the true villain of the trilogy.
Maybe we'll be surprised by a twist? I doubt it though...
Gotcha. Fair enough.
But even though I was just a kid, I looked at Darth Vader as THE villain of the first two films.
ripper76 wrote:The movie does work fairly well on its own, but if you want an explanation for why Ren is too "emo" or doesn't come across the same way Vader did in Episode IV, it's because of where Ren is at developmentally in the larger story arc.
Vader had his "dark moment" when he killed Windu in Episode III....years before Episode IV. Ren had his dark moment IN this movie....not the prior episode.
Ren is certainly a lot closer to Anakin in Episode III than Vader in Episode IV and it seems pretty clear that's what Abrams was going for. Now I hated the prequels, but the are canon, so going back and exploring the same themes is fine with me. I think the Ren character and his descent to the dark side is presented a lot more coherently and logically than was Anakin and his transition to Vader.
I also wouldn't be surprised if Ren isn't redeemed in a later episode and turns from the Dark Side. I think later episodes are going to diverge more from the exact same themes as the earlier movies.
ripper76 wrote:I also wouldn't be surprised if Ren isn't redeemed in a later episode and turns from the Dark Side. I think later episodes are going to diverge more from the exact same themes as the earlier movies.
Sure. It goes back to my first post in this thread. This movie was deliberately made to revisit the original trilogy to prove to audiences that the series is worth going apeshit crazy about again. It's NOT gonna be like the prequels, we promise!
Now, that they have everybody's attention... I would expect less of a paint-by-numbers approach.
ripper76 wrote:I also wouldn't be surprised if Ren isn't redeemed in a later episode and turns from the Dark Side. I think later episodes are going to diverge more from the exact same themes as the earlier movies.
Sure. It goes back to my first post in this thread. This movie was deliberately made to revisit the original trilogy to prove to audiences that the series is worth going apeshit crazy about again. It's NOT gonna be like the prequels, we promise!
Now, that they have everybody's attention... I would expect less of a paint-by-numbers approach.
I made that same point a couple weeks ago in underbite's thread about the movie. This movie had to be done this way to get the franchise back on course and mend fences with the fans.
I should clarify my prior post. I wouldn't be surprised to see Ren turn before becoming a Vader level villain.
ripper76 wrote:I also wouldn't be surprised if Ren isn't redeemed in a later episode and turns from the Dark Side. I think later episodes are going to diverge more from the exact same themes as the earlier movies.
Sure. It goes back to my first post in this thread. This movie was deliberately made to revisit the original trilogy to prove to audiences that the series is worth going apeshit crazy about again. It's NOT gonna be like the prequels, we promise!
Now, that they have everybody's attention... I would expect less of a paint-by-numbers approach.
I made that same point a couple weeks ago in underbite's thread about the movie. This movie had to be done this way to get the franchise back on course and mend fences with the fans.
I should clarify my prior post. I wouldn't be surprised to see Ren turn before becoming a Vader level villain.
I have a feeling we will see a drastic change in the next movie. We will not see Empire Strikes Back 2.0. I think Rian Johnson is a much better director than that. Especially at telling a story. He wrote and directed two of the best episodes of Breaking Bad.
I agree we may see Ren change to good earlier with Snoke becoming more prominent. I don't know. They have our attention now. They will go where they want now with the story.
Bush4Ever wrote:I heard some nerd who definitely isn't me say that Darth Plagueis is Snoke, and this will be the big reveal of (probably) the next movie.
I haven't thought too much about it, but the more I think about it the more I'm on board with the idea, both the evidence for it and how it feels to the story.
Taking a break from the board. Please reference my last post for more details if you are interested.
