Robceltsfan wrote:Take a look at that video, and most importantly, pay attention to quotes from guys like MJ, Kobe, Duncan, Garnett, etc. about the advent of zone defense in the NBA and how its effect on star players was worse than anything the non-zone era could produce.
40-year old-man Jordan averaged 20/6/4/45% against the Zone.
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
l3 o $$ wrote:Hand-Checking. Hand-checking is defined as illegal contact by a defensive player which impedes the forward and/or lateral movement of the offensive player. Hand-checking should be dealt with early in the game, with particular attention being paid during perimeter play and drives to the basket.
Clyde Drexler: "In my day, defenders played you with two hands and an elbow. You're not getting by a guy, especially if he has an elbow and a hand on you, and is a strong defensive player. Take that away, oh my goodness, it's open season. You can't touch the perimeter players today, and the guy with the ball has such a huge advantage because of the first step. He knows where he is going on that first step and the defensive player can't do anything about it. You better hope that you have a seven-footer behind you to protect the basket or it's over.
...and of course, today you don't have 7-footers protecting the basket because they're all on the perimeter chuckin' jumpers.
That said, Steph Curry in the hand-check era = Reggie Miller... which is nothing to be ashamed of, of course.
Why would a 7 footer not be protecting the basket on defense because he's shooting perimeter jumpers on offense?
There are several pretty good shot blocking bigs in the NBA today.
I don't buy much of that video Robceltsfan and I don't buy much of dumb quotes from "back in my day" Drexler.
I think if anything Curry would have had more success in the 90s than he does now because of his incredibly quick release and the fact that the game was more focused on the post than the perimeter back then. He's hardly a spot up shooter or a guy who has to rely on screens all the time. Everybody in the freaking building knows you have to control him and he can still get his shot. If he were a selfish player looking to 'get his' all the time, Lord knows what he could average - but it would be stupid.
Robceltsfan wrote:Take a look at that video, and most importantly, pay attention to quotes from guys like MJ, Kobe, Duncan, Garnett, etc. about the advent of zone defense in the NBA and how its effect on star players was worse than anything the non-zone era could produce.
40-year old-man Jordan averaged 20/6/4/45% against the Zone.
So the second worst year of his career? Makes sense.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are dumber than that.
Madnessssss wrote:I disagree about the theory that MJ could have been a deadly 3 point shooter. You don't have to be practicing that from 3 years old. You can't even shoot properly when you're too young and weak.
Curry learned to shoot properly only during his college career. He spent a month with his dad completely re-working his stroke. MJ could have done the same at any point in his career. He wasn't as good a shooter because he wasn't as good a shooter.
.
Don't buy that. There are far more consistently good 3 point shooters now despite it being defended more aggressively than back then. I think a huge part of that is growing up with the shot.
l3 o $$ wrote:Hand-Checking. Hand-checking is defined as illegal contact by a defensive player which impedes the forward and/or lateral movement of the offensive player. Hand-checking should be dealt with early in the game, with particular attention being paid during perimeter play and drives to the basket.
Clyde Drexler: "In my day, defenders played you with two hands and an elbow. You're not getting by a guy, especially if he has an elbow and a hand on you, and is a strong defensive player. Take that away, oh my goodness, it's open season. You can't touch the perimeter players today, and the guy with the ball has such a huge advantage because of the first step. He knows where he is going on that first step and the defensive player can't do anything about it. You better hope that you have a seven-footer behind you to protect the basket or it's over.
...and of course, today you don't have 7-footers protecting the basket because they're all on the perimeter chuckin' jumpers.
That said, Steph Curry in the hand-check era = Reggie Miller... which is nothing to be ashamed of, of course.
Why would a 7 footer not be protecting the basket on defense because he's shooting perimeter jumpers on offense? [/video]
Because he's guarding the 7-footer (on the perimeter) on Offense, dunski...
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
Robceltsfan wrote:Take a look at that video, and most importantly, pay attention to quotes from guys like MJ, Kobe, Duncan, Garnett, etc. about the advent of zone defense in the NBA and how its effect on star players was worse than anything the non-zone era could produce.
40-year old-man Jordan averaged 20/6/4/45% against the Zone.
So the second worst year of his career? Makes sense.
40-years old, genius.
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
thedangerouskitchen wrote:
Clyde Drexler: "In my day, defenders played you with two hands and an elbow. You're not getting by a guy, especially if he has an elbow and a hand on you, and is a strong defensive player. Take that away, oh my goodness, it's open season. You can't touch the perimeter players today, and the guy with the ball has such a huge advantage because of the first step. He knows where he is going on that first step and the defensive player can't do anything about it. You better hope that you have a seven-footer behind you to protect the basket or it's over.
...and of course, today you don't have 7-footers protecting the basket because they're all on the perimeter chuckin' jumpers.
That said, Steph Curry in the hand-check era = Reggie Miller... which is nothing to be ashamed of, of course.
Why would a 7 footer not be protecting the basket on defense because he's shooting perimeter jumpers on offense? [/video]
Because he's guarding the 7-footer (on the perimeter) on Offense, dunski...
Uh huh. That makes a lot of sense. So the 7 footers are all guarding themselves? Impressive that a 7 footer would be getting nearly 5 blocks a game guarding himself while he's shooting threes on offense. Very impressive.
Why would a 7 footer not be protecting the basket on defense because he's shooting perimeter jumpers on offense? [/video]
Because he's guarding the 7-footer (on the perimeter) on Offense, dunski...
Uh huh. That makes a lot of sense. So the 7 footers are all guarding themselves? Impressive that a 7 footer would be getting nearly 5 blocks a game guarding himself while he's shooting threes on offense. Very impressive.
Who is out on the perimeter defending the 7-footers on the opposite team? PG's?
You're being stupid on purpose... I hope.
Dunski.
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
Madnessssss wrote:I disagree about the theory that MJ could have been a deadly 3 point shooter. You don't have to be practicing that from 3 years old. You can't even shoot properly when you're too young and weak.
Curry learned to shoot properly only during his college career. He spent a month with his dad completely re-working his stroke. MJ could have done the same at any point in his career. He wasn't as good a shooter because he wasn't as good a shooter.
Jordan fans making that statement are the same ones laughing when Lebron said he could shooting 90% from the line if he wanted to.
Homeriffic.
Except FT shooting has ALWAYS been part of the game....no correlation whatsoever.
You seriously trying to claim that if the 3 point line existed, let alone was as big a factor in MJ's "formative" years as it is now, that there is no chance he would have been a MUCH better 3 point shooter(along with MANY more from his era and before) than he was....lol....Cmon man...get real.
He added it to his arsenal and improved upon it as it was, just like his post game.
thedangerouskitchen wrote:
Because he's guarding the 7-footer (on the perimeter) on Offense, dunski...
Uh huh. That makes a lot of sense. So the 7 footers are all guarding themselves? Impressive that a 7 footer would be getting nearly 5 blocks a game guarding himself while he's shooting threes on offense. Very impressive.
Who is out on the perimeter defending the 7-footers on the opposite team? PG's?
Madnessssss wrote:I disagree about the theory that MJ could have been a deadly 3 point shooter. You don't have to be practicing that from 3 years old. You can't even shoot properly when you're too young and weak.
Curry learned to shoot properly only during his college career. He spent a month with his dad completely re-working his stroke. MJ could have done the same at any point in his career. He wasn't as good a shooter because he wasn't as good a shooter.
Jordan fans making that statement are the same ones laughing when Lebron said he could shooting 90% from the line if he wanted to.
Homeriffic.
Except FT shooting has ALWAYS been part of the game....no correlation whatsoever.
You seriously trying to claim that if the 3 point line existed, let alone was as big a factor in MJ's "formative" years as it is now, that there is no chance he would have been a MUCH better 3 point shooter(along with MANY more from his era and before) than he was....lol....Cmon man...get real.
He added it to his arsenal and improved upon it as it was, just like his post game.
Yup... MJ broke NBA Finals records for 3-point shooting JUST because critics decided they wanted to question his shooting range. So on the biggest stage in the NBA Mike, as he always did, embarrassed the naysayers.
No question about it, if he spent as much time practicing the shot as do player today Jordan would have been an elite-of-elite 3-point shooter.
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
ripper76 wrote:
Uh huh. That makes a lot of sense. So the 7 footers are all guarding themselves? Impressive that a 7 footer would be getting nearly 5 blocks a game guarding himself while he's shooting threes on offense. Very impressive.
Who is out on the perimeter defending the 7-footers on the opposite team? PG's?
You're being stupid on purpose... I hope.
Dunski.
You seem agitated.
For once you're right... your utter stupidity is annoying.
Now go fetch my slippers and let the adults talk, mkay.
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
Madnessssss wrote:I disagree about the theory that MJ could have been a deadly 3 point shooter. You don't have to be practicing that from 3 years old. You can't even shoot properly when you're too young and weak.
Curry learned to shoot properly only during his college career. He spent a month with his dad completely re-working his stroke. MJ could have done the same at any point in his career. He wasn't as good a shooter because he wasn't as good a shooter.
.
Don't buy that. There are far more consistently good 3 point shooters now despite it being defended more aggressively than back then. I think a huge part of that is growing up with the shot.
Your hatred of MJ gets old, even in trolling.
Assuming someone could have become a deadly 3 point shooter with no evidence is lame. Lebron can't do it. Kobe couldn't do it consistently. Wade couldn't do it. MJ was a better player, but what made him better has nothing to do with whether he could have been an elite 3 point shooter.
There's more elite 3 shooters now because teams figured out that taller players have an advantage here. So you got Dirk, durant, love and other big guys with a green light to practice and shoot 3s. That used to be sacrilege. Average sized point guards, shooting guards and small forwards don't seem like anything special from 3 to me compared to the past.
And even if they are statistically, I doubt any of them were doing it in high school. Curry developed his shot as a fully grown adult in college.
Curry is good but the hype is getting a little ridiculous now. He aint that good. Dude can't even win a FMVP :stephen a:
Hes got a ways to go to be mentioned alongside the elites. People need to realize as well, there ain't many great teams in the league anymore. Its very watered down and the fundamentals of the game are essentially obsolete.
A lot of the greats have retired, and alot of the great teams are gone.. Hell, the West sucks now too. So basically BOTH conferences are bad.
Last edited by DorianRo on Sat Dec 05, 2015 2:29 am, edited 4 times in total.
With the stress of the 3-pt shot in today's game, plus the loose defense on the perimeter, Jordan would terrorize the league to its core, and be the most unguardable force in the history of the world.
That's how good he was WITHOUT the way the game is being played today.
Last edited by dwcmwa on Sat Dec 05, 2015 2:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
I really think most of this argument is tired baloney now.
There was a period from 2006 (where it peaked with the strictest enforcement of hand check rules) that really benefitted slashers disproportionately. But at this point, it's no longer the case. Between zones, defenses just getting more sophisticated and significantly less strict enforcement of hand check rules, the advantages for slashers have been pretty diminished.
The use of more zones and allowing doubling on a guy without the ball has made post players less relevant and that slack has been taken up by a lot more 3 point shooting.
But thinking Curry wouldn't light up the 90s like a Christmas tree is nonsense.
Except FT shooting has ALWAYS been part of the game....no correlation whatsoever.
You seriously trying to claim that if the 3 point line existed, let alone was as big a factor in MJ's "formative" years as it is now, that there is no chance he would have been a MUCH better 3 point shooter(along with MANY more from his era and before) than he was....lol....Cmon man...get real.
He added it to his arsenal and improved upon it as it was, just like his post game.
Yup... MJ broke NBA Finals records for 3-point shooting JUST because critics decided they wanted to question his shooting range. So on the biggest stage in the NBA Mike, as he always did, embarrassed the naysayers.
No question about it, if he spent as much time practicing the shot as do player today Jordan would have been an elite-of-elite 3-point shooter.
He was dared to shoot. Kind of like when Lebron gets hot from 3. Defense was sagging. Kobe owns the record for 14 threes made in a game. He still was no steph curry from 3.
I don't think anyone is claiming that he would have ever been on Curry's level from 3, no matter the circumstances.....Curry may be the best EVER at that....that isn't the point....and No, MJ wasn't "dared" to shoot from 3....lol
DorianRo wrote:Curry is good but the hype is getting a little ridiculous now. He aint that good. Dude can't even win a FMVP :stephen a:
Hes got a ways to go to be mentioned alongside the elites. People need to realize as well, there ain't main great teams in the league anymore. Its very watered down and the fundamentals of the game are essentially obsolete.
Absolutely correct... although I'd say Curry is playing better now than Kobe ever has. Then again, Kobe's not in the elite-of-elite class anyway (ie' Top 10 all-time) so the point is moot.
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
