2015 Anger General Greatest post-merger Players of All Time #36

[wailuaFC]

I'd like to hear an argument for why Worthy isn't at least nominated.

Not really surprised but simply curious.

He's another one that should be on here. He has rings and a Finals MVP and his playoff stats went up considerably while Zo's numbers dropped.

I know Worthy gets a little overrated in some people's eyes but now is the appropriate time to have him at least in contention.

I'd also like to nominate James Worthy if possible.

I'd take him over Reggie I think

[Y2K]

I'd like to hear an argument for why Worthy isn't at least nominated.

Not really surprised but simply curious.

He's another one that should be on here. He has rings and a Finals MVP and his playoff stats went up considerably while Zo's numbers dropped.

Worthy, whilet being a good player, was never a player who was considered a top 10 player in his day. He doesn't have great longevity.

He appears to be such a great postseason player statistically but he also was starting at a lower baseline while not having to be THE guy. He was a decent secondary scorer that was not anything but average at best at every other aspect of the game. That 1988 game 7, while a splendid performance, isn't enough to make up for being a clear cut secondary player for his entire career.

[Bush4Ever]

I think it's fairly obvious that Worthy would not have done much of anything if he were in the lead dog position of guys like Nique, Mourning, Ray Allen, Reggie, etc...

But I agree we can start to include him now.

[PhutureDynasty]

I think it's fairly obvious that Worthy would not have done much of anything if he were in the lead dog position of guys like Nique, Mourning, Ray Allen, Reggie, etc...

But I agree we can start to include him now.

Just to make conversation is it better to take a secondary, sometimes 3rd option role like Worthy to win titles or be a Reggie Miller, Dominique Wilkins type star but not win a championship?

Which do you rank higher?

[AbeVigodaLive]

I'd like to hear an argument for why Worthy isn't at least nominated.

Not really surprised but simply curious.

He's another one that should be on here. He has rings and a Finals MVP and his playoff stats went up considerably while Zo's numbers dropped.

Worthy, whilet being a good player, was never a player who was considered a top 10 player in his day. He doesn't have great longevity.

He appears to be such a great postseason player statistically but he also was starting at a lower baseline while not having to be THE guy. He was a decent secondary scorer that was not anything but average at best at every other aspect of the game. That 1988 game 7, while a splendid performance, isn't enough to make up for being a clear cut secondary player for his entire career.

Interesting Worthy stat:

17.6 ppg regular season.
21.1 ppg playoffs.
22.2 ppg in the Finals.

[Bush4Ever]

Just to make conversation is it better to take a secondary, sometimes 3rd option role like Worthy to win titles or be a Reggie Miller, Dominique Wilkins type star but not win a championship?

Which do you rank higher?

I don't think there is a cut and dry answer, because after all, it is perfectly possible for a 2nd option on Team A to *actually* be a superior player to the 1st option on Team B, depending on how talented the teams are and how that talent is distributed. To give an extreme example, the 5th option on the original Dream Team was better than almost all the 1st options playing today.

I think a good thing to think about is how transportable the 3rd options game may be to various situations and contexts outside the one they are playing in. To the degree it is transportable, I might be less inclined to penalize them.

In Worthy's case though I think there are some pretty good arguments/observations that would lead one to conclude that his individual success was tied to his situation a little bit more than most.

[americaninfidel]

Wilkins.

[Havlicekstealsit]

I feel like we've entered superfluous range here, but I'll go with Ray Allen. Worthy deserves some mention as he often raised his significance in the playoffs, and punctuated it with a FMVP.

[wailuaFC]

Grant hill should be on this list pretty soon, he probably has the highest peak of anyone not picked yet and despite having such a short peak he racked up 7 all star games, 5 top 10 MVP finishes, and stacked up very impressively to his peers in just about every advanced stat. In just his second season 95-96 he averaged 20/10/7, was 5th in defensive win shares, and had more defensive rebounds then anyone in the league not named David Robinson, he was a damn lot better then Reggie Miller

[Macrotus]

I think it's fairly obvious that Worthy would not have done much of anything if he were in the lead dog position of guys like Nique, Mourning, Ray Allen, Reggie, etc...

But I agree we can start to include him now.

wtf...he led his college team to a championship...something MJ couldn't do after he left.

[Y2K]

Grant hill should be on this list pretty soon, he probably has the highest peak of anyone not picked yet and despite having such a short peak he racked up 7 all star games, 5 top 10 MVP finishes, and stacked up very impressively to his peers in just about every advanced stat. In just his second season 95-96 he averaged 20/10/7, was 5th in defensive win shares, and had more defensive rebounds then anyone in the league not named David Robinson, he was a damn lot better then Reggie Miller

Even in those Suns years, you could see flashes of his old brilliance. I definitely agree that he should be one of the next guys on the list.

[dwcmwa]

Dominique

[Y2K]

Another player that I feel needs mentioning is Sidney Moncrief. That 5 year run before the injuries was outstanding.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Steph Curry's 5-year run has to be gaining momentum...

[Y2K]

Steph Curry's 5-year run has to be gaining momentum...

I would say that last season's run will probably get him in the top 50 before it's all said and done.

[Y2K]

Just to make conversation is it better to take a secondary, sometimes 3rd option role like Worthy to win titles or be a Reggie Miller, Dominique Wilkins type star but not win a championship?

Which do you rank higher?

I don't think there is a cut and dry answer, because after all, it is perfectly possible for a 2nd option on Team A to *actually* be a superior player to the 1st option on Team B, depending on how talented the teams are and how that talent is distributed. To give an extreme example, the 5th option on the original Dream Team was better than almost all the 1st options playing today.

I think a good thing to think about is how transportable the 3rd options game may be to various situations and contexts outside the one they are playing in. To the degree it is transportable, I might be less inclined to penalize them.

In Worthy's case though I think there are some pretty good arguments/observations that would lead one to conclude that his individual success was tied to his situation a little bit more than most.

His situation was tied a lot more to his individual success than his peers...and many others after him.

[Odogg]

Nique.

BTW, LOL at Ray Allen being on the main voting list while Worthy has not even been on the consideration list.

Midwest/East Coast bias much?

[Odogg]

Let's see, Ray Allen had a couple standout scoring years on average teams, followed by a 3rd dog ring on the Cs, followed by a bench role player ring on the cHeat.

Great 3 point shooter, sure, but not much else. Why is he on the main list again?

[Odogg]

Does this mean Kyle Korver is going be get nominated soon?

[wailuaFC]

Let's see, Ray Allen had a couple standout scoring years on average teams, followed by a 3rd dog ring on the Cs, followed by a bench role player ring on the cHeat.

Great 3 point shooter, sure, but not much else. Why is he on the main list again?

Come on brotha, you have to be a little more unbiased. The only above average trait worthy brought was high volume efficient scoring, which may or may not have been a product of the best offense and best distributor the league has ever seen but that's another discussion, and Ray Allen is better then him at that with not only more ppg, ppg per 100 possessions, and a higher ts%, but he also has more all star selections, more MVP win shares, constantly was in the top 10 for OBPM and ortg (worthy never was), and has that whole claim to being the second best 3 point shooter ever thing going for him. I'd love to hear an argument for worthy, but there isn't one