Scottie Pippen: "I was LeBron James before LeBron James"

[Robceltsfan]

Yes and having those teammates takes a shit ton of pressure off Lebron where as Pippen had the load on himself.

So why couldn't he post better numbers when he had the greatest offensive player of all-time in the lineup then? Pippen only shot better than 50% twice in his career and never was higher than 37% from three.

Like I said, you guys can find plenty of excuses (or say that you're simply trolling), but none of it changes the fact that Lebron is much closer to Jordan than Pippen is to Lebron.

I've stated many times in here that Lebron is better. Not sure how that's trolling when I'm flat out agreeing that he isn't as good as Lebron.

Then stop responding in favor of Pippen maybe?

[vcsgrizzfan]

..lol, people are saying things simply because they don't like certain Bulls fans on here, and that is gold...there is nothing to discuss ladies, this issue is speculative at best and nothing more...

It's speculative in the same way that we can "only" speculate you won't get a sex change operation today.

It is an opinion, but it's an opinion confirmed by every single piece of evidence on the table.

..like I said, this is all driven by anger towards one fan base...and I'm not even a Bulls fan per se...

It's driven by whether or not you have a brain. Evidently, you don't.

[Bush4Ever]

..like I said, this is all driven by anger towards one fan base...and I'm not even a Bulls fan per se...

Nope. I have no particular dislike for the Bulls, Jordan, or Pippen. Honestly, my opinions on Pippen are usually more generous than the average fan (perhaps a little less generous than the average fan for Jordan though).

Jordan is arguably the GOAT.
Pippen is somewhere in the 20-25 range or so.
Lebron is at the back end of the top 10.
Jordan is clearly better than Lebron who is clearly better than Pippen.

Troll lol loling aside, it's not hard to understand.

[vcsgrizzfan]

..like I said, this is all driven by anger towards one fan base...and I'm not even a Bulls fan per se...

Nope. I have no particular dislike for the Bulls, Jordan, or Pippen.

Jordan is arguably the GOAT.
Pippen is somewhere in the 20-25 range or so.
Lebron is at the back end of the top 10.
Jordan is clearly better than Lebron who is clearly better than Pippen.

Troll lol loling aside, it's not hard to understand.

Pretty much. If you assembled 100 basketball 'experts', their opinions would converge at or near what you've suggested.

[jordanzone]

..rob, lol....this isn't about whether someone believes or not that Pip is as good as Bron offensively...it's about a gap between them from both perspectives, offense/defense...and again, using numbers when Pip was the lead after having been a sidekick for 7 years, is just down right amusing...

..different roles/schemes, MUCH different eras means we speculate, unless you can come up with some evidence to show Pip's numbers in a lead role from day 1 or factor in the contrast in eras...

[jordanzone]

..like I said, this is all driven by anger towards one fan base...and I'm not even a Bulls fan per se...

Nope. I have no particular dislike for the Bulls, Jordan, or Pippen. Honestly, my opinions on Pippen are usually more generous than the average fan (perhaps a little less generous than the average fan for Jordan though).

Jordan is arguably the GOAT.
Pippen is somewhere in the 20-25 range or so.
Lebron is at the back end of the top 10.
Jordan is clearly better than Lebron who is clearly better than Pippen.

Troll lol loling aside, it's not hard to understand.

..*fanbase, not team/players....anyway...

..the gap between them is not what you are making it out to be, imo, and again, nothing can be confirmed as factual when the variables won't allow that...let's get one thing straight, Bron is better offensively, Pip is better defensively...it's about this "gap"...you make it out to be Bron is light years ahead of Pip offensively that it trumps however far Pip is ahead of Bron defensively...I say it's closer, you say it's not, and that is fine...we'll agree to disagree...I'm simply not going to keep playing this circular game...

[Bush4Ever]

..rob, lol....this isn't about whether someone believes or not that Pip is as good as Bron offensively...it's about a gap between them from both perspectives, offense/defense...and again, using numbers when Pip was the lead after having been a sidekick for 7 years, is just down right amusing...

..different roles/schemes, MUCH different eras means we speculate, unless you can come up with some evidence to show Pip's numbers in a lead role from day 1 or factor in the contrast in eras...

There is no difference in eras/roles/etc that explains the magnitude of difference between the two in terms of overall impact. Zip, zero, none.

Like I illustrated in the other thread, Lebron at his peak produced roughly 50 percent more value than Pippen at his peak.

That is a freakishly huge difference.

[Bush4Ever]

..the gap between them is not what you are making it out to be, imo, and again, nothing can be confirmed as factual when the variables won't allow that...let's get one thing straight, Bron is better offensively, Pip is better defensively.

So, nothing can be confirmed as factual because "the variables don't allow it", but we still know as a fact that Lebron is better offensively and Pippen defensively?

Good job. I can see you've thought this through carefully.

[jordanzone]

..grizz, I think at this point everyone gets that you would blow Bush at the drop of his pants...enough already...YES, he's a smart guy, but that doesn't always make him right...

[jordanzone]

..the gap between them is not what you are making it out to be, imo, and again, nothing can be confirmed as factual when the variables won't allow that...let's get one thing straight, Bron is better offensively, Pip is better defensively.

So, nothing can be confirmed as factual because "the variables don't allow it", but we still know as a fact that Lebron is better offensively and Pippen defensively?

Good job. I can see you've thought this through carefully.

..on the surface, yes we do....how far the gap is when digging further to find this gap, we don't...hello?

[vcsgrizzfan]

..grizz, I think at this point everyone gets that you would blow Bush at the drop of his pants...enough already...YES, he's a smart guy, but that doesn't always make him right...

His arguments hold water and are based on facts. Yours are based on nothing. I don't need Bush4Ever to tell me what is obvious to anyone with a reasonable basketball IQ.

Your only role on this board is to blow dwcmwa and thedangerouskitchen and bitch about moderation. Maybe you should try thinking without bias instead of accusing others of being influenced by bias. Your lack of self awareness isn't as bad as TDK's, but it's not hugely behind.

[Robceltsfan]

..rob, lol....this isn't about whether someone believes or not that Pip is as good as Bron offensively...it's about a gap between them from both perspectives, offense/defense...and again, using numbers when Pip was the lead after having been a sidekick for 7 years, is just down right amusing...

..different roles/schemes, MUCH different eras means we speculate, unless you can come up with some evidence to show Pip's numbers in a lead role from day 1 or factor in the contrast in eras...

OK, I'm probably getting trolled, but I'm bored at work so I'll play along.

TDK earlier said that defense was "half of the game". This couldn't be farther from the truth. Offenses score at will in the NBA. Even all-time great defenses gave up 90+ points per game. It's an offensive sport catered to offensive players. That being said, Pippen's defense is certainly better than Lebron's, I wouldn't dare to speak otherwise. But would you say that Pippen is one of the 5 best defensive players of all-time? (maybe you would, but let's put that aside for now)

Lebron IS one of the best offensive players in history. His scoring numbers prove it. His shooting numbers (in general) prove it. His assist numbers prove it. Between points AND assists it's arguable to say that Lebron is possibly the most valuable offensive player the game has ever seen. (NOTE: I did not say greatest scorer, please take notice of that). Outside of Big O in the inflated 60's, not a soul in NBA history can hold a candle to the all-around statistics that Lebron has garnered over his career. Not Jordan, not Kobe, not Magic. Bird comes close, but even he wasn't able to score as well as Lebron has so far....not particularly close either (other than 2 seasons).

I gave the example of Pippen and Lebron as lead dogs, at the same age, with near identical shots taken and minutes played. The comparison isn't close. And Pippen's efficiency wasn't any better with Jordan than it was as lead dog, so you can't fall back on that as an excuse.

I've said this before, but I guess I need to say it again. I was a fan of Jordan and loved watching his teams play. I watched a ton of Bulls basketball on WGN back in the day. Comparing Pippen to Lebron is silly at best. It's not close and no amount of what ifs and maybe couldas change that fact.

If you want to assign numbers to the two offensively and defensively, I'd say it goes a little something like this:

Offensive (scale of 1 to 100):

Lebron: 97
Pippen: 76

Defensive:

Pippen: 97
Lebron: 85


And I'd weight defense about one third as important as offense in the NBA. To think otherwise is dishonest at best. Defense is not "half the game" in the NBA. The offense always has the advantage.

[vcsgrizzfan]

..rob, lol....this isn't about whether someone believes or not that Pip is as good as Bron offensively...it's about a gap between them from both perspectives, offense/defense...and again, using numbers when Pip was the lead after having been a sidekick for 7 years, is just down right amusing...

..different roles/schemes, MUCH different eras means we speculate, unless you can come up with some evidence to show Pip's numbers in a lead role from day 1 or factor in the contrast in eras...

OK, I'm probably getting trolled, but I'm bored at work so I'll play along.

TDK earlier said that defense was "half of the game". This couldn't be farther from the truth. Offenses score at will in the NBA. Even all-time great defenses gave up 90+ points per game. It's an offensive sport catered to offensive players. That being said, Pippen's defense is certainly better than Lebron's, I wouldn't dare to speak otherwise. But would you say that Pippen is one of the 5 best defensive players of all-time? (maybe you would, but let's put that aside for now)

Lebron IS one of the best offensive players in history. His scoring numbers prove it. His shooting numbers (in general) prove it. His assist numbers prove it. Between points AND assists it's arguable to say that Lebron is possibly the most valuable offensive player the game has ever seen. (NOTE: I did not say greatest scorer, please take notice of that). Outside of Big O in the inflated 60's, not a soul in NBA history can hold a candle to the all-around statistics that Lebron has garnered over his career. Not Jordan, not Kobe, not Magic. Bird comes close, but even he wasn't able to score as well as Lebron has so far....not particularly close either (other than 2 seasons).

I gave the example of Pippen and Lebron as lead dogs, at the same age, with near identical shots taken and minutes played. The comparison isn't close. And Pippen's efficiency wasn't any better with Jordan than it was as lead dog, so you can't fall back on that as an excuse.

I've said this before, but I guess I need to say it again. I was a fan of Jordan and loved watching his teams play. I watched a ton of Bulls basketball on WGN back in the day. Comparing Pippen to Lebron is silly at best. It's not close and no amount of what ifs and maybe couldas change that fact.

If you want to assign numbers to the two offensively and defensively, I'd say it goes a little something like this:

Offensive (scale of 1 to 100):

Lebron: 97
Pippen: 76

Defensive:

Pippen: 97
Lebron: 85


And I'd weight defense about one third as important as offense in the NBA. To think otherwise is dishonest at best. Defense is not "half the game" in the NBA. The offense always has the advantage.

Not a bad summary my good man.

[jordanzone]

..grizz, I think at this point everyone gets that you would blow Bush at the drop of his pants...enough already...YES, he's a smart guy, but that doesn't always make him right...

His arguments hold water and are based on facts. Yours are based on nothing. I don't need Bush4Ever to tell me what is obvious to anyone with a reasonable basketball IQ.

Your only role on this board is to blow dwcmwa and thedangerouskitchen and bitch about moderation. Maybe you should try thinking without bias instead of accusing others of being influenced by bias. Your lack of self awareness isn't as bad as TDK's, but it's not hugely behind.

..so how far would this gap be?...

..as for the rest, blah blah blah...I don't give two shits what you think on a personal level...keep thanking Bush, keep giving your two cents, and all will be fine, mkay?...

[Bush4Ever]

..on the surface, yes we do....how far the gap is when digging further to find this gap, we don't...hello?

"I know this 7 foot NBA center is taller than this 5'9'' dude"
"Really?"
"Yeah, at least on the surface"
"So, how much taller?"
"Well, IDK hard to say...maybe 3-4 inches"
"Wait, I'm using this inch ruler...it says 15 inches."
"Eh, I don't think the tick marks on that ruler were confirmed perfectly accurate by NASA...it could be 15, but it could also be 3-4 inches. You can never have perfect measurement"
"Well, I got this measuring tape...looks like it's one full foot and about three of those inch tick marks"
"Eh, well...there is going to be a certain bias because you like tall dudes...you probably didn't hold the ends perfectly to the floor and head when you measured...so it could be 1.25 feet...or it could be 0.25 feet...you have to account for bias "
"Hey, I just pulled every single doctor record from both of these guys. Almost all of them mark the center at 84 inches and the other dude at 69 inches."
"Wait...you said almost all."
"Yes, one doctor marked the center at 74 inches...but it definitely looks like it was just keyed in wrong, since the 7 is right next to the 8."
"Well, we have a number of different opinions in play then...could be 74, or it could be 84 inches."
"......."
"......."
" *trollface* "

[vcsgrizzfan]

..on the surface, yes we do....how far the gap is when digging further to find this gap, we don't...hello?

"I know this 7 foot NBA center is taller than this 5'9'' dude"
"Really?"
"Yeah, at least on the surface"
"So, how much taller?"
"Well, IDK hard to say...maybe 3-4 inches"
"Wait, I'm using this inch ruler...it says 15 inches."
"Eh, I don't think the tick marks on that ruler were confirmed perfectly accurate by NASA...it could be 15, but it could also be 3-4 inches. You can never have perfect measurement"
"Well, I got this measuring tape...looks like it's one full foot and about three of those inch tick marks"
"Eh, well...there is going to be a certain bias because you like tall dudes...you probably didn't hold the ends perfectly to the floor and head when you measured...so it could be 1.25 feet...or it could be 0.25 feet...you have to account for bias "
"Hey, I just pulled every single doctor record from both of these guys. Almost all of them mark the center at 84 inches and the other dude at 69 inches."
"Wait...you said almost all."
"Yes, one doctor marked the center at 74 inches...but it definitely looks like it was just keyed in wrong, since the 7 is right next to the 8."
"Well, we have a number of different opinions in play then...could be 74, or it could be 84 inches."
"......."
"......."
" *trollface* "

I chuckled and had to thank for the post. Just for jordanzone.

[lettherebehouse]

Yikes. JZ, I applaud your effort for finally tackling a discussion head on instead of your usual act, but you walked yourself into a buzzsaw here. And I'm sorry for being graphic but, like, you're limping away right now with a completely shredded butthole.

[jordanzone]

lol, ...have a good day fellas....

[Y2K]

Pippen got schooled by a 21 year old Kobe in the playoffs lol


:LG2:

Bad back Pippen. Abused a shell of the player he once was. Impressive.

LOL

Didn't take long until some Bulls slurper came up with a faggot ass excuse to explain Pippen's embarrassment of a series. He played every regular season game that season, and at 34, he was the same age Kobe was when Kobe was 1st team All NBA dropping 27/6/6. Save the excuses, I thought Pippen came from "the tough I play through separated shoulders era". If Pippen was as great as you drunks claim he is, then even a 75% version of Pippen should've been able to dominate a pampered cream puff pimple faced new school chump who just turned old enough to buy a beer on the game's 2nd biggest stage.

But nope, ski-slope-nose couldn't rise to the occasion, and was absolutely embarrassed out of the gym by Kobe 21 yr old Bryant lol.

Kobe put up 20/5/5 on 44% FG. That ain't exactly lighting up the world.

[Robceltsfan]

Bad back Pippen. Abused a shell of the player he once was. Impressive.

LOL

Didn't take long until some Bulls slurper came up with a faggot ass excuse to explain Pippen's embarrassment of a series. He played every regular season game that season, and at 34, he was the same age Kobe was when Kobe was 1st team All NBA dropping 27/6/6. Save the excuses, I thought Pippen came from "the tough I play through separated shoulders era". If Pippen was as great as you drunks claim he is, then even a 75% version of Pippen should've been able to dominate a pampered cream puff pimple faced new school chump who just turned old enough to buy a beer on the game's 2nd biggest stage.

But nope, ski-slope-nose couldn't rise to the occasion, and was absolutely embarrassed out of the gym by Kobe 21 yr old Bryant lol.

Kobe put up 20/5/5 on 44% FG. That ain't exactly lighting up the world.

20/5/6*....44%....52% from 3!!! Kobe also averaged 1.6 steals and 2.1 blocks.