Christians vs Atheists

[LACANO]

All Christians should try living as an atheist for one day. Don't pray. Don't thank Jesus for anything. Take the lord's name in vain, don't go to church, read a graphic comic book instead of the bible, etc...

I'll even trade you by living as a Christian for a day. I'll call up my brother and ask what I should do. I got a bible on my shelf too... I'll pick out a passage and live by that for a day or whatever.

If you don't like it, or feel "sinful" for living as an atheist for a day remember that you can always ask for forgiveness afterwards.

[Kingcarl24]

All Christians should try living as an atheist for one day. Don't pray. Don't thank Jesus for anything. Take the lord's name in vain, don't go to church, read a graphic comic book instead of the bible, etc...

I'll even trade you by living as a Christian for a day. I'll call up my brother and ask what I should do. I got a bible on my shelf too... I'll pick out a passage and live by that for a day or whatever.

If you don't like it, or feel "sinful" for living as an atheist as a day remember that you can always ask for forgiveness afterwards.

I think a lot of christians have. I personally know many that have done so. Some have done it for years and then eventually ended up coming back. Why do you act like that's something new?

[Johnnyblazzed]

You seem like a smart guy.

I think we can both agree that we'll not change the other's mind. Sam Harris is amazing and I doubt any of his detractors can hold a candle to his rhetoric. I've watched many of his debates and I always feel like Harris is the LeBron to his 7th grade theological opponents.

I prefer Shermer and Krauss (even though Krauss has been exposed for omitting information did not support his agenda, I still find him entertaining and quite smart). My all time favorite is Hitchins.

Seriously check out the Veritas Forums. They bring in prominent atheists and agnostics to join the dicussions.

Where has Krauss been exposed?
I tend to agree that while Harris is brilliant, he is about as dry as the Sahara.

We discussed this before. It was a debate with Craig and he omitted language in a document from Velinkin.

[youtube]AkvckQG71oc[/youtube]

[youtube]IbOh6aJrIYI[/youtube]

[LACANO]

All Christians should try living as an atheist for one day. Don't pray. Don't thank Jesus for anything. Take the lord's name in vain, don't go to church, read a graphic comic book instead of the bible, etc...

I'll even trade you by living as a Christian for a day. I'll call up my brother and ask what I should do. I got a bible on my shelf too... I'll pick out a passage and live by that for a day or whatever.

If you don't like it, or feel "sinful" for living as an atheist as a day remember that you can always ask for forgiveness afterwards.

I think a lot of christians have. I personally know many that have done so. Some have done it for years and then eventually ended up coming back. Why do you act like that's something new?

It comes back to the moral argument.

Were/are they morally inferior as atheists and morally superior as Christians?

[Johnnyblazzed]

I figured you were half clowning, so no need to get butthurt Bush. Too many atheists don't get the moral argument and see it as exactly as you responded. The argument is bloody lost on them.

the "moral argument" is a fallacy

[youtube]GcJxRqTs5nk[/youtube]

Watching the video now, I just don't understand how animals having a sense of morality makes the moral argument a fallacy.

As for the Pen quote, his quote makes it clear he doesn't understand the moral argument either.

[LACANO]

Aye yo Johhnnyblazzed... what if you were born into Saudi royalty?

Do you think you'd see the one true way and be a christian as god intended you to be? Or, do you think you'd worship Allah like the good Muslim your royal parents raised you to be?

[Shill Jackson]

I figured you were half clowning, so no need to get butthurt Bush. Too many atheists don't get the moral argument and see it as exactly as you responded. The argument is bloody lost on them.

the "moral argument" is a fallacy

[youtube]GcJxRqTs5nk[/youtube]

Watching the video now, I just don't understand how animals having a sense of morality makes the moral argument a fallacy.

As for the Pen quote, his quote makes it clear he doesn't understand the moral argument either.

The moral argument that you are speaking of is that human morality is derived from religious belief. Correct?
Animals displaying morality shows that it is not a unique human condition, but a trait shared by many of us animals.
Pen's quote is spot on.

[Johnnyblazzed]

the "moral argument" is a fallacy

[youtube]GcJxRqTs5nk[/youtube]

Watching the video now, I just don't understand how animals having a sense of morality makes the moral argument a fallacy.

As for the Pen quote, his quote makes it clear he doesn't understand the moral argument either.

The moral argument that you are speaking of is that human morality is derived from religious belief. Correct?
Animals displaying morality shows that it is not a unique human condition, but a trait shared by many of us animals.
Pen's quote is spot on.

No, it appears you don't quite understand it either.

[LACANO]

All Christians should try living as an atheist for one day. Don't pray. Don't thank Jesus for anything. Take the lord's name in vain, don't go to church, read a graphic comic book instead of the bible, etc...

I'll even trade you by living as a Christian for a day. I'll call up my brother and ask what I should do. I got a bible on my shelf too... I'll pick out a passage and live by that for a day or whatever.

If you don't like it, or feel "sinful" for living as an atheist as a day remember that you can always ask for forgiveness afterwards.

I think a lot of christians have. I personally know many that have done so. Some have done it for years and then eventually ended up coming back. Why do you act like that's something new?

It comes back to the moral argument.

Were/are they morally inferior as atheists and morally superior as Christians?

This question remains unaddressed.

[Kingcarl24]

I think a lot of christians have. I personally know many that have done so. Some have done it for years and then eventually ended up coming back. Why do you act like that's something new?

It comes back to the moral argument.

Were/are they morally inferior as atheists and morally superior as Christians?

This question remains unaddressed.

I'm not sure what you're asking.

No. You're not morally inferior as an atheist. Blazzed can answer much better than I can.

I didn't answer because I wasn't sure why it was addressed to my comment.

[Johnnyblazzed]

Aye yo Johhnnyblazzed... what if you were born into Saudi royalty?

Do you think you'd see the one true way and be a christian as god intended you to be? Or, do you think you'd worship Allah like the good Muslim your royal parents raised you to be?

I'd be wealthy, and most likely a practicing Muslim. In relation to the validity of Christianity or existence of a Creator, the question is a kind of genetic fallacy.

http://www.reasonsforgod.org/2011/11/if ... christian/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Johnnyblazzed]

It comes back to the moral argument.

Were/are they morally inferior as atheists and morally superior as Christians?

This question remains unaddressed.

I'm not sure what you're asking.

No. You're not morally inferior as an atheist. Blazzed can answer much better than I can.

I didn't answer because I wasn't sure why it was addressed to my comment.

He's asking are those who have left "God" more or less moral than when they were Christians.

[Master Spade]

Those who follow the example of Jesus and strive to live as he lived are Christians. Words mean something, and I choose them carefully. Such as "heinous", "strive", and so on. I shouldn't need to qualify those words. The only words that need to be qualified in this conversation is "I believe Jesus is the Son of God", or "Jesus is my Savior." How do I know those who make such claims are being genuine and honest; that they truly mean it... by their actions, by their behavior.

Again, being a Christian is more than a statement, it is a way of life. If you told me your daughter is the joy of your life and you loved her, and your actions were contrary to your words, I would know your daughter is not the joy of your life and you do not truly love her.

I guess you are not a Christian then, since you haven't given up all of your earthly possessions to the poor in order to follow Jesus more closely. Also, I can tell by your politics that you do not support the idea of turning the other cheek.

I guess only mother-earth hippy pacifists are Christian.

Or is it abortion clinic bombers who are the true Christians?

Or is it the ones who create families from incest or polygamy who are true Christians? (Also supported by your god in the bible).

I guess it depends on which denomination and interpretation you follow...

Of course, I'm being sarcastic, but I hope you're not too dim to get the point. And I hope you apply the same standard to people of other religions. For example, when a Muslim bombs a building I hope you say, "Well, he's not a true Muslim, because Islam is a religion of peace" (as 99.99% of Muslims say). I am judging here, but, somehow, I doubt that's what you say in such scenario.

Jesus pretty well summed up who Christians are: Matthew 15:8, give it a peak.

If you have issues with what it means to be a Christian, take it up with Jesus.

Again, you fail to address anything the poster said. You have a habit of this. You basically just say "I am right, and you are wrong". That answers nothing.

So. YOU tell us:

1. what it is to be a "True Christian".
2. Which one of the thousands of different denominations is the correct one?
3. about the "Moral Argument", since you say the rest of us know nothing about it. Educate us.

Also as someone brought up, do you acknowledge that if you were born into basically ANY other religion with a different god, you'd be telling all of us how Your specific god is the True One and the Only one. You'd tell everyone that jesus, allah, and all others are not real. You would KNOW that you were right, and the rest of us were wrong.

[LACANO]

Aye yo Johhnnyblazzed... what if you were born into Saudi royalty?

Do you think you'd see the one true way and be a christian as god intended you to be? Or, do you think you'd worship Allah like the good Muslim your royal parents raised you to be?

I'd be wealthy, and most likely a practicing Muslim. In relation to the validity of Christianity or existence of a Creator, the question is a kind of genetic fallacy.

http://www.reasonsforgod.org/2011/11/if ... christian/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The general principle is that if the “born elsewhere” argument works to destabilize Christianity, it works equally well to destabilize any other position, including itself, since we all could have been born somewhere else.

I think this sentence is a good TL:DR for that link. I fully recognize I'd have a full blown erection for Muhammad if I was born into a wealthy Arab family too. This doesn't address the fact though that each religion claims to be the one true word of god. So who's correct? Who should I worship to ensure that I get into heaven? Allah or god? Or maybe Krishna, or the sun god Ra... how about the old pagan gods? Who has the most righteous path that ensures me eternal happiness once I die?

I don't want to go to one of the millions of possible hells! I want to live forever in bliss and happiness once I pass this temporal world.

If your bible says Jesus is the one true word of god and if the quran says Muhammad is the one true word of Allah then I must follow one or the other. Only one can be right. Only one religion can grant me true happiness. Only one has the proper moral code for which I need to live my time on earth.

So which one should I follow? How do you personally know that the bible is right and the quran is wrong?

[Ghostown42]

Aye yo Johhnnyblazzed... what if you were born into Saudi royalty?

Do you think you'd see the one true way and be a christian as god intended you to be? Or, do you think you'd worship Allah like the good Muslim your royal parents raised you to be?

I'd be wealthy, and most likely a practicing Muslim. In relation to the validity of Christianity or existence of a Creator, the question is a kind of genetic fallacy.

http://www.reasonsforgod.org/2011/11/if ... christian/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The general principle is that if the “born elsewhere” argument works to destabilize Christianity, it works equally well to destabilize any other position, including itself, since we all could have been born somewhere else.

I think this sentence is a good TL:DR for that link. I fully recognize I'd have a full blown erection for Muhammad if I was born into a wealthy Arab family too. This doesn't address the fact though that each religion claims to be the one true word of god. So who's correct? Who should I worship to ensure that I get into heaven? Allah or god? Or maybe Krishna, or the sun god Ra... how about the old pagan gods? Who has the most righteous path that ensures me eternal happiness once I die?

I don't want to go to one of the millions of possible hells! I want to live forever in bliss and happiness once I pass this temporal world.

If your bible says Jesus is the one true word of god and if the quran says Muhammad is the one true word of Allah then I must follow one or the other. Only one can be right. Only one religion can grant me true happiness. Only one has the proper moral code for which I need to live my time on earth.

So which one should I follow? How do you personally know that the bible is right and the quran is wrong?

Not all of them can be right. Only one can be right, but all of them could be wrong...

[Ghostown42]

I'd be wealthy, and most likely a practicing Muslim. In relation to the validity of Christianity or existence of a Creator, the question is a kind of genetic fallacy.

http://www.reasonsforgod.org/2011/11/if ... christian/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The general principle is that if the “born elsewhere” argument works to destabilize Christianity, it works equally well to destabilize any other position, including itself, since we all could have been born somewhere else.

I think this sentence is a good TL:DR for that link. I fully recognize I'd have a full blown erection for Muhammad if I was born into a wealthy Arab family too. This doesn't address the fact though that each religion claims to be the one true word of god. So who's correct? Who should I worship to ensure that I get into heaven? Allah or god? Or maybe Krishna, or the sun god Ra... how about the old pagan gods? Who has the most righteous path that ensures me eternal happiness once I die?

I don't want to go to one of the millions of possible hells! I want to live forever in bliss and happiness once I pass this temporal world.

If your bible says Jesus is the one true word of god and if the quran says Muhammad is the one true word of Allah then I must follow one or the other. Only one can be right. Only one religion can grant me true happiness. Only one has the proper moral code for which I need to live my time on earth.

So which one should I follow? How do you personally know that the bible is right and the quran is wrong?

because his mama and dadda told him so

He'll give an elaborate explanation that's really just a huge argument from ignorance, as I've asked him the same question before, and then when I demonstrated to him that he was giving an argument from ignorance he went back to the "I'm right, you're wrong, you just don't understand," thing. That's his #1 argument, "you just don't understand, I do."