2014 Anger General Geatest of All Time: #27 selection

[Bush4Ever]

"Skills + Rings" was a common two-word reply on ESPN from Kobe Kids to Kobe haters who were trying to downplay Kobe's all-time standing, in around 2009-2011.

I could be wrong but I think Griff popularized it, or perhaps Madness.

I know, I know...

[kobeunderbite]

Do you? Based on your last reply, it doesn't seem that way.

[Bush4Ever]

Do you? Based on your last reply, it doesn't seem that way.

Yep.

[kobeunderbite]

I'm a little embarrassed for you.

[Bush4Ever]

I'm a little embarrassed for you.

Your sexual orientation is homosexual.

[PhutureDynasty]

Barry.

[kobeunderbite]

I'm a little embarrassed for you.

Your sexual orientation is homosexual.

Can we coordinate on avatars for a bit?

Maybe I do a charmeleon and you do charizard?

[Bush4Ever]

I will rock Gyrados. You can do Charizard.

Both beast Pokemon who are technically not dragon-type, but sort of are.

I had gyrados on my team for a long, long time and appreciated him very much.

[elmouse03]

I will rock Gyrados. You can do Charizard.

Both beast Pokemon who are technically not dragon-type, but sort of are.

I had gyrados on my team for a long, long time and appreciated him very much.

Ill take Rhydon

[FPL]

Ewing

[vcsgrizzfan]

Ewing

You really like bigs. I don't recall you voting for anyone other than a big although you probably have and I just didn't notice.

[FPL]

Ewing

You really like bigs. I don't recall you voting for anyone other than a big although you probably have and I just didn't notice.

I think I might've gone with Wade just to vote against Isiah a few threads ago.

[Havlicekstealsit]

We were having heated debates about Isiah getting into the prior three spots and now here he is getting owned by Barry.

[AbeVigodaLive]

We were having heated debates about Isiah getting into the prior three spots and now here he is getting owned by Barry.

True. Barry kind of got the same treatment. He almost made it, then was largely forgotten for a spell.

[Y2K]

I'm voting Ewing. He Doesn't have the ring but he was a very good two way player for over a decade.

[Odogg]

why?

21/13 for his career. Even better stats in the playoffs. Blocks too.

Lead dog ring in 78. Great playoffs. Great battles with Kareem in college, which you watched live.

What's funny is that if we just go by stats we see that Elvin Hayes played better in the playoffs. More points. More rebounds.

But if you go by anecdotal accounts... he was known as a "guaranteed loser"... a phrase written in Sports Illustrated about him. Sure, he won a title. But look closer...

Yes. Hayes won a title. To some, they'll move him ahead of guys without rings just because of that ring. But, look closer. Hayes scored 145 points in those Finals. He scored only 19 of those (13%) in the 4th quarters. And that was allegedly not an anomaly. But they won the title... look closer. Hayes fouled out with 10 minutes to go (only 12 points) in the 7th game. His team won him that title while he was out... on the road. What makes it more interesting is that the newspapers ran a huge story that morning about Hayes' history of "choking" in big games, most noteworthy the 1975 upset Finals loss to Golden State. As predicted, he played poorly... but his team bailed him out.

Here's an excerpt from an article after they won: "Even the winning of the championship after nine futile seasons failed to erase Hayes’ reputation as a choker. The collapse of the Philadelphia 76ers, and injuries to Bill Walton and other Portland Trail Blazers, tainted the Bullets’ win over the Seattle SuperSonics. Because Hayes fouled out of two of the final seven games—including the seventh—some fans felt that the Bullets won despite Hayes rather than because of him.”

Plus, Hayes was one of those cats who posted HUGE numbers right away in his career playing in the fractured ABA/NBA days with half the best players in the other league. (28/17) He did it while shooting a lousy percentage for below .500 teams. When he stopped shooting so much, his teams started winning.

Consider that in his prime... after his 4th year in the league... he was traded for a guy named Jack Marin. Straight up...

Hayes was hated by more than the media. There's a laundry list of folks (coaches and players) who point to Hayes' selfishness on the court as being damaging to the team.

In my opinion... we're at least 10 spots away from Elvin Hayes.

Everybody has their haters. The facts state otherwise.

Hayes joined the NBA with the San Diego Rockets in 1968 and in his rookie year, he scored a career-high 54 points against the Detroit Pistons on November 11 of that year. As a rookie, Hayes led the NBA in scoring with 28.4 points per game, averaged 17.1 rebounds per game, and was named to the NBA All-Rookie Team. Hayes' scoring average is the fifth best all-time for a rookie, and he remains the last rookie to lead the NBA in scoring average.

In Hayes' second season, he led the NBA in rebounding, becoming the first player other than Bill Russell or Wilt Chamberlain to lead the category since 1957 (Chamberlain was injured during much of the season). In Hayes' third season, 1970–71, he scored a career best 28.7 points per game. In 1971, the Rockets moved to Houston, enabling Hayes to play in the city of his college triumphs. In 1972, Hayes was traded to the Baltimore Bullets, where he teamed with Hall-Of-Famer Wes Unseld to form a fierce and dominating frontcourt combination. The 18.1 rebounds per game Hayes averaged in 1974 is the third highest rebounding average of any NBA player since Wilt Chamberlain retired in 1973.

Hayes and Unseld later led the Washington Bullets to 3 NBA Finals (1975, 1978, and 1979), and an NBA title over The Seattle SuperSonics in 1978. He shined brightly, especially in the NBA playoffs. During the Bullets' championship season (1978), he averaged 21.8 points and 12.1 rebounds per game in 21 playoff games. One year later, he set an NBA Finals record for most offensive rebounds in a game (11), in a May 27, 1979 game against the SuperSonics. The Chicago Bulls' Dennis Rodman would tie this record twice, both games coming in the 1996 NBA Finals, also against the SuperSonics.

On June 8, 1981, Hayes was traded to the Houston Rockets. The "Big E" closed out his career with the Rockets in 1984. Hayes had a career scoring average of 21.0 points and 12.5 rebounds per game. He played at least 80 games in every season. He ranks fourth in NBA history in total rebounds, behind Chamberlain, Russell and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

[Bush4Ever]

What exactly is that meant to refute?

I don't know much about Hayes or that general time period of NBA history, so I am asking more than arguing.

I don't really see how what you posted really address the specific claims Abe noted in his post. Not for the most part, anyway.

[Odogg]

Well, I guess I'm saying facts are more important than the opinion of 1-2 SI writers.

[Odogg]

Also the #9 guy on this list was notorious for doing most of his scoring in the 1st 3 quarters. So obviously that is not a deal breaker.

[Odogg]

Interesting how Rick Barry played in that same apparently "stat-loaded" era, yet put up just avg stats, other than 3 or 4 great scoring seasons.