2014 Anger General Greatest of All Time #19

[Titan18]

Isiah.

Beat Jordan, Bird, and Magic in the playoffs. Was a god damn assassin when it mattered most. Came storming in in the 80s to interrupt the magic/bird lovefest. Didn't have the overall accolades others however, which hurts his stance.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Well my selection for Scottie, he did it all. One of if not the Most Complete Players in NBA History.

Did he play 2nd fiddle for most of his career? Yes. But he played with the GOAT. 6 rings, All-Defense, All-Star, Dream Teamer, MVP season in 1994, etc.

Excellent point... critics always use the "second-fiddle" tag against Pippen, to hold him down in these sort of debates; however they fail to realize that there's maaaaaaybe only 1 or 2 players throughout NBA history who wouldn't have played second-fiddle to Jordan.

Bottom line Scottie PROVED he was a legit MVP caliber player who could lead his team deep into the playoffs, withOut Jordan. So as far as I'm concerned that "second fiddle" label is nonsense.

[thedangerouskitchen]

BTW... my vote is for Pippen.

[Y2K]

Well my selection for Scottie, he did it all. One of if not the Most Complete Players in NBA History.

Did he play 2nd fiddle for most of his career? Yes. But he played with the GOAT. 6 rings, All-Defense, All-Star, Dream Teamer, MVP season in 1994, etc.

Excellent point... critics always use the "second-fiddle" tag against Pippen, to hold him down in these sort of debates; however they fail to realize that there's maaaaaaybe only 1 or 2 players throughout NBA history who wouldn't have played second-fiddle to Jordan.

Bottom line Scottie PROVED he was a legit MVP caliber player who could lead his team deep into the playoffs, withOut Jordan. So as far as I'm concerned that "second fiddle" label is nonsense.

The same way that it is nonsense for Kobe.

[Master Spade]

Well my selection for Scottie, he did it all. One of if not the Most Complete Players in NBA History.

Did he play 2nd fiddle for most of his career? Yes. But he played with the GOAT. 6 rings, All-Defense, All-Star, Dream Teamer, MVP season in 1994, etc.

I just can't see not choosing Scottie here, though Baylor gives Pip a run for his money.

Great points!

The next two picks to round out the Top 20 HAVE to be Baylor and Pippen. But.......who do I vote for here!???

..........it's tough!! Thinking about it.........Like you said, most would be second fiddle for Jordan......so..........Baylor on those teams, and he too is #2..................so........


I vote: Scottie Pippen


His all around game, including being one of the GOAT Defensive players gave him the edge.

[wailuaFC]

It would seem like Im the minority here, but the biggest problem that I have with this list is Moses being so high. Can someone give me a good argument (negating team rings) why moses should be 5 spots ahead of karl? I mean, what about him deserves to be over west, petit, or mikan let lone karl?

[Robceltsfan]

It would seem like Im the minority here, but the biggest problem that I have with this list is Moses being so high. Can someone give me a good argument (negating team rings) why moses should be 5 spots ahead of karl? I mean, what about him deserves to be over west, petit, or mikan let lone karl?

He won 3 MVPs and a Finals MVP. Those are decent reasons, no?


By the way, I'm voting for KEVIN GARNETT this round.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Elgin Baylor.

27.4 ppg
13.5 reb
4.3 ast

He played 12 seasons, excluding the 11 games he played on half a leg over two seasons at the very end.
He made 1st team All NBA 10 of those seasons.

Baylor is a sneaky "what if" guy.

- He played with serious knee issues starting in his 5th season. He went from a 34+ ppg guy to a 25+ ppg guy.
- He was a member of the military during an NBA season... only allowed to leave on weekends to play. No practices. He averaged 38/19/5 that season.
- He played vs. Russell. And with Wilt during some of Wilt's most famous choke jobs.

It's true... Baylor never won a title. Obviously, he was the reason... or was he? In Game 5 of the 1962 playoffs... he went off for 61 points and 22 rebounds vs. the greatest defender of all time (Russell) and the Celtics. In Game 7 of the series... the Celtics won in OT. Baylor's fault? Baylor had 41. In fact, he averaged 41 ppg / 18 reb in that series.

In fact, he shot a higher percentage from the field in the playoffs than in the regular season. How many other guys on this list can make that claim?

We've talked about how razor thin it is between victory and defeat... Baylor knows that all too well. I've never seen a list with Baylor outside the Top 20. I would hate to be part of such a list now. I just don't think it makes sense.

[Havlicekstealsit]

It would seem like Im the minority here, but the biggest problem that I have with this list is Moses being so high. Can someone give me a good argument (negating team rings) why moses should be 5 spots ahead of karl? I mean, what about him deserves to be over west, petit, or mikan let lone karl?

More MVPs than Karl. More Finals MVPs than Karl. Moses was also something like 7-1 head to head vs. Kareem in the playoffs. Karl didn't fare such luck against his top competition.

[Bush4Ever]

This is very hard.

I will go with Garnett.

Will explain later if i can

[wailuaFC]

It would seem like Im the minority here, but the biggest problem that I have with this list is Moses being so high. Can someone give me a good argument (negating team rings) why moses should be 5 spots ahead of karl? I mean, what about him deserves to be over west, petit, or mikan let lone karl?

He won 3 MVPs and a Finals MVP. Those are decent reasons, no?


By the way, I'm voting for KEVIN GARNETT this round.

I guess he won 3 Mvps but Karl did have to beat out Jordan for his, and posted much greater stats both per season and volume for his career

[AbeVigodaLive]

It would seem like Im the minority here, but the biggest problem that I have with this list is Moses being so high. Can someone give me a good argument (negating team rings) why moses should be 5 spots ahead of karl? I mean, what about him deserves to be over west, petit, or mikan let lone karl?

He won 3 MVPs and a Finals MVP. Those are decent reasons, no?


By the way, I'm voting for KEVIN GARNETT this round.

I guess he won 3 Mvps but Karl did have to beat out Jordan for his, and posted much greater stats both per season and volume for his career

To be fair, Moses beat out Larry Bird, Magic Johnson and Kareem for his. And all three are in the top 6 of these rankings.

[Robceltsfan]

It would seem like Im the minority here, but the biggest problem that I have with this list is Moses being so high. Can someone give me a good argument (negating team rings) why moses should be 5 spots ahead of karl? I mean, what about him deserves to be over west, petit, or mikan let lone karl?

He won 3 MVPs and a Finals MVP. Those are decent reasons, no?


By the way, I'm voting for KEVIN GARNETT this round.

I guess he won 3 Mvps but Karl did have to beat out Jordan for his, and posted much greater stats both per season and volume for his career

Moses had to go up against Kareem for his MVPs, so there's that.

Personally, I started voting for the Mailman at #15, so I don't think there should be THAT huge of a gap between them, but I do rate Moses above Karl.

[Deez]

I think David Robinson could be argued in this spot. Not sure on my vote yet though

[thedangerouskitchen]

Well my selection for Scottie, he did it all. One of if not the Most Complete Players in NBA History.

Did he play 2nd fiddle for most of his career? Yes. But he played with the GOAT. 6 rings, All-Defense, All-Star, Dream Teamer, MVP season in 1994, etc.

Excellent point... critics always use the "second-fiddle" tag against Pippen, to hold him down in these sort of debates; however they fail to realize that there's maaaaaaybe only 1 or 2 players throughout NBA history who wouldn't have played second-fiddle to Jordan.

Bottom line Scottie PROVED he was a legit MVP caliber player who could lead his team deep into the playoffs, withOut Jordan. So as far as I'm concerned that "second fiddle" label is nonsense.

The same way that it is nonsense for Kobe.

Nobody seems to hold the second-fiddle label over Kobe's head though... but they do for Pippen.

[Havlicekstealsit]

Excellent point... critics always use the "second-fiddle" tag against Pippen, to hold him down in these sort of debates; however they fail to realize that there's maaaaaaybe only 1 or 2 players throughout NBA history who wouldn't have played second-fiddle to Jordan.

Bottom line Scottie PROVED he was a legit MVP caliber player who could lead his team deep into the playoffs, withOut Jordan. So as far as I'm concerned that "second fiddle" label is nonsense.

The same way that it is nonsense for Kobe.

Nobody seems to hold the second-fiddle label over Kobe's head though... but they do for Pippen.

Because Kobe shed that label by winning titles without Shaq. Like the other way around, Pippen didn't win shit running a team without MJ. The 55 wins sure were pretty, but they got sent home.

[Y2K]

Excellent point... critics always use the "second-fiddle" tag against Pippen, to hold him down in these sort of debates; however they fail to realize that there's maaaaaaybe only 1 or 2 players throughout NBA history who wouldn't have played second-fiddle to Jordan.

Bottom line Scottie PROVED he was a legit MVP caliber player who could lead his team deep into the playoffs, withOut Jordan. So as far as I'm concerned that "second fiddle" label is nonsense.

The same way that it is nonsense for Kobe.

Nobody seems to hold the second-fiddle label over Kobe's head though... but they do for Pippen.

Pip have 1 excellent season and one solid one as a lead dog. That's not nearly enough of a sample size to shake off a second-fiddle label.

I will say this:

Scottie Pippen was a major contributer. He wasn't just a fine player and thus is definitely worthy of a top 20 selection.

[FPL]

KG

No way he should be 12 spots below Timmy (who I have no problem with at #7).

[Havlicekstealsit]

KG

No way he should be 12 spots below Timmy (who I have no problem with at #7).

This sparks another debate too because we keep pushing for KG to get in, but there's been tons of comparisons with him & Dirk --yet Dirk sits with zero votes this round.

[Bush4Ever]

Unfortunately, that's the problem with discrete classifications. There is usual an assumption that the difference between each discrete unit is the same, but that clearly isn't the case here.

Once you get outside probably the top 11 or so, the next 11 or so are very tightly matched against each other, with very little difference between 12 and 20, let alone 16 and 17.