2014 Anger General Geatest of All Time: #12 selection

[elmouse03]

No way... not with only 1 (second-fiddle) Ring. In fact I have (in no order) West, Pettit, Hondo, Moses and probably a few others ahead of Robertson.

Pettit is really the only true lead dog that won a ring as a lead dog in that bunch.

Moses has a Ring and FMVP... and he was a 3-time regular-season MVP. West has 1 Ring and 1 FMVP, and aside from Jordan he is often regarded as the greatest Playoff/Finals performer ever. Hondo owns 8 rings (2 after Russ retired) and 1 FMVP.

Well Moses had Dr. J who he himself said was the real leader of the 76ers when he arrived there. West had Wilt and Goodrich. Hondo had Cowens and JoJo White. Pettit really didn't have anybody on his 58 title team that challenged him. Hagan lead the playoffs in scoring but Pettit lead the team in the regular season and finals in scoring.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Where we at in this round?

Moses?
West?
Big O?

[LNS]

Where we at in this round?

Moses?
West?
Big O?

Oscar is ahead in this round. I'm thinking people were more impressed with that trip dub season then they're letting on.

[elmouse03]

Where we at in this round?

Moses?
West?
Big O?

Oscar is ahead in this round. I'm thinking people were more impressed with that trip dub season then they're letting on.

Impressive season to say the least. Maybe the most complete player to ever play the game....at least offensively.

First 6 seasons he averaged 30.4ppg 10rpg 10.7apg.

[dwcmwa]

There's still a massive stain on this list with the inclusion of KoMe and LeBronze in the Top 11, but I'll try to ignore that.

Yeah Big O definitely deserves this spot here.

Him, Mikan, West, Moses & Dr. J should fill up the next few spots.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Where we at in this round?

Moses?
West?
Big O?

Oscar is ahead in this round. I'm thinking people were more impressed with that trip dub season then they're letting on.

Impressive season to say the least. Maybe the most complete player to ever play the game....at least offensively.

First 6 seasons he averaged 30.4ppg 10rpg 10.7apg.

The 1962 season is one of the most amazing statistical seasons of any sport.

Wilt averaged 50+ ppg
Oscar averaged a triple double
Baylor averaged 38 / 19 / 5
And Bob Petit had his best statistical season

Teams averaged 119 points. On less than 43% shooting.
Personally, while impressed by the stats for each man, I think there's a bit of inflation/noise in those numbers to take them with a grain of salt.


[Note: Even crazier? None of them won MVP. Bill Russell scored a career high in point that season too and won MVP.]

[Bush4Ever]

People,

The pace was insane that year.

You MUST adjust for pace at the very least, if you want to get a sense of how dominant to others in history they were.

a 30/10/10 season means something totally different in 1962 as it does in 2014.

Ditto with 50 point seasons. Didn't Wilt average like 40 shots a game?

[AbeVigodaLive]

People,

The pace was insane that year.

You MUST adjust for pace at the very least, if you want to get a sense of how dominant to others in history they were.

a 30/10/10 season means something totally different in 1962 as it does in 2014.

Ditto with 50 point seasons. Didn't Wilt average like 40 shots a game?

Are you just regurgitating what I just wrote?

Or, simplifying my awkward way of saying the same thing?

[Robceltsfan]

If you do the math to adjust for pace and style of play (i.e. Wilt averaged 48.5 MPG, yes that's more than 48.0), MJ's 37.1 PPG season is every bit as impressive as Wilt's 50.4 PPG season.

Just like nobody considers Cy Young the greatest pitcher of all-time simply because he won 511 games (different style of play in the late 1800's where pitchers threw all 9 innings regularly), nobody can consider Wilt the greatest scorer of all-time. Statistics are relative. Things like pace and play style have to be considered if you're going to simply rely on statistics to parse through an argument.

[elmouse03]

If you do the math to adjust for pace and style of play (i.e. Wilt averaged 48.5 MPG, yes that's more than 48.0), MJ's 37.1 PPG season is every bit as impressive as Wilt's 50.4 PPG season.

Just like nobody considers Cy Young the greatest pitcher of all-time simply because he won 511 games (different style of play in the late 1800's where pitchers threw all 9 innings regularly), nobody can consider Wilt the greatest scorer of all-time. Statistics are relative. Things like pace and play style have to be considered if you're going to simply rely on statistics to parse through an argument.

Well to be fair. Relief pitchers didn't become a big deal in baseball till the 1970s and Cy Young does have an award named after him sooooooooooooo.

Of course in the late 50s to the 60s pretty much every team ran a fast pace but should we knock the players for the era(s) that they ended up playing in? Was it their fault that they were born when they were born and played when they played?

[vcsgrizzfan]

If you do the math to adjust for pace and style of play (i.e. Wilt averaged 48.5 MPG, yes that's more than 48.0), MJ's 37.1 PPG season is every bit as impressive as Wilt's 50.4 PPG season.

Just like nobody considers Cy Young the greatest pitcher of all-time simply because he won 511 games (different style of play in the late 1800's where pitchers threw all 9 innings regularly), nobody can consider Wilt the greatest scorer of all-time. Statistics are relative. Things like pace and play style have to be considered if you're going to simply rely on statistics to parse through an argument.

Well to be fair. Relief pitchers didn't become a big deal in baseball till the 1970s and Cy Young does have an award named after him sooooooooooooo.

Of course in the late 50s to the 60s pretty much every team ran a fast pace but should we knock the players for the era(s) that they ended up playing in? Was it their fault that they were born when they were born and played when they played?

You shouldn't penalize them for the era they played in, but you do need to be cognizant of the factors which make direct comparisons of statistics a bad idea. Stats can and should be analyzed in the context of pace, minutes played, rules at the time etc.

Looking at Oscar's stats without context (or Wilt's, or Russell's) etc makes little sense.

[Robceltsfan]

If you do the math to adjust for pace and style of play (i.e. Wilt averaged 48.5 MPG, yes that's more than 48.0), MJ's 37.1 PPG season is every bit as impressive as Wilt's 50.4 PPG season.

Just like nobody considers Cy Young the greatest pitcher of all-time simply because he won 511 games (different style of play in the late 1800's where pitchers threw all 9 innings regularly), nobody can consider Wilt the greatest scorer of all-time. Statistics are relative. Things like pace and play style have to be considered if you're going to simply rely on statistics to parse through an argument.

Well to be fair. Relief pitchers didn't become a big deal in baseball till the 1970s and Cy Young does have an award named after him sooooooooooooo.

Of course in the late 50s to the 60s pretty much every team ran a fast pace but should we knock the players for the era(s) that they ended up playing in? Was it their fault that they were born when they were born and played when they played?

I'm not saying to "knock" the players, but if you're going to use statistics to compare players, the statistics need to have a point of reference.

If Michael Jordan averaged 48 MPG and took 40 FGA's/game, I'm pretty sure he could average 50 PPG. But teams didn't run and gun in the late 80's like they did in the early 60's, nor did they play their players for entire games.

Per 36 minutes, Wilt averaged 37.4 PPG in 61-62.

Per 36 minutes, Jordan averaged 33.4 PPG in 86-87.

Now take into consideration that the Philly Warriors averaged 111.6 FGAs/game and the Bulls averaged 87.3 FGAs/game, and you've got a 21.7% difference in FGA/game statistically speaking. Add 21.7% to MJ's PPG per 36, and you have the following comparison:

Wilt Per 36 (61-62): 37.4 PPG
MJ Per 36 (86-87 adjusted): 40.4 PPG

So who had the better scoring season?

[Bush4Ever]

If you want a quick and dirty way of comparing across eras, you can find out how many standard deviations above the mean each of the respective players were on points, rebounds, or whatever.

Or find out what the equivalent statistic would be in the other year.

For example, if Wilt was 3.5 SDs above the mean in rebounds in 1962, what number of rebounds per game would correspond to 3.5 SDs above the mean in 2014? Did the 2014 player meet that number?

Quick and dirty, but it will give you a reasonable sense of things most likely. You can also use information from basketball reference to figure it out, on the "NBA Summary" pages of each year.

[vcsgrizzfan]

If you want a quick and dirty way of comparing across eras, you can find out how many standard deviations above the mean each of the respective players were on points, rebounds, or whatever.

Or find out what the equivalent statistic would be in the other year.

For example, if Wilt was 3.5 SDs above the mean in rebounds in 1962, what number of rebounds per game would correspond to 3.5 SDs above the mean in 2014? Did the 2014 player meet that number?

Quick and dirty, but it will give you a reasonable sense of things most likely. You can also use information from basketball reference to figure it out, on the "NBA Summary" pages of each year.

Fucking propeller head.

[Bush4Ever]

Fucking propeller head.

[Y2K]

My selection is Big O. Nomination is Bob Pettit.

[Y2K]

Voting for this round ends at noon CST.

[AbeVigodaLive]

If you do the math to adjust for pace and style of play (i.e. Wilt averaged 48.5 MPG, yes that's more than 48.0), MJ's 37.1 PPG season is every bit as impressive as Wilt's 50.4 PPG season.

Just like nobody considers Cy Young the greatest pitcher of all-time simply because he won 511 games (different style of play in the late 1800's where pitchers threw all 9 innings regularly), nobody can consider Wilt the greatest scorer of all-time. Statistics are relative. Things like pace and play style have to be considered if you're going to simply rely on statistics to parse through an argument.

The 48.5 minutes per game is the craziest stat of all. And the most unbreakable stat in pro sports?

[Robceltsfan]

If you do the math to adjust for pace and style of play (i.e. Wilt averaged 48.5 MPG, yes that's more than 48.0), MJ's 37.1 PPG season is every bit as impressive as Wilt's 50.4 PPG season.

Just like nobody considers Cy Young the greatest pitcher of all-time simply because he won 511 games (different style of play in the late 1800's where pitchers threw all 9 innings regularly), nobody can consider Wilt the greatest scorer of all-time. Statistics are relative. Things like pace and play style have to be considered if you're going to simply rely on statistics to parse through an argument.

The 48.5 minutes per game is the craziest stat of all. And the most unbreakable stat in pro sports?

I think 100 points is the most unbreakable.......but that one probably is too.

[FPL]

If you do the math to adjust for pace and style of play (i.e. Wilt averaged 48.5 MPG, yes that's more than 48.0), MJ's 37.1 PPG season is every bit as impressive as Wilt's 50.4 PPG season.

Just like nobody considers Cy Young the greatest pitcher of all-time simply because he won 511 games (different style of play in the late 1800's where pitchers threw all 9 innings regularly), nobody can consider Wilt the greatest scorer of all-time. Statistics are relative. Things like pace and play style have to be considered if you're going to simply rely on statistics to parse through an argument.

The 48.5 minutes per game is the craziest stat of all. And the most unbreakable stat in pro sports?

I think 100 points is the most unbreakable.......but that one probably is too.

55 rebounds IMO