2014 Anger General Greatest of All Time: #7 selection

[Y2K]

Kobe has 8 votes now by my count.

I'll recount.

[thedangerouskitchen]

If he has 11 rings to go along with his MVP's like Russell does, then of course.

NEXT?

Ahhh... I see.

Well guess what?

Hondo = 8 rings / Kobe = 5 rings

Hondo ---> Kobe



Ouuuuuch...!!

Does that include MVP's too? You seem to bounce from one set of criteria to another. It's not either/or, it's a culmination of things.

Russell has 11 rings. He also has 5 MVP's. And that's just scratching the surface.

Do you grasp yet how this works? You seem to be having a tough time with it.

The issue here is Kobe vs. Hondo, genius... Russell was brought up to trick you into admitting that Ring Count is ultimately why he is considered the GOAT (by many) even without winning FMVP.

So using that same train of thought, Hondo's 8 rings ------> Kobe 5 rings and 1 "regular season" MVP.

Thanks for playing though...

[thedangerouskitchen]

Precisely. That's why the players in the NBA those years voted for Russell as MVP and not Hondo. That's also why they went from champions to chumps when Russell retired.

Again, MVP "votes" does not automatically = better... you sound like a delusional Kobe Kid.

You're speechless... and justifiably so.

Now let's move on from your ridiculous claim, shall we.

[vcsgrizzfan]

Again, MVP "votes" does not automatically = better... you sound like a delusional Kobe Kid.

You're speechless... and justifiably so.

Now let's move on from your ridiculous claim, shall we.

The ridiculous claims are all in your court. I don't see anyone else making really dumb claims except you TDK.

[Y2K]

Kobe has 8 votes now by my count.

Actually 9 because Shill Jackson wanted Kobe for the next selection.

[LNS]

Ahhh... I see.

Well guess what?

Hondo = 8 rings / Kobe = 5 rings

Hondo ---> Kobe



Ouuuuuch...!!

Does that include MVP's too? You seem to bounce from one set of criteria to another. It's not either/or, it's a culmination of things.

Russell has 11 rings. He also has 5 MVP's. And that's just scratching the surface.

Do you grasp yet how this works? You seem to be having a tough time with it.

The issue here is Kobe vs. Hondo, genius... Russell was brought up to trick you into admitting that Ring Count is ultimately why he is considered the GOAT (by many) even without winning FMVP.

So using that same train of thought, Hondo's 8 rings ------> Kobe 5 rings and 1 "regular season" MVP.

Thanks for playing though...

Nope, you still don't grasp how this works, but given your history as a poster I'm not surprised. It's not "just" titles and MVP's, it's the entire body of work.

Kobe
5x Champ
1x MVP
2x FMVP
16x All Star
11x All NBA 1st Team
2x All NBA 2nd Team
2x All NBA 3rd Team
9x All NBA Defensive 1st Team
3x All NBA 2nd Team
2x Scoring Champ
#3 All Time PO Scoring
#4 All Time Regular Season Scoring

Hondo
8x Champ
1x FMVP
13x All Star
4x All NBA 1st Team
7x All NBA 2nd Team
5x All NBA Defensive 1st Team
3x All NBA 2nd Team


Kobe has the superior résumé and it's not that close.

NEXT?

[americaninfidel]

Kobe has 8 votes now by my count.

Actually 9 because Shill Jackson wanted Kobe for the next selection.

Timmy's still nearly doubled him up, and the total number of votes is roughly that of the other polls. Seems like Duncan's clearly won this round.

[thedangerouskitchen]

You're speechless... and justifiably so.

Now let's move on from your ridiculous claim, shall we.

The ridiculous claims are all in your court. I don't see anyone else making really dumb claims except you TDK.

Really... you claim Russell was a "better" player than Hondo in 68 and 69 based on MVP "votes". Using your logic 1979-80 Dan Roundfield was a better player than Moses Malone because he received more MVP votes.

That's kinda ridiculous and dumb, no?

[Y2K]

Kobe has 8 votes now by my count.

Actually 9 because Shill Jackson wanted Kobe for the next selection.

Timmy's still nearly doubled him up, and the total number of votes is roughly that of the other polls. Seems like Duncan's clearly won this round.

You're probably correct. I'm officially closing this round tomorrow, no later than noon CST.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Does that include MVP's too? You seem to bounce from one set of criteria to another. It's not either/or, it's a culmination of things.

Russell has 11 rings. He also has 5 MVP's. And that's just scratching the surface.

Do you grasp yet how this works? You seem to be having a tough time with it.

The issue here is Kobe vs. Hondo, genius... Russell was brought up to trick you into admitting that Ring Count is ultimately why he is considered the GOAT (by many) even without winning FMVP.

So using that same train of thought, Hondo's 8 rings ------> Kobe 5 rings and 1 "regular season" MVP.

Thanks for playing though...

Nope, you still don't grasp how this works, but given your history as a poster I'm not surprised. It's not "just" titles and MVP's, it's the entire body of work.

Kobe
5x Champ
1x MVP
2x FMVP
16x All Star
11x All NBA 1st Team
2x All NBA 2nd Team
2x All NBA 3rd Team
9x All NBA Defensive 1st Team
3x All NBA 2nd Team
2x Scoring Champ
#3 All Time PO Scoring
#4 All Time Regular Season Scoring

Hondo
8x Champ
1x FMVP
13x All Star
4x All NBA 1st Team
7x All NBA 2nd Team
5x All NBA Defensive 1st Team
3x All NBA 2nd Team


Kobe has the superior résumé and it's not that close.

NEXT?

lol at Kobe's 1st Team Defense selections... even his very own coach said those selections were based on popularity, not merit. Plus, Hondo owns several more selections if they picked Defensive teams sooner.

...and sorry but for YEARS we listened to you Kobe Slobbers going on and on about Kobe needing 1 more ring to equal Jordan, yet NOW you want to downplay Rings because Hondo has 3 more than Kobe?!?

That's bush league trolling dude... you should be ashamed.

[LNS]

The issue here is Kobe vs. Hondo, genius... Russell was brought up to trick you into admitting that Ring Count is ultimately why he is considered the GOAT (by many) even without winning FMVP.

So using that same train of thought, Hondo's 8 rings ------> Kobe 5 rings and 1 "regular season" MVP.

Thanks for playing though...

Nope, you still don't grasp how this works, but given your history as a poster I'm not surprised. It's not "just" titles and MVP's, it's the entire body of work.

Kobe
5x Champ
1x MVP
2x FMVP
16x All Star
11x All NBA 1st Team
2x All NBA 2nd Team
2x All NBA 3rd Team
9x All NBA Defensive 1st Team
3x All NBA 2nd Team
2x Scoring Champ
#3 All Time PO Scoring
#4 All Time Regular Season Scoring

Hondo
8x Champ
1x FMVP
13x All Star
4x All NBA 1st Team
7x All NBA 2nd Team
5x All NBA Defensive 1st Team
3x All NBA 2nd Team


Kobe has the superior résumé and it's not that close.

NEXT?

lol at Kobe's 1st Team Defense selections... even his very own coach said those selections were based on popularity, not merit. Plus, Hondo owns several more selections if they picked Defensive teams sooner.

...and sorry but for YEARS we listened to you Kobe Slobbers going on and on about Kobe needing 1 more ring to equal Jordan, yet NOW you ant to change the criteria because Hondo has 3 more rings than Kobe.

That's bush league trolling dude... you should be ashamed.

Your excuses will be noted, but ultimately mean nothing. Again, by your logic, if the FMVP was available for Russell to win, he'd arguably have 6-8, making him the GOAT over Jordan.

It's idiotic to try and quantify what someone "woulda coulda shoulda" won, and much more logically sound to go off of what actually happened.

Kobe >> Hondo

The facts are on my side, the excuses are on your side.

I win.

[vcsgrizzfan]

You're speechless... and justifiably so.

Now let's move on from your ridiculous claim, shall we.

The ridiculous claims are all in your court. I don't see anyone else making really dumb claims except you TDK.

Really... you claim Russell was a "better" player than Hondo in 68 and 69 based on MVP "votes". Using your logic 1979-80 Dan Roundfield was a better player than Moses Malone because he received more MVP votes.

That's kinda ridiculous and dumb, no?

Yeah. A troll search that found Roundfield getting a whole two votes invalidates everything.

You're 45 years old. When do you think might be a reasonable time to start actually being a grown up?

[thedangerouskitchen]

Nope, you still don't grasp how this works, but given your history as a poster I'm not surprised. It's not "just" titles and MVP's, it's the entire body of work.

Kobe
5x Champ
1x MVP
2x FMVP
16x All Star
11x All NBA 1st Team
2x All NBA 2nd Team
2x All NBA 3rd Team
9x All NBA Defensive 1st Team
3x All NBA 2nd Team
2x Scoring Champ
#3 All Time PO Scoring
#4 All Time Regular Season Scoring

Hondo
8x Champ
1x FMVP
13x All Star
4x All NBA 1st Team
7x All NBA 2nd Team
5x All NBA Defensive 1st Team
3x All NBA 2nd Team


Kobe has the superior résumé and it's not that close.

NEXT?

lol at Kobe's 1st Team Defense selections... even his very own coach said those selections were based on popularity, not merit. Plus, Hondo owns several more selections if they picked Defensive teams sooner.

...and sorry but for YEARS we listened to you Kobe Slobbers going on and on about Kobe needing 1 more ring to equal Jordan, yet NOW you ant to change the criteria because Hondo has 3 more rings than Kobe.

That's bush league trolling dude... you should be ashamed.

Your excuses will be noted, but ultimately mean nothing. Again, by your logic, if the FMVP was available for Russell to win, he'd arguably have 6-8, making him the GOAT over Jordan.

It's idiotic to try and quantify what someone "woulda coulda shoulda" won, and much more logically sound to go off of what actually happened.

Kobe >> Hondo

The facts are on my side, the excuses are on your side.

I win.

In other words you're penalizing Havlicek (and Mikan) for not winning FMVP during the seasons when it didn't exist.

Got it...

[vcsgrizzfan]

lol at Kobe's 1st Team Defense selections... even his very own coach said those selections were based on popularity, not merit. Plus, Hondo owns several more selections if they picked Defensive teams sooner.

...and sorry but for YEARS we listened to you Kobe Slobbers going on and on about Kobe needing 1 more ring to equal Jordan, yet NOW you ant to change the criteria because Hondo has 3 more rings than Kobe.

That's bush league trolling dude... you should be ashamed.

Your excuses will be noted, but ultimately mean nothing. Again, by your logic, if the FMVP was available for Russell to win, he'd arguably have 6-8, making him the GOAT over Jordan.

It's idiotic to try and quantify what someone "woulda coulda shoulda" won, and much more logically sound to go off of what actually happened.

Kobe >> Hondo

The facts are on my side, the excuses are on your side.

I win.

In other words you're penalizing Havlicek (and Mikan) for not winning FMVP during the seasons when it didn't exist.

Got it...

Russell would have 7 or 8. Got it.

[LNS]

lol at Kobe's 1st Team Defense selections... even his very own coach said those selections were based on popularity, not merit. Plus, Hondo owns several more selections if they picked Defensive teams sooner.

...and sorry but for YEARS we listened to you Kobe Slobbers going on and on about Kobe needing 1 more ring to equal Jordan, yet NOW you ant to change the criteria because Hondo has 3 more rings than Kobe.

That's bush league trolling dude... you should be ashamed.

Your excuses will be noted, but ultimately mean nothing. Again, by your logic, if the FMVP was available for Russell to win, he'd arguably have 6-8, making him the GOAT over Jordan.

It's idiotic to try and quantify what someone "woulda coulda shoulda" won, and much more logically sound to go off of what actually happened.

Kobe >> Hondo

The facts are on my side, the excuses are on your side.

I win.

In other words you're penalizing Havlicek (and Mikan) for not winning FMVP during the seasons when it didn't exist.

Got it...

If we don't penalize him, then we use that logic across the board, understand? That means Russell has 6-8 FMVP's, maybe 5-7 DPOY awards, multiple All NBA Defensive 1st Team selections, and he'd probably be an All Time leader in blocked shots as well.

He already had an argument for the GOAT spot, but that bump in accolades he didn't win should be enough to put him past MJ.

Sound fair?

[thedangerouskitchen]

The ridiculous claims are all in your court. I don't see anyone else making really dumb claims except you TDK.

Really... you claim Russell was a "better" player than Hondo in 68 and 69 based on MVP "votes". Using your logic 1979-80 Dan Roundfield was a better player than Moses Malone because he received more MVP votes.

That's kinda ridiculous and dumb, no?

Yeah. A troll search that found Roundfield getting a whole two votes invalidates everything.

You're 45 years old. When do you think might be a reasonable time to start actually being a grown up?

Oh I see... so NOW it's not just "more" votes, now it's got to be a certain number more??



BTW... how many MVP votes did Russell receive in 1968?

[thedangerouskitchen]

Your excuses will be noted, but ultimately mean nothing. Again, by your logic, if the FMVP was available for Russell to win, he'd arguably have 6-8, making him the GOAT over Jordan.

It's idiotic to try and quantify what someone "woulda coulda shoulda" won, and much more logically sound to go off of what actually happened.

Kobe >> Hondo

The facts are on my side, the excuses are on your side.

I win.

In other words you're penalizing Havlicek (and Mikan) for not winning FMVP during the seasons when it didn't exist.

Got it...

Russell would have 7 or 8. Got it.

Possibly... but what's that got to do with LNS penalizing players who played before the award came out?

I think it's past your bedtime Grizz... you're having trouble staying focused.

[LNS]

In other words you're penalizing Havlicek (and Mikan) for not winning FMVP during the seasons when it didn't exist.

Got it...

Russell would have 7 or 8. Got it.

Possibly... but what's that got to do with LNS penalizing players who played before the award came out?

I think it's past your bedtime Grizz... you're having trouble staying focused.

What do you mean "what does that have to do..?"

lol it's YOUR LOGIC, sparky! You can't say "we shouldn't penalize player A for not winning an award that didn't exist", and then feign indifference when the same logic is used for player B.

IF we do not penalize Hondo for not winning FMVP when it didn't exist, then we also can't penalize Russell for not winning FMVP or DPOY when the awards didn't exist, and that means Russell would be the GOAT over MJ.

Too easy...

[vcsgrizzfan]

In other words you're penalizing Havlicek (and Mikan) for not winning FMVP during the seasons when it didn't exist.

Got it...

Russell would have 7 or 8. Got it.

Possibly... but what's that got to do with LNS penalizing players who played before the award came out?

I think it's past your bedtime Grizz... you're having trouble staying focused.

Maybe because the award hadn't come out and you don't want to give Russell credit for his? You always want to suck and whistle at the same time TDK.

And it is close to my bedtime, even though I am in a later time zone than you. Might explain why I have a six pack at 55 and you are obese despite being ten years younger.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Your excuses will be noted, but ultimately mean nothing. Again, by your logic, if the FMVP was available for Russell to win, he'd arguably have 6-8, making him the GOAT over Jordan.

It's idiotic to try and quantify what someone "woulda coulda shoulda" won, and much more logically sound to go off of what actually happened.

Kobe >> Hondo

The facts are on my side, the excuses are on your side.

I win.

In other words you're penalizing Havlicek (and Mikan) for not winning FMVP during the seasons when it didn't exist.

Got it...

If we don't penalize him, then we use that logic across the board, understand? That means Russell has 6-8 FMVP's, maybe 5-7 DPOY awards, multiple All NBA Defensive 1st Team selections, and he'd probably be an All Time leader in blocked shots as well.

He already had an argument for the GOAT spot, but that bump in accolades he didn't win should be enough to put him past MJ.

Sound fair?

I think pretty much anyone who currently thinks Russell is the GOAT has already taken those things into account.

Even with those awards, however, Russell was a liability on Offense / Scoring for most of his career... he didn't "have to" dominate on both sides of the ball because he played alongside an Offensively dominant team.

Jordan, on the other hand, "had to" dominate on both sides of the ball in order for the Bulls to win... thus, Jordan was still the (much, MUCH) better two-way player, making more of an impact on Offense and Defense combined than Russell.

Russell inherited a playoff caliber team with a HOF backcourt and the #1 Offense and #1 Rebounding team in the league. Jordan inherited a bottom-feeder.

Jordan is regarded as the most dominanting Playoffs / Finals performer in history... and the most Clutch ever.

Jordan is the greatest Scorer and Defender at his position... Russ can't say that. Jordan was his era's undisputed best player and greatest winner. Russ can't say that either.

In other words there are still a boatload of reasons why Jordan is the GOAT.. regardless of how many awards Russell would have won had they been around back then.