First Official Angergeneral top 10 GOAT..

[town bidness]

Town Bidness got his shit pushed in this thread. Good job wrangling in that wild Kobe Kid


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

you are certainly not stupid enough to believe that. i know you are not.

[AbeVigodaLive]

kobe is the more athletic player in every facet and kobe was the SMARTER player in every facet of the gave as evidenced by his PLAY and SUCCESS.

This is why some debates just aren't worth it. When something like that is written, the author is screaming "I'M JUST FUCKING WITH YOU!"

I'm not saying Bird is smarter than Kobe. Or vice-versa. I'm saying claiming one was "smarter" than the other in every facet without any tangible proof or anecdotal proof is just lazy trolling.

And obviously, the author believes he's a better troll than that... otherwise he wouldn't have wasted so much time crafted such long responses...

"This is why some debates just aren't worth it. When something like that is written, the author is screaming "I'M JUST FUCKING WITH YOU!""

that is a reflection upon those that need to say such to themselves as a coping mechanism for having the truth shoved in their face.

that's not my problem, lol.

"I'm not saying Bird is smarter than Kobe. Or vice-versa."

of course you wouldnt... you have problems with that sort of thing.

"I" am unequivocally saying kobe is smarter than bird and you know what is compelling evidence? the player with the better play and better success. it doesnt require ones feelings and it's common sense. easy aint it?

"And obviously, the author believes he's a better troll than that... otherwise he wouldn't have wasted so much time crafted such long responses..."

i dont believe it i know it and you can use what ever euphemism you want for truth telling. again, it's a reflection upon you.

it's time spent on a message board so isnt it all wasted time? besides, it's a few paragraphs... if you find that taxing i dont know what to tell you.

replying line by line is me showing respect to the simp i happen to be browbeating at the time. i aim for precision and i like to make myself abundantly clear.

that is all.

That's just terrible.

I'm bored with you already. Laettner.

[Robceltsfan]

again, what difference does it make that a forward that played in an era with more possessions and a faster pace has more rebounds than a GUARD... that mainly played point? why does this seem like a compelling point to you? it's grasping for straws.

OK, let's put this pace of play thing to rest. I'm all about pointing out the difference in pace of play from the 60's to the early 2000's. The difference was huge. But from the late 80's to the early 2000's, the difference wasn't quite as large. In the 01-02 season the Lakers had a pace of play of 92.1 while the 85-86 Celtics 98.6. That's a 7% difference in pace of play. Kobe's usage % that year was 30.4% while Bird's was 27.6%, a 10% difference. So Kobe's ball dominance more than makes up for the difference in pace of play.

I know you're all about Kobe "leading championship teams in assists", but the bottom line is that those Laker squads never had a true ball handling point guard and therefore never had anyone with decent assist totals playing for them. For you to say that Kobe involved his teammates more than Bird did isn't even wrong......it's ludicrous, and the stats back that up. Bird was able to garner more assists while not being the primary ball handler and still score just as effectively as Kobe.

how is bird more clutch than kobe? no one has more game winners and no one has won in more ways than kobe in the modern game. especially bird who is under the dream all time. too bad bird didnt play world class defense.

Laker fans keep grasping at this falsehood of Kobe being the clutchest player of all-time. Simply put, it isn't true. He may have the most game winners of all-time, but if he does, that's only because he likely has at least TWICE as many game winning attempts as any other player in history. It's just another meaningless volume stat that Kobe's superior longevity and selfishness has garnered. And for you to say Bird wasn't an amazing defensive player is also short-sighted. True, he wasn't athletic and wasn't going to be a lock-down perimeter defender. But did you know that Bird led the NBA in defensive win shares FOUR times? Kobe never did that even once. I place Kobe in the Derek Jeter category of defensive player........grossly overrated. Bird averaged more steals during his career. Bird has more defensive win shares than Kobe despite playing almost 350 less games. Bird has a better career defensive rating (101 versus 105 for Kobe), despite playing in a slightly faster paced era. Bird's defense was underrated, Kobe's overrated. I'd give Kobe the slight edge defensively because he's simply more athletic. But the difference is not that great.

sorry, i forgot about this thread.

"Laker fans keep grasping at this falsehood of Kobe being the clutchest player of all-time."

it's just reality you cant accept because you must keep your delusion alive.

"Simply put, it isn't true. He may have the most game winners of all-time, but if he does, that's only because he likely has at least TWICE as many game winning attempts as any other player in history."

right..... just like how kareem is the greatest scorer of all time and you know what... he's taken the most shots of all time also. jordan is in third place as far as attempts go and imagine that.... he's third place all time points scored.

it's pretty simple how that works. if you do it the most you get the credit of being the best at it. here's a bit more of common sense for you, "more game winners = good". everyone on earth knows who is going to take the shot at the end and he's still made the most even though he took the most. how could he make more than other closers while taking less game winners genius? lol. another terrible argument. basically logic free nonsense.

"And for you to say Bird wasn't an amazing defensive player is also short-sighted."

LOL, i watched him and he was average at best to slightly below average. amazing defensive players can make more than 3 second all defensive teams and DEFINITELY more than ZERO first teams. this is just a completely superficial view of what you are comparing here... not even going in any real depth. unbelievable.

give me a fucking break. let me guess... dirk is a tremendous defender also in your myopic view of bball?

"But did you know that Bird led the NBA in defensive win shares FOUR times? Kobe never did that even once. I place Kobe in the Derek Jeter category of defensive player........grossly overrated. Bird averaged more steals during his career."

LOL, holy shit you are desperate. defensive win share four times eh? woooooooow.

steals? good for bird. i'm sure iverson was a defensive giant in your eyes.

good thing the coaches for the nba were not as terrible at simple analysis over the last 35 years. no one with a fulling function brain would say this. i actually fear for your mental well being.

kobe with all of his nine defensive first teams from coaches in the league and many years of stellar defense is 'grossly overrated' but bird and his defensive win share is solid proof in your eyes? mind you again that is in the purview of the simple minded, superficial bball fan.

"Bird has a better career defensive rating (101 versus 105 for Kobe), despite playing in a slightly faster paced era. Bird's defense was underrated, Kobe's overrated. I'd give Kobe the slight edge defensively because he's simply more athletic. But the difference is not that great."

LOL... holy shit.. all of that just to concede to reality in the most backhanded, intellectually dishonest and detached from reality sort of way that kobe is indeed the better defender because he is "more athletic". lol, either you have a character flaw of some sort or you must think low of me.

kobe is the more athletic player in every facet and kobe was the SMARTER player in every facet of the gave as evidenced by his PLAY and SUCCESS.

there is nothing you can do about it either. plus he didnt even need the greatest front line in history either, lol.

why did you focus so narrowly on this and dodge all of the other details in my post prior? you assertion about birds shooting, etc was stomped on.[/quote]



right..... just like how kareem is the greatest scorer of all time and you know what... he's taken the most shots of all time also. jordan is in third place as far as attempts go and imagine that.... he's third place all time points scored.

it's pretty simple how that works. if you do it the most you get the credit of being the best at it. here's a bit more of common sense for you, "more game winners = good". everyone on earth knows who is going to take the shot at the end and he's still made the most even though he took the most. how could he make more than other closers while taking less game winners genius? lol. another terrible argument. basically logic free nonsense.

I really don't know the stats, but for arguments sake we'll do this.

Kobe has 35 game winners in his career.
Bird has 25 game winners in his career.
Kobe has taken 120 game winning shot attempts.
Bird has taken 70 game winning shot attempts.

So to you, Kobe is more clutch because he hit 10 more game winners despite taking 50 more shot attempts? And you say my logic is flawed? You can't compare something like Kobe's game winners against Kareem's scoring. True, both are volume stats, but Kobe's is situational and "clutchness" is based on percentages, not volume. Kobe hit game winners at a very pedestrian pace but getting 2, 3, maybe 4 times as many buzzer beater attempts as other stars does NOT make him the clutchest of all-time. I'm sorry you believe that is the case. It isn't.


And please tell me when you stomped on the portion of my argument where Bird was a better shooter. This isn't debatable. Bird IS the better shooter on almost every single level possible. Kobe can dunk better than Bird, so he has that.

[town bidness]

This is why some debates just aren't worth it. When something like that is written, the author is screaming "I'M JUST FUCKING WITH YOU!"

I'm not saying Bird is smarter than Kobe. Or vice-versa. I'm saying claiming one was "smarter" than the other in every facet without any tangible proof or anecdotal proof is just lazy trolling.

And obviously, the author believes he's a better troll than that... otherwise he wouldn't have wasted so much time crafted such long responses...

"This is why some debates just aren't worth it. When something like that is written, the author is screaming "I'M JUST FUCKING WITH YOU!""

that is a reflection upon those that need to say such to themselves as a coping mechanism for having the truth shoved in their face.

that's not my problem, lol.

"I'm not saying Bird is smarter than Kobe. Or vice-versa."

of course you wouldnt... you have problems with that sort of thing.

"I" am unequivocally saying kobe is smarter than bird and you know what is compelling evidence? the player with the better play and better success. it doesnt require ones feelings and it's common sense. easy aint it?

"And obviously, the author believes he's a better troll than that... otherwise he wouldn't have wasted so much time crafted such long responses..."

i dont believe it i know it and you can use what ever euphemism you want for truth telling. again, it's a reflection upon you.

it's time spent on a message board so isnt it all wasted time? besides, it's a few paragraphs... if you find that taxing i dont know what to tell you.

replying line by line is me showing respect to the simp i happen to be browbeating at the time. i aim for precision and i like to make myself abundantly clear.

that is all.

That's just terrible.

I'm bored with you already. Laettner.

uh huh.

no that's not boredom, you knew you shouldnt have even tried so it's time to attempt to save face and bow out somewhat gracefully. i agree with the former and sympathize with the latter, lol.

the collective foggy, sepia toned bs zeitgeist of you and bob (and others i am sure) here aside.... there is no argument for bird anyways. bird is barely top ten while kobe is past the clouds at #2 and it's not just because he's more 'athletic', even though that is a part of it. it's mainly brain matter, dedication, will and some good fortune.

now dont let that stop you from holding bird in high regard, i do... just nowhere near as high as kobe. i know it sucks... beat up on by magic and passed by kobe at blinding speed. bird did not live up to the dreams of many celtics fans so i completely understand your resentment of the lakers.

ta ta abe, lol.

[Deez]

"This is why some debates just aren't worth it. When something like that is written, the author is screaming "I'M JUST FUCKING WITH YOU!""

that is a reflection upon those that need to say such to themselves as a coping mechanism for having the truth shoved in their face.

that's not my problem, lol.

"I'm not saying Bird is smarter than Kobe. Or vice-versa."

of course you wouldnt... you have problems with that sort of thing.

"I" am unequivocally saying kobe is smarter than bird and you know what is compelling evidence? the player with the better play and better success. it doesnt require ones feelings and it's common sense. easy aint it?

"And obviously, the author believes he's a better troll than that... otherwise he wouldn't have wasted so much time crafted such long responses..."

i dont believe it i know it and you can use what ever euphemism you want for truth telling. again, it's a reflection upon you.

it's time spent on a message board so isnt it all wasted time? besides, it's a few paragraphs... if you find that taxing i dont know what to tell you.

replying line by line is me showing respect to the simp i happen to be browbeating at the time. i aim for precision and i like to make myself abundantly clear.

that is all.

That's just terrible.

I'm bored with you already. Laettner.

uh huh.

no that's not boredom, you knew you shouldnt have even tried so it's time to attempt to save face and bow out somewhat gracefully. i agree with the former and sympathize with the latter, lol.

the collective foggy, sepia toned bs zeitgeist of you and bob (and others i am sure) here aside.... there is no argument for bird anyways. bird is barely top ten while kobe is past the clouds at #2 and it's not just because he's more 'athletic', even though that is a part of it. it's mainly brain matter, dedication, will and some good fortune.

now dont let that stop you from holding bird in high regard, i do... just nowhere near as high as kobe. i know it sucks... beat up on by magic and passed by kobe at blinding speed. bird did not live up to the dreams of many celtics fans so i completely understand your resentment of the lakers.

ta ta abe, lol.

Kobe hasn't reach top 5 yet, please don't make yourself look foolish by saying #2 lol.

[Robceltsfan]

And further to your response about Kareem and his points, I assume you think that Karl Malone was a better scorer than Michael Jordan, right? I suppose Robert Parish was a better scorer than Larry Bird???

Kobe Kids bank on volume stats because of his longevity. I get that and I'm OK with you trying to use that as a source of arguing power, but it won't fly with me. Kareem is not the greatest scorer of all-time, he simply took alot of shots over a long career. The career points list is fairly worthless. A guy that plays 10 seasons and averages 25 PPG is an infinetly better scorer than a guy who averages 15 PPG over 20 seasons.

[Robceltsfan]

And saying Kobe is the second greatest of all-time (ahead of his Airness) makes anything else you type on this board irrelevant. There isn't any viable argument that can be made to place Kobe and MJ in the same sentence.

Please stop.

[Deez]

And saying Kobe is the second greatest of all-time (ahead of his Airness) makes anything else you type on this board irrelevant. There isn't any viable argument that can be made to place Kobe and MJ in the same sentence.

Please stop.

Yeah that's a flipping joke. 1. MJ 2. Kareem 3. Not Kobe

[town bidness]

sorry, i forgot about this thread.

"Laker fans keep grasping at this falsehood of Kobe being the clutchest player of all-time."

it's just reality you cant accept because you must keep your delusion alive.

"Simply put, it isn't true. He may have the most game winners of all-time, but if he does, that's only because he likely has at least TWICE as many game winning attempts as any other player in history."

right..... just like how kareem is the greatest scorer of all time and you know what... he's taken the most shots of all time also. jordan is in third place as far as attempts go and imagine that.... he's third place all time points scored.

it's pretty simple how that works. if you do it the most you get the credit of being the best at it. here's a bit more of common sense for you, "more game winners = good". everyone on earth knows who is going to take the shot at the end and he's still made the most even though he took the most. how could he make more than other closers while taking less game winners genius? lol. another terrible argument. basically logic free nonsense.

"And for you to say Bird wasn't an amazing defensive player is also short-sighted."

LOL, i watched him and he was average at best to slightly below average. amazing defensive players can make more than 3 second all defensive teams and DEFINITELY more than ZERO first teams. this is just a completely superficial view of what you are comparing here... not even going in any real depth. unbelievable.

give me a fucking break. let me guess... dirk is a tremendous defender also in your myopic view of bball?

"But did you know that Bird led the NBA in defensive win shares FOUR times? Kobe never did that even once. I place Kobe in the Derek Jeter category of defensive player........grossly overrated. Bird averaged more steals during his career."

LOL, holy shit you are desperate. defensive win share four times eh? woooooooow.

steals? good for bird. i'm sure iverson was a defensive giant in your eyes.

good thing the coaches for the nba were not as terrible at simple analysis over the last 35 years. no one with a fulling function brain would say this. i actually fear for your mental well being.

kobe with all of his nine defensive first teams from coaches in the league and many years of stellar defense is 'grossly overrated' but bird and his defensive win share is solid proof in your eyes? mind you again that is in the purview of the simple minded, superficial bball fan.

"Bird has a better career defensive rating (101 versus 105 for Kobe), despite playing in a slightly faster paced era. Bird's defense was underrated, Kobe's overrated. I'd give Kobe the slight edge defensively because he's simply more athletic. But the difference is not that great."

LOL... holy shit.. all of that just to concede to reality in the most backhanded, intellectually dishonest and detached from reality sort of way that kobe is indeed the better defender because he is "more athletic". lol, either you have a character flaw of some sort or you must think low of me.

kobe is the more athletic player in every facet and kobe was the SMARTER player in every facet of the gave as evidenced by his PLAY and SUCCESS.

there is nothing you can do about it either. plus he didnt even need the greatest front line in history either, lol.

why did you focus so narrowly on this and dodge all of the other details in my post prior? you assertion about birds shooting, etc was stomped on.[/quote]



right..... just like how kareem is the greatest scorer of all time and you know what... he's taken the most shots of all time also. jordan is in third place as far as attempts go and imagine that.... he's third place all time points scored.

it's pretty simple how that works. if you do it the most you get the credit of being the best at it. here's a bit more of common sense for you, "more game winners = good". everyone on earth knows who is going to take the shot at the end and he's still made the most even though he took the most. how could he make more than other closers while taking less game winners genius? lol. another terrible argument. basically logic free nonsense.

I really don't know the stats, but for arguments sake we'll do this.

Kobe has 35 game winners in his career.
Bird has 25 game winners in his career.
Kobe has taken 120 game winning shot attempts.
Bird has taken 70 game winning shot attempts.

So to you, Kobe is more clutch because he hit 10 more game winners despite taking 50 more shot attempts? And you say my logic is flawed? You can't compare something like Kobe's game winners against Kareem's scoring. True, both are volume stats, but Kobe's is situational and "clutchness" is based on percentages, not volume. Kobe hit game winners at a very pedestrian pace but getting 2, 3, maybe 4 times as many buzzer beater attempts as other stars does NOT make him the clutchest of all-time. I'm sorry you believe that is the case. It isn't.


And please tell me when you stomped on the portion of my argument where Bird was a better shooter. This isn't debatable. Bird IS the better shooter on almost every single level possible. Kobe can dunk better than Bird, so he has that.[/quote]







So to you, Kobe is more clutch because he hit 10 more game winners despite taking 50 more shot attempts?

i'd rather use the real stats but even in your scenario.. YES KOBE IS MORE CLUTCH FOR DELIVERING MORE IN THE CLUTCH REGARDLESS OF YOUR PERSONAL FEELINGS. those game winners are not subject to pace, to number of possessions, etc so it's a very straight forward metric wouldnt you agree? either you sealed the game or you didnt regardless of era. it's like trying to argue 5 is more than 10. worrying about the percentage, etc is for the feeble minded that never get to kobes' level of play.

"And you say my logic is flawed?"

i do and i have aptly pointed out your flawed non-logic in detail.

"True, both are volume stats, but Kobe's is situational and "clutchness" is based on percentages, not volume."

lol... really? did you want to reframe this i think your thought process has become muddled.

"Kobe hit game winners at a very pedestrian pace but getting 2, 3, maybe 4 times as many buzzer beater attempts as other stars does NOT make him the clutchest of all-time. I'm sorry you believe that is the case. It isn't."

ok fair enough... i'll play along. if kobe knocking down game winners is pedestrian even though we all know he has the most all time... who is an example of exemplary closing and why?

"And please tell me when you stomped on the portion of my argument where Bird was a better shooter. This isn't debatable. Bird IS the better shooter on almost every single level possible. Kobe can dunk better than Bird, so he has that"

re-read the entire thread if you must. there is a record of the conversation above, lol. no bird was not a better shooter neither. a 4% difference while shooting half as many points to the opposite.... unless you think birds 3pt% would stay the same or go up if he doubled his 3pt output... you cant believe that.

[town bidness]

That's just terrible.

I'm bored with you already. Laettner.

uh huh.

no that's not boredom, you knew you shouldnt have even tried so it's time to attempt to save face and bow out somewhat gracefully. i agree with the former and sympathize with the latter, lol.

the collective foggy, sepia toned bs zeitgeist of you and bob (and others i am sure) here aside.... there is no argument for bird anyways. bird is barely top ten while kobe is past the clouds at #2 and it's not just because he's more 'athletic', even though that is a part of it. it's mainly brain matter, dedication, will and some good fortune.

now dont let that stop you from holding bird in high regard, i do... just nowhere near as high as kobe. i know it sucks... beat up on by magic and passed by kobe at blinding speed. bird did not live up to the dreams of many celtics fans so i completely understand your resentment of the lakers.

ta ta abe, lol.

Kobe hasn't reach top 5 yet, please don't make yourself look foolish by saying #2 lol.

sure.. whatever gets you through the night cupcake.

[Deez]

[/i][/b]

uh huh.

no that's not boredom, you knew you shouldnt have even tried so it's time to attempt to save face and bow out somewhat gracefully. i agree with the former and sympathize with the latter, lol.

the collective foggy, sepia toned bs zeitgeist of you and bob (and others i am sure) here aside.... there is no argument for bird anyways. bird is barely top ten while kobe is past the clouds at #2 and it's not just because he's more 'athletic', even though that is a part of it. it's mainly brain matter, dedication, will and some good fortune.

now dont let that stop you from holding bird in high regard, i do... just nowhere near as high as kobe. i know it sucks... beat up on by magic and passed by kobe at blinding speed. bird did not live up to the dreams of many celtics fans so i completely understand your resentment of the lakers.

ta ta abe, lol.

Kobe hasn't reach top 5 yet, please don't make yourself look foolish by saying #2 lol.

sure.. whatever gets you through the night cupcake.

No seriously, there is no way you believe he's #2. I don't know a single expert, analyst human being with any knowledge that would ever agree with that. They would all laugh in your face. Come on man

[town bidness]

And saying Kobe is the second greatest of all-time (ahead of his Airness) makes anything else you type on this board irrelevant. There isn't any viable argument that can be made to place Kobe and MJ in the same sentence.

Please stop.

yes kobe is #2. jordan is #4 and it is very prestigious to be under magic johnson. hell, ask larry bird, lol.

let the appeals to popular sentiment continue... but it's of no use. it's yet another subject like any other subject that you'd simply lose.

[Robceltsfan]

sorry, i forgot about this thread.

"Laker fans keep grasping at this falsehood of Kobe being the clutchest player of all-time."

it's just reality you cant accept because you must keep your delusion alive.

"Simply put, it isn't true. He may have the most game winners of all-time, but if he does, that's only because he likely has at least TWICE as many game winning attempts as any other player in history."

right..... just like how kareem is the greatest scorer of all time and you know what... he's taken the most shots of all time also. jordan is in third place as far as attempts go and imagine that.... he's third place all time points scored.

it's pretty simple how that works. if you do it the most you get the credit of being the best at it. here's a bit more of common sense for you, "more game winners = good". everyone on earth knows who is going to take the shot at the end and he's still made the most even though he took the most. how could he make more than other closers while taking less game winners genius? lol. another terrible argument. basically logic free nonsense.

"And for you to say Bird wasn't an amazing defensive player is also short-sighted."

LOL, i watched him and he was average at best to slightly below average. amazing defensive players can make more than 3 second all defensive teams and DEFINITELY more than ZERO first teams. this is just a completely superficial view of what you are comparing here... not even going in any real depth. unbelievable.

give me a fucking break. let me guess... dirk is a tremendous defender also in your myopic view of bball?

"But did you know that Bird led the NBA in defensive win shares FOUR times? Kobe never did that even once. I place Kobe in the Derek Jeter category of defensive player........grossly overrated. Bird averaged more steals during his career."

LOL, holy shit you are desperate. defensive win share four times eh? woooooooow.

steals? good for bird. i'm sure iverson was a defensive giant in your eyes.

good thing the coaches for the nba were not as terrible at simple analysis over the last 35 years. no one with a fulling function brain would say this. i actually fear for your mental well being.

kobe with all of his nine defensive first teams from coaches in the league and many years of stellar defense is 'grossly overrated' but bird and his defensive win share is solid proof in your eyes? mind you again that is in the purview of the simple minded, superficial bball fan.

"Bird has a better career defensive rating (101 versus 105 for Kobe), despite playing in a slightly faster paced era. Bird's defense was underrated, Kobe's overrated. I'd give Kobe the slight edge defensively because he's simply more athletic. But the difference is not that great."

LOL... holy shit.. all of that just to concede to reality in the most backhanded, intellectually dishonest and detached from reality sort of way that kobe is indeed the better defender because he is "more athletic". lol, either you have a character flaw of some sort or you must think low of me.

kobe is the more athletic player in every facet and kobe was the SMARTER player in every facet of the gave as evidenced by his PLAY and SUCCESS.

there is nothing you can do about it either. plus he didnt even need the greatest front line in history either, lol.

why did you focus so narrowly on this and dodge all of the other details in my post prior? you assertion about birds shooting, etc was stomped on.

right..... just like how kareem is the greatest scorer of all time and you know what... he's taken the most shots of all time also. jordan is in third place as far as attempts go and imagine that.... he's third place all time points scored.

it's pretty simple how that works. if you do it the most you get the credit of being the best at it. here's a bit more of common sense for you, "more game winners = good". everyone on earth knows who is going to take the shot at the end and he's still made the most even though he took the most. how could he make more than other closers while taking less game winners genius? lol. another terrible argument. basically logic free nonsense.

I really don't know the stats, but for arguments sake we'll do this.

Kobe has 35 game winners in his career.
Bird has 25 game winners in his career.
Kobe has taken 120 game winning shot attempts.
Bird has taken 70 game winning shot attempts.

So to you, Kobe is more clutch because he hit 10 more game winners despite taking 50 more shot attempts? And you say my logic is flawed? You can't compare something like Kobe's game winners against Kareem's scoring. True, both are volume stats, but Kobe's is situational and "clutchness" is based on percentages, not volume. Kobe hit game winners at a very pedestrian pace but getting 2, 3, maybe 4 times as many buzzer beater attempts as other stars does NOT make him the clutchest of all-time. I'm sorry you believe that is the case. It isn't.


And please tell me when you stomped on the portion of my argument where Bird was a better shooter. This isn't debatable. Bird IS the better shooter on almost every single level possible. Kobe can dunk better than Bird, so he has that.[/quote]







So to you, Kobe is more clutch because he hit 10 more game winners despite taking 50 more shot attempts?

i'd rather use the real stats but even in your scenario.. YES KOBE IS MORE CLUTCH FOR DELIVERING MORE IN THE CLUTCH REGARDLESS OF YOUR PERSONAL FEELINGS. those game winners are not subject to pace, to number of possessions, etc so it's a very straight forward metric wouldnt you agree? either you sealed the game or you didnt regardless of era. it's like trying to argue 5 is more than 10. worrying about the percentage, etc is for the feeble minded that never get to kobes' level of play.

"And you say my logic is flawed?"

i do and i have aptly pointed out your flawed non-logic in detail.

"True, both are volume stats, but Kobe's is situational and "clutchness" is based on percentages, not volume."

lol... really? did you want to reframe this i think your thought process has become muddled.

"Kobe hit game winners at a very pedestrian pace but getting 2, 3, maybe 4 times as many buzzer beater attempts as other stars does NOT make him the clutchest of all-time. I'm sorry you believe that is the case. It isn't."

ok fair enough... i'll play along. if kobe knocking down game winners is pedestrian even though we all know he has the most all time... who is an example of exemplary closing and why?

"And please tell me when you stomped on the portion of my argument where Bird was a better shooter. This isn't debatable. Bird IS the better shooter on almost every single level possible. Kobe can dunk better than Bird, so he has that"

re-read the entire thread if you must. there is a record of the conversation above, lol. no bird was not a better shooter neither. a 4% difference while shooting half as many points to the opposite.... unless you think birds 3pt% would stay the same or go up if he doubled his 3pt output... you cant believe that.[/quote]


OK, since you seem to like volume, let's see you deny this. If Kobe has taken the most buzzer beaters, regardless of % for your sake, wouldn't that lead you to believe he's missed the most buzzer beaters of all-time? Kobe has choked in the clutch more than any player in history because he has more missed buzzer beaters than anybody else.

Now, I know this isn't the truth, but by your logic that's how I should see it. I mean, if Kobe missed the most buzzer beaters all-time, that must make his the least clutch player ever, right?

C'mon man, you're losing badly at this point.

[Deez]

And saying Kobe is the second greatest of all-time (ahead of his Airness) makes anything else you type on this board irrelevant. There isn't any viable argument that can be made to place Kobe and MJ in the same sentence.

Please stop.

yes kobe is #2. jordan is #4 and it is very prestigious to be under magic johnson. hell, ask larry bird, lol.

let the appeals to popular sentiment continue... but it's of no use. it's yet another subject like any other subject that you'd simply lose.

Holy fuck, lmao. I thought artman was delusional.

[town bidness]

Kobe hasn't reach top 5 yet, please don't make yourself look foolish by saying #2 lol.

sure.. whatever gets you through the night cupcake.

No seriously, there is no way you believe he's #2. I don't know a single expert, analyst human being with any knowledge that would ever agree with that. They would all laugh in your face. Come on man

of course he is and i have no problems defending it. one can put magic at #2 and kobe at three but that's a hard sell. jordan has no place in the top three... top media darling and top purveyor of really cheap underwear? yes.

"don't know a single expert, analyst..."

just stop right there. i am sure you dont know any of the above so what is your point? either way.. even if you did, i dont give a fuck about the people you get your opinions from.

can you make your own argument or not?

[Deez]

sure.. whatever gets you through the night cupcake.

No seriously, there is no way you believe he's #2. I don't know a single expert, analyst human being with any knowledge that would ever agree with that. They would all laugh in your face. Come on man

of course he is and i have no problems defending it. one can put magic at #2 and kobe at three but that's a hard sell. jordan has no place in the top three... top media darling and top purveyor of really cheap underwear? yes.

"don't know a single expert, analyst..."

just stop right there. i am sure you dont know any of the above so what is your point? either way.. even if you did, i dont give a fuck about the people you get your opinions from.

can you make your own argument or not?

lol, k i'm done buying your trolling. You best just try somebody else. lol nobody with basketball knowledge would believe any of your garbage.

[Robceltsfan]

sure.. whatever gets you through the night cupcake.

No seriously, there is no way you believe he's #2. I don't know a single expert, analyst human being with any knowledge that would ever agree with that. They would all laugh in your face. Come on man

of course he is and i have no problems defending it. one can put magic at #2 and kobe at three but that's a hard sell. jordan has no place in the top three... top media darling and top purveyor of really cheap underwear? yes.

"don't know a single expert, analyst..."

just stop right there. i am sure you dont know any of the above so what is your point? either way.. even if you did, i dont give a fuck about the people you get your opinions from.

can you make your own argument or not?

You can't cure crazy (not without medication anyways) so there's no point in arguing with you anymore. Saying Kobe or Magic are better than Jordan in any sense is simply stupid. It makes me feel bad for wasting so much time debating with you. That's simply strange to think that. I've never had contact with a bigger homer than you.

[Deez]

No seriously, there is no way you believe he's #2. I don't know a single expert, analyst human being with any knowledge that would ever agree with that. They would all laugh in your face. Come on man

of course he is and i have no problems defending it. one can put magic at #2 and kobe at three but that's a hard sell. jordan has no place in the top three... top media darling and top purveyor of really cheap underwear? yes.

"don't know a single expert, analyst..."

just stop right there. i am sure you dont know any of the above so what is your point? either way.. even if you did, i dont give a fuck about the people you get your opinions from.

can you make your own argument or not?

You can't cure crazy (not without medication anyways) so there's no point in arguing with you anymore. Saying Kobe or Magic are better than Jordan in any sense is simply stupid. It makes me feel bad for wasting so much time debating with you. That's simply strange to think that. I've never had contact with a bigger homer than you.

I think he's in trolling mode right now. I have a hard time believing anybody in the world is dumb enough to believe the nonsense he typed. He's in his own world.

[Robceltsfan]

of course he is and i have no problems defending it. one can put magic at #2 and kobe at three but that's a hard sell. jordan has no place in the top three... top media darling and top purveyor of really cheap underwear? yes.

"don't know a single expert, analyst..."

just stop right there. i am sure you dont know any of the above so what is your point? either way.. even if you did, i dont give a fuck about the people you get your opinions from.

can you make your own argument or not?

You can't cure crazy (not without medication anyways) so there's no point in arguing with you anymore. Saying Kobe or Magic are better than Jordan in any sense is simply stupid. It makes me feel bad for wasting so much time debating with you. That's simply strange to think that. I've never had contact with a bigger homer than you.

I think he's in trolling mode right now. I have a hard time believing anybody in the world is dumb enough to believe the nonsense he typed. He's in his own world.

No, I've heard him say this many times before. He believes this trash.

[Deez]

You can't cure crazy (not without medication anyways) so there's no point in arguing with you anymore. Saying Kobe or Magic are better than Jordan in any sense is simply stupid. It makes me feel bad for wasting so much time debating with you. That's simply strange to think that. I've never had contact with a bigger homer than you.

I think he's in trolling mode right now. I have a hard time believing anybody in the world is dumb enough to believe the nonsense he typed. He's in his own world.

No, I've heard him say this many times before. He believes this trash.

Wow well that's too bad. He should probably get help. There is literally 0 argument for Kobe to even sniff being in the same sentence as MJ