Kevin Garnett completely eviscerates the BWGC; confirming everything TDK has been saying about the Modern Era

[thedangerouskitchen]

Defense is soft today (much, much softer than it was in the late 80's through about the mid 00's), and again, that was confirmed earlier this year by the league itself and many current players/coaches (including LeBron).

That's a fact.

No… it’s literally an opinion. This isn’t even a case of semantics. There’s no way to measure “toughness” aside from an opinion. It’s on the level of “my fav fighter could beat up your fav fighter”.

TDK has zero ability to recognize his cognitive bias. Appeal to authority is great when it supports an opinion he likes. It's not valid when it's an opinion he differs with. You can't make this stuff up.

Why does the league itself (along with numerous current players/coaches) agree with TDK?

[thedangerouskitchen]

It's nonsense, just like all your hoops takes. There have been no material rule changes since 2006 enforcement of hand check rules, and that has long since been abandoned. If you watched, you'd know. KG just "muh era" nonsense.

So KGs take is just wrong according to some people who never set foot on a basketball court let alone high level?

Garnett confirmed what the LEAGUE ITSELF (and many of the "current" players/coaches) stated earlier this year. But I guess we should believe couch-potatoe fans (like grizz) because hurr-durr, they know better.

[ElJorge]

Defense is soft today (much, much softer than it was in the late 80's through about the mid 00's), and again, that was confirmed earlier this year by the league itself and many current players/coaches (including LeBron).

That's a fact.

No… it’s literally an opinion. This isn’t even a case of semantics. There’s no way to measure “toughness” aside from an opinion. It’s on the level of “my fav fighter could beat up your fav fighter”.

No, actually it's not... if you were around in the 80's-00's it's as clear as the sunrise that Defense today is significantly less physical (ie; softer). But if the eyeball test isn't good enough, all you need to do is read what the league itself said earlier this year, which was echoed by numerous "curent" players and coaches, not to mention boatloads of former players/coaches.

So you got it backwards, actually... claiming Defense today isN't softer is on the level of saying 3-point shooting isn't better today (than it was in the 80's-90's).

Yes… it factually is an opinion. You can’t prove it isn’t other than “so and so says differently” which is also an opinion lol. Can you statistically or measurably prove otherwise? No.. you cannot. Don’t be an Artman and claim opinions are facts. They aren’t. It’s literally a “back in my day” argument. It’s completely baseless.

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

No… it’s literally an opinion. This isn’t even a case of semantics. There’s no way to measure “toughness” aside from an opinion. It’s on the level of “my fav fighter could beat up your fav fighter”.

TDK has zero ability to recognize his cognitive bias. Appeal to authority is great when it supports an opinion he likes. It's not valid when it's an opinion he differs with. You can't make this stuff up.

Why does the league itself (along with numerous current players/coaches) agree with TDK?

Do you even know what appeal to authority means? Sometimes I think you are completely brain dead. You love to use it with opinions you agree with, but dismiss it when it contradicts you. When a player like KG says LeBron is GOAT, that doesn't count. But if he says half the players today couldn't play in "muh day", that does count. What is so funny is that the vast, vast majority of guys today could play in his day, but tons of players from his day couldn't hope to see an NBA roster today.

[thedangerouskitchen]

No… it’s literally an opinion. This isn’t even a case of semantics. There’s no way to measure “toughness” aside from an opinion. It’s on the level of “my fav fighter could beat up your fav fighter”.

No, actually it's not... if you were around in the 80's-00's it's as clear as the sunrise that Defense today is significantly less physical (ie; softer). But if the eyeball test isn't good enough, all you need to do is read what the league itself said earlier this year, which was echoed by numerous "curent" players and coaches, not to mention boatloads of former players/coaches.

So you got it backwards, actually... claiming Defense today isN't softer is on the level of saying 3-point shooting isn't better today (than it was in the 80's-90's).

Yes… it factually is an opinion. You can’t prove it isn’t other than “so and so says differently” which is also an opinion lol. Can you statistically or measurably prove otherwise? No.. you cannot. Don’t be an Artman and claim opinions are facts. They aren’t. It’s literally a “back in my day” argument. It’s completely baseless.

The league itself acknowledged that they changed the rules to limit the physicality and create a more open, free-flowing Offenses so as to increase Scoring... and that's precisely what happened.

So it's not an opinion, it's a fact.

[thedangerouskitchen]

TDK has zero ability to recognize his cognitive bias. Appeal to authority is great when it supports an opinion he likes. It's not valid when it's an opinion he differs with. You can't make this stuff up.

Why does the league itself (along with numerous current players/coaches) agree with TDK?

Do you even know what appeal to authority means? Sometimes I think you are completely brain dead. You love to use it with opinions you agree with, but dismiss it when it contradicts you. When a player like KG says LeBron is GOAT, that doesn't count. But if he says half the players today couldn't play in "muh day", that does count. What is so funny is that the vast, vast majority of guys today could play in his day, but tons of players from his day couldn't hope to see an NBA roster today.

Stop deflecting.

The league itself acknowledged that they changed the rules to limit the physicality of the game (ie; MAKE IT SOFTER), and create a more open, free-flowing Offensive-oriented game to increase Scoring... and that's precisely what happened.

The only one who is being bain-dead on the issue here is you... and that is a fact.

[ElJorge]

No, actually it's not... if you were around in the 80's-00's it's as clear as the sunrise that Defense today is significantly less physical (ie; softer). But if the eyeball test isn't good enough, all you need to do is read what the league itself said earlier this year, which was echoed by numerous "curent" players and coaches, not to mention boatloads of former players/coaches.

So you got it backwards, actually... claiming Defense today isN't softer is on the level of saying 3-point shooting isn't better today (than it was in the 80's-90's).

Yes… it factually is an opinion. You can’t prove it isn’t other than “so and so says differently” which is also an opinion lol. Can you statistically or measurably prove otherwise? No.. you cannot. Don’t be an Artman and claim opinions are facts. They aren’t. It’s literally a “back in my day” argument. It’s completely baseless.

The league itself acknowledged that they changed the rules to limit the physicality and create a more open, free-flowing Offenses so as to increase Scoring... and that's precisely what happened.

So it's not an opinion, it's a fact.

The rule changes didn’t make everyone better at 3pt shooting, or better passers, or better ball handlers…

Edit: aside from hand checking.. could you expand upon which rule changes were specifically made and how you think they affected the playing style of the league today?

[thedangerouskitchen]

Yes… it factually is an opinion. You can’t prove it isn’t other than “so and so says differently” which is also an opinion lol. Can you statistically or measurably prove otherwise? No.. you cannot. Don’t be an Artman and claim opinions are facts. They aren’t. It’s literally a “back in my day” argument. It’s completely baseless.

The league itself acknowledged that they changed the rules to limit the physicality and create a more open, free-flowing Offenses so as to increase Scoring... and that's precisely what happened.

So it's not an opinion, it's a fact.

The rule changes didn’t make everyone better at 3pt shooting, or better passers, or better ball handlers…

Now THAT is just an opinion... as you cannot find any factual data to back that up, same as you/others claiming you can't substantiate the soft Defense assertion.

Correct???

As for 3-point shooting being superior today because of "stats", the same argument can be used to argue Defense is significantly weaker/softer today, since Scoring is higher than it's been in 50+ years. Plus, when you're playing with significant spacing and significantly less physicality on Defense (again, confirmed by the league itself) it makes it much easier for players to pass, dribble, shoot and score (vs. doing so when the floor is cluttered), which is exactly what the league wanted AND got.

[ElJorge]

“Less physicality” is your answer to what rule changes were made? So basically the magical hand checking rule made players go from prison ball to YMCA ball?

[thedangerouskitchen]

“Less physicality” is your answer to what rule changes were made? So basically the magical hand checking rule made players go from prison ball to YMCA ball?

Why are you, grizz and others completely ignoring the fact that the league itself confirmed what Garnett, Gobert, LeBron and many other "current" players / coaches have said?

Ae you suggesting that they are lying? Ae you saying that they don't know what they're talking about, but you, grizz and others do? Are you saying that they purposely threw their own product under the bus?

[ElJorge]

“Less physicality” is your answer to what rule changes were made? So basically the magical hand checking rule made players go from prison ball to YMCA ball?

Why are you, grizz and others completely ignoring the fact that the league itself confimed what Garnett, Gobert, LeBron and many other "current" players / coaches have said?

Ae you suggesting that they are lying? Ae you saying that they don't know what they're talking about, but you, grizz and others do? Ae you saying that they purposely threw their own product under the bus?

So basically you can’t answer the question and specify what rule changes they’re even referring to? Their word is gospel and that’s that?

[thedangerouskitchen]

“Less physicality” is your answer to what rule changes were made? So basically the magical hand checking rule made players go from prison ball to YMCA ball?

Why are you, grizz and others completely ignoring the fact that the league itself confimed what Garnett, Gobert, LeBron and many other "current" players / coaches have said?

Ae you suggesting that they are lying? Ae you saying that they don't know what they're talking about, but you, grizz and others do? Ae you saying that they purposely threw their own product under the bus?

So basically you can’t answer the question and specify what rule changes they’re even referring to? Their word is gospel and that’s that?

Yes, on this issue their word IS gospel "relative" to yours unless you can refute what the league/players/coaches themselves have confirmed????

Right... I didn't think so.

[ElJorge]

So your answer is to not answer the question? Right… exactly what I figured.

[thedangerouskitchen]

So your answer is to not answer the question? Right… exactly what I figured.

And your answer is to ignore what the people who actually make the rules/control the game say because you/others are afraid to admit the truth about today's NBA.

Gotcha!

[ElJorge]

So your answer is to not answer the question? Right… exactly what I figured.

And your answer is to ignore what the people who actually make the rules/control the game say because you/others are afraid to admit the truth about today's NBA.

Gotcha!

Because it’s an opinion, genius. Again… unless you can verify what changes were made and how they specifically altered the gameplay style. Which you’re desperately trying to avoid answering because you can’t.




Edit: actually… uncle! You win! We’re just going in circles here.

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

There have been no substantive rule changes since 2005-06 when handcheck was materially enforced. That has gone so far out the window, it's not even funny. The enforcement now compared to 2006 is night and day, and every one who watches knows it. The only other one which has helped scoring is reducing the 24 second clock to 14 seconds in certain situations.

[ElJorge]

There have been no substantive rule changes since 2005-06 when handcheck was materially enforced. That has gone so far out the window, it's not even funny. The enforcement now compared to 2006 is night and day, and every one who watches knows it. The only other one which has helped scoring is reducing the 24 second clock to 14 seconds in certain situations.

There are less FTA per game now than at any point in NBA history. So if the refs are trying to enforce a less physical play style it’s not showing up at the charity stripe.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/nba-le ... -by-decade


Edit: link is for FT%… gotta click on the FTA option my bad

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

There have been no substantive rule changes since 2005-06 when handcheck was materially enforced. That has gone so far out the window, it's not even funny. The enforcement now compared to 2006 is night and day, and every one who watches knows it. The only other one which has helped scoring is reducing the 24 second clock to 14 seconds in certain situations.

There are less FTA per game now than at any point in NBA history. So if the refs are trying to enforce a less physical play style it’s not showing up at the charity stripe.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/nba-le ... -by-decade


Edit: link is for FT%… gotta click on the FTA option my bad

Those who think the refs are interpreting the handcheck rules like they did in 2006 are completely out to lunch. It is barely recognizable.

[zombiesonics]

There have been no substantive rule changes since 2005-06 when handcheck was materially enforced. That has gone so far out the window, it's not even funny. The enforcement now compared to 2006 is night and day, and every one who watches knows it. The only other one which has helped scoring is reducing the 24 second clock to 14 seconds in certain situations.

There are less FTA per game now than at any point in NBA history. So if the refs are trying to enforce a less physical play style it’s not showing up at the charity stripe.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/nba-le ... -by-decade


Edit: link is for FT%… gotta click on the FTA option my bad

They cope with this by claiming that the only reason why FTA attempts are down is because of the amount of 3s taken today. At least that’s what they say on RealGM.

The problem with that is that the amount of shots taken in the paint are the same today as there were in the ‘90s. The place on the court where shots don’t exist anymore are from 16-23 feet. So basically, long 2s were eliminated and replaced with 3s. Thus having no effect on FTs.

They really are checkmated.

[thedangerouskitchen]

So your answer is to not answer the question? Right… exactly what I figured.

And your answer is to ignore what the people who actually make the rules/control the game say because you/others are afraid to admit the truth about today's NBA.

Gotcha!

Because it’s an opinion, genius. Again… unless you can verify what changes were made and how they specifically altered the gameplay style. Which you’re desperately trying to avoid answering because you can’t.




Edit: actually… uncle! You win! We’re just going in circles here.

So again... you believe the NBA Commissioner, the NBA VP of Ops, and numerous "current" players and coaches (including LeBron) are wrong YET you have no evidence to refute what these "experts" say?

I suppose if the manufacturer of the car you drive tells you that there is a problem with "ABC" on the vehicle that could lead to devastating consequences if it's not fixed, and as such, there's a recall on said car, you're not going to believe them because your car runs just fine.

Gotcha...

You're right. I do win. Thanks for playing.