Would Bill Russell's game even make it to the NBA in todays game.
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Would Bill Russell's game even make it to the NBA in todays game.
Stars, are you high, or drunk
On a serious note,. With today's game changes the old Bill would be lost in space. Bill would make most teams, not all. Bill would have learned how to ball handle. Have further range, maybe 3 point shooting. He would have evolved. Just like Bobby Orr, Micheal Jordan. Babe Ruth.
On a serious note,. With today's game changes the old Bill would be lost in space. Bill would make most teams, not all. Bill would have learned how to ball handle. Have further range, maybe 3 point shooting. He would have evolved. Just like Bobby Orr, Micheal Jordan. Babe Ruth.
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Re: Would Bill Russell's game even make it to the NBA in todays game.
For his time Bill was not a bad ball handler.
He'd occasionally bring the ball up the court.
He'd occasionally bring the ball up the court.
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Re: Would Bill Russell's game even make it to the NBA in todays game.
Top-tier rebounding and interior/help defense will always be valuable and are (along with pure outside shooting ability) some of the most transportable skills in the game. There's no reason that I can see that he wouldn't be a top rebounder and shot-blocker/interior/help defensive player in 2024 even if you were unfair and simply teleported him into 2024 basketball.
Now, "teleported straight into 2024", his personal scoring would strictly be garbage baskets/offensive rebounds/open lobs, etc...but his passing would be quite reasonable. Ball-handling I'd like to examine more closely, but I suspect it would be "serviceable" at the very least.
He certainly wouldn't have the magnitude of impact he had in the 60s, but that's pretty par for the course for giants of sport that were giants early in a sports tenure. Babe Ruth wouldn't be hitting more homers than entire teams, Jim Thorpe wouldn't be professional level in 25 different sports, etc...
Now, "teleported straight into 2024", his personal scoring would strictly be garbage baskets/offensive rebounds/open lobs, etc...but his passing would be quite reasonable. Ball-handling I'd like to examine more closely, but I suspect it would be "serviceable" at the very least.
He certainly wouldn't have the magnitude of impact he had in the 60s, but that's pretty par for the course for giants of sport that were giants early in a sports tenure. Babe Ruth wouldn't be hitting more homers than entire teams, Jim Thorpe wouldn't be professional level in 25 different sports, etc...
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Re: Would Bill Russell's game even make it to the NBA in todays game.
Depends on who you ask, but I'm sure he'd be fine today. Elite players of their respective eras stood out for a reason. Can't assume someone of his or Wilt's or Nate Thurmond's caliber would simply be too stupid to know how to adjust their games for today. At the very least, Bam Adebayo with more of a winning impact in crunch time.
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Re: Would Bill Russell's game even make it to the NBA in todays game.
Funny how Russell is known as a “rebounder and defender” yet Wilt was a way better rebounder than him.
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Re: Would Bill Russell's game even make it to the NBA in todays game.
"Equivalent" is a much fairer term.zombiesonics wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2024 6:54 pm Funny how Russell is known as a “rebounder and defender” yet Wilt was a way better rebounder than him.
Wilt averaged 18 rebounds/36 minutes and Russell averaged 19.1/36 minutes.
The same degree of difference existed in the playoffs as well.
As is, he only averaged 0.4 more rebounds a game than Russell in the RS, despite playing 3.4 more minutes a game. In the playoffs, Russell averaged 0.4 more rebounds a game outright in fewer minutes/game, and played in the same number of games as Wilt.
For prime rebounding in the playoffs, Wilt from 1960 to 1969 averaged 26.3 rebounds a game in 47.4 minutes. Russell 26.1 a game in 45.5 minutes from 57 through 66.
Nevertheless, that is what the backpicks project on Wilt illustrated pretty clearly: that he WAS a major needle mover worthy of a spot somewhere in the back end of the top 10 all-time. Its just that the *composition* of his contribution (i.e.--he moved the needle largely with defense/rebounding compared to personal scoring) was somewhat different than most casual narratives suggest.
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Re: Would Bill Russell's game even make it to the NBA in todays game.
Facts.zombiesonics wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2024 6:54 pm Funny how Russell is known as a “rebounder and defender” yet Wilt was a way better rebounder than him.
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Re: Would Bill Russell's game even make it to the NBA in todays game.
Anyone saying Wilt was a better rebounder is a moron.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are dumber than that.
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Re: Would Bill Russell's game even make it to the NBA in todays game.
Russell Stanz throw "11 RANGZ" like crazy but hate when Wilt leads Bill in a separate category.
Wilt was absolutely a better rebounder because he had more in his career.
Wilt was absolutely a better rebounder because he had more in his career.
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Re: Would Bill Russell's game even make it to the NBA in todays game.
Russell fans...
"Bill Russell was a better scorer than Wilt!!!"
"Bill Russell was a better scorer than Wilt!!!"
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Re: Would Bill Russell's game even make it to the NBA in todays game.
Hmmm, let's see. Bull Russell had no handles, no outside shot, and he never had to defend the perimeter in his day soooo, according to many on this board he wouldn't even make the G League today.
Last edited by thedangerouskitchen on Tue Mar 19, 2024 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Would Bill Russell's game even make it to the NBA in todays game.
Bill & Wilt are the only two guys in history with career RPG marks over 20 (which will never happen again. Most teams these days barely can get 50) and just 0.44 separate them but we're bitching about one being better than the other c'mon now. Wilt's teams and Bill's were routinely at the top of the league in RPG.
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Re: Would Bill Russell's game even make it to the NBA in todays game.
Wilt holds every meaningful rebounding record there is. Most rebounds, highest RPG, most rebounding titles ever (Wilt has 11 to Russell’s 5). The 7 highest rebounding seasons belong to Wilt.Bush4Ever. wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2024 7:08 pm"Equivalent" is a much fairer term.zombiesonics wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2024 6:54 pm Funny how Russell is known as a “rebounder and defender” yet Wilt was a way better rebounder than him.
Wilt averaged 18 rebounds/36 minutes and Russell averaged 19.1/36 minutes.
The same degree of difference existed in the playoffs as well.
As is, he only averaged 0.4 more rebounds a game than Russell in the RS, despite playing 3.4 more minutes a game. In the playoffs, Russell averaged 0.4 more rebounds a game outright in fewer minutes/game, and played in the same number of games as Wilt.
For prime rebounding in the playoffs, Wilt from 1960 to 1969 averaged 26.3 rebounds a game in 47.4 minutes. Russell 26.1 a game in 45.5 minutes from 57 through 66.
Nevertheless, that is what the backpicks project on Wilt illustrated pretty clearly: that he WAS a major needle mover worthy of a spot somewhere in the back end of the top 10 all-time. Its just that the *composition* of his contribution (i.e.--he moved the needle largely with defense/rebounding compared to personal scoring) was somewhat different than most casual narratives suggest.
Russell has a slightly higher PER 36 than Wilt.
I guess Boban is also better than Tim Duncan, PER 36 and all.
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Re: Would Bill Russell's game even make it to the NBA in todays game.
Was Russell over-rated as a Rebounder?
I could be wrong although I rarely am, so I'm only guessing that if we looked at his individual Rebound Average per year as a percentage of Boston's total Team Rebounds, his ratio wouldn't be any better (maybe even worse) than guys like Rodman, Moses, Lucas, Thurmond, Wilt, Drummond, and prolly a lot more guys I'm forgetting.
Great Rebounder, sure... like dozens of guys throughout history. The best, or even Top 2 all-time?
Hmmm...
Anyone got the numbers so we can see the facts?
I could be wrong although I rarely am, so I'm only guessing that if we looked at his individual Rebound Average per year as a percentage of Boston's total Team Rebounds, his ratio wouldn't be any better (maybe even worse) than guys like Rodman, Moses, Lucas, Thurmond, Wilt, Drummond, and prolly a lot more guys I'm forgetting.
Great Rebounder, sure... like dozens of guys throughout history. The best, or even Top 2 all-time?
Hmmm...
Anyone got the numbers so we can see the facts?
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
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Re: Would Bill Russell's game even make it to the NBA in todays game.
Bush already gave y’all the stats. Wilt played more minutes….thats all. I’ll agree with anyone that says Wilt is the GOAT of playing time. That’s undisputed.
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Re: Would Bill Russell's game even make it to the NBA in todays game.
He is the all time rebounding leader.Robceltsfan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2024 8:05 pm Bush already gave y’all the stats. Wilt played more minutes….thats all. I’ll agree with anyone that says Wilt is the GOAT of playing time. That’s undisputed.
Sure, he played another season but that is not a penalty to Wilt.
Does longevity not matter here? Because it sure seems like it does when one argues for LeBron.
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Re: Would Bill Russell's game even make it to the NBA in todays game.
LeBron fans cherry-pick criteria / made-up stats based on who the players are in question... this lack of consistency across-the-board is why they can't be taken seriously.
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
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Re: Would Bill Russell's game even make it to the NBA in todays game.
All that is a function of playing more minutes per game/total games than Russell. Having more rebounding titles doesn't mean you are extremely distanced from your closest peer. Someone running a 4.50 vs. someone else's 4.52 40 yard dash 10x in a row doesn't imply an extreme difference, even though he would "win" 10 times in a row.zombiesonics wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2024 7:54 pm
Wilt holds every meaningful rebounding record there is. Most rebounds, highest RPG, most rebounding titles ever (Wilt has 11 to Russell’s 5). The 7 highest rebounding seasons belong to Wilt.
Russell has a slightly higher PER 36 than Wilt.
I guess Boban is also better than Tim Duncan, PER 36 and all.
When you compare like-to-like they are pretty equivalent.
Wilt's advantages:
+0.4 a game regular season
-0.4 a game playoffs
-1.1/36 minutes regular season
-1.1/36 minutes playoffs
+0.1 a game NBA Finals
+0.9 a game regular season between first and last MVP
-0.7 /36 minutes regular season between first and last MVP
+0.2 a game playoffs between first and last MVP
-0.8 /36 minutes playoffs between first and last MVP
Wilt had an advantage H2H (even considering the confounding of Russell having to play old against Wilt but not vice versa), but Russell was better versus the rest of the league.
Where's all this great advantage coming from? Wilt made a few more widgets, but he needed 20 minutes of overtime to make them. Russell made slightly fewer widgets, but was more productive during work hours.
In any case it certainly isn't a difference that leads to some grand sweeping difference in narrative between how they would translate to rebounding in 2024. Suffice it to say they would both be at or extremely close to the top.
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Re: Would Bill Russell's game even make it to the NBA in todays game.
Lebron is not the greatest scorer.PhutureDynasty wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2024 8:12 pmHe is the all time rebounding leader.Robceltsfan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2024 8:05 pm Bush already gave y’all the stats. Wilt played more minutes….thats all. I’ll agree with anyone that says Wilt is the GOAT of playing time. That’s undisputed.
Sure, he played another season but that is not a penalty to Wilt.
Does longevity not matter here? Because it sure seems like it does when one argues for LeBron.
Stockton is not the greatest passer.
Pete Rose is not the greatest hitter.
Emmitt Smith is not the greatest rusher.
Wilt is not the greatest rebounder.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are dumber than that.
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