Odogg wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2024 11:22 pm
Kobe should not be lower than Curry.
I don't know about you in particular, but usually the divergence I have with pretty much all Kobe fans (and maybe even a majority of NBA fans) about Kobe centers around peak/prime value (I'm lower than most, but I think reasonable people can differ to some degree), defensive value (the data simply doesn't support the narrative of him being an elite defensive player), and the relative value of Kobe vs. Shaq during the 2000-2002 titles.
I also see Curry as being a level higher than Kobe peak:peak and prime:prime, while also being more transportable, which matters to some degree when a chunk of Kobe's advantage over Curry in some fans eyes is some variant of "more rings".
Random Data Points +/- (82games.com, all scaled to 100 possessions)
2006 Kobe
Team is -7.5 without him, +4.8 with him (+12.3 difference)
2008 Kobe
Team is +2.1 without him, +9.2 with him (+7.1 difference)
2009 Kobe
Team is -0.6 without him, +11.3 with him (+11.9 difference)
2010 Kobe
Team is -3.6 without him, +8.8 with him (+12.4 difference)
2015 Curry
Team is -1.6 without him, +16.4 with him (+18.0 difference)
2016 Curry
Team is -4.2 without him, +18.1 with him (+22.3 difference)
2017 Curry
Team is +0.1 without him, +17.3 with him (+17.2 difference)
2018 Curry
Team is +0.9 without him, +13.5 with him (+12.6 difference)
2022 Curry
Team is +0.2 without him, +9.9 with him (+9.7 difference)
With all the caveats about +/-, the data over the years that most associated with each player run consistently in same direction, with Curry being associated with more dramatic swings AND better outcomes when on-floor, even in situations where Kobe's teammates performed better without Kobe than Steph's without Steph (2008 Kobe vs. all above years for Curry for example).
Kobe has stacked more high-level seasons than Curry, but Curry's seasons are definitely better than Kobe's (best vs. best, 2nd best vs. 2nd best, etc...), Curry has more rings as the best player of a team.
Curry has two rings than are better than any Kobe ring as well (IMO). Note that the preseason odds for the Lakers winning the title in 2009 and 2010 were +350 and +225. For the Warriors in 2015 and 2022 they were +2800 (yes, +2800) and +900. Even the 2016 Warriors had preseason odds of +480.
Curry really does make things so much easier for everyone else, to a degree I don't think the game has seen since the best versions of Shaq (not even Lebron measures up in that aspect IMO), and probably Magic/Bird before that.