LeBron James reaches 40,000 points.

[wailuaFC]

Amazing how Jordan's competitiveness got snuffed out every year he didn't play with Scottie Pippen, to the point he couldn't generate a winning regular season or win a playoff series in five seasons.

Crazy how that works

lol

The only thing that mattered more to Jordan than winning, was winning with Scottie and Phil. He just didn’t want to win unless they were with him. He could have if he wanted to though, and that’s important to remember

[Bush4Ever.]

lol
lmao
rotflmao

[Havlicekstealsit]

Amazing how Jordan's competitiveness got snuffed out every year he didn't play with Scottie Pippen, to the point he couldn't generate a winning regular season or win a playoff series in five seasons.

Crazy how that works

lol

The only thing that mattered more to Jordan than placing bets, was winning with Scottie and Phil. He just didn’t want to win unless they were with him. He could have if he wanted to though, and that’s important to remember

FTFY

[thedangerouskitchen]

Jordan couldn’t. If he was the hyper competitive person that everyone thinks he was, don’t you think he’d want to finish on top of all of the record books, especially scoring? Kelly slater didn’t need to win as many championships as the 2-4 combined, Michael Phelps didn’t need to smash the gold medal record, Jerry rice didn’t need to smash the all time receiving record, but they did because they could. Either Jordan knew he couldn’t do it so he retired early, or he was unable to because he had to quit multiple times, or he just wasn’t the competitor all other greats were. Your choice

No, Jordan didn't "need" to break 'stat' records... plus he was also vocal, stating over and over and over again throughout his entire career that Winning is what matters to him, not stats.

But for the sake of argument, Jordan retired in 1998 roughly 9,000 Points shy of Kareem. That's about 1,800 points per season over a 5-year span. To put in perspective, MJ scored 2,357 points in 1998.

So... you actually believe that Jordan wasn't capable of scoring (on average) 1,800-points per season from 99 - 03 if all that mattered to him was hanging around long enough to break Jabbar's record?

lol... surely you jest AND clearly you don't know what Mike was all about. Chasing stat records definitely was not 'his thing'.

Guys like LeBron "have to" chase records because they weren't good enough to accomplish in 20 years what Mike did in 11 full seasons with the Bulls.

Facts.

Good point, I guess he just didn’t have the competitive fire to go after the all time greats. He didn’t want to win more than Kareem or Russell. He could have if he really wanted to, but he just didn’t want to. He was happy being a rung or two below the greatest winners ever, he just didn’t have the drive to be the best and that’s ok.

Again, Jordan didn't have to chase (career) stats to pad his legacy because when he retired after the 98 season MJ was already (universally and pretty much irrefutably) regarded as the undisputed GOAT.

Also... only one (1) player in the history of the NBA can say he was a greater/better "winner" than Jordan, and that's Russell. Of course when you compare apples-apples you quickly realize that Mike has Russ beat there as well:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=131510&hilit=Winner

[Bush4Ever.]

If you require a top 30 all-time player to simply be > .500 and win some playoff series, you ain't the greatest winner of all time.

Jordan is probably in the vicinity of 10th-15th best winner all-time, when you combine the rings AND his D/C-levels of winning without Scottie Pippen/Phil Jackson, etc...

When it comes to winning without a top 30 player all-time, Jordan literally has fewer winning accomplishments than Trae Young, and that's an objective fact.

[thedangerouskitchen]

If you require a top 30 all-time player to simply be > .500 and win some playoff series, you ain't the greatest winner of all time.

Jordan is probably in the vicinity of 10th-15th best winner all-time, when you combine the rings AND his D/C-levels of winning without Scottie Pippen/Phil Jackson, etc...

When it comes to winning without a top 30 player all-time, Jordan literally has fewer winning accomplishments than Trae Young, and that's an objective fact.

Pippen >>>>>> LeBron

We get it already... quit beating around the bush-league and just say it already, will ya?

[wailuaFC]

No, Jordan didn't "need" to break 'stat' records... plus he was also vocal, stating over and over and over again throughout his entire career that Winning is what matters to him, not stats.

But for the sake of argument, Jordan retired in 1998 roughly 9,000 Points shy of Kareem. That's about 1,800 points per season over a 5-year span. To put in perspective, MJ scored 2,357 points in 1998.

So... you actually believe that Jordan wasn't capable of scoring (on average) 1,800-points per season from 99 - 03 if all that mattered to him was hanging around long enough to break Jabbar's record?

lol... surely you jest AND clearly you don't know what Mike was all about. Chasing stat records definitely was not 'his thing'.

Guys like LeBron "have to" chase records because they weren't good enough to accomplish in 20 years what Mike did in 11 full seasons with the Bulls.

Facts.

Good point, I guess he just didn’t have the competitive fire to go after the all time greats. He didn’t want to win more than Kareem or Russell. He could have if he really wanted to, but he just didn’t want to. He was happy being a rung or two below the greatest winners ever, he just didn’t have the drive to be the best and that’s ok.

Again, Jordan didn't have to chase (career) stats to pad his legacy because when he retired after the 98 season MJ was already (universally and pretty much irrefutably) regarded as the undisputed GOAT.

Also... only one (1) player in the history of the NBA can say he was a greater/better "winner" than Jordan, and that's Russell. Of course when you compare apples-apples you quickly realize that Mike has Russ beat there as well:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=131510&hilit=Winner

And yet, he isn’t the undisputed GOAT. Maybe if he had the drive to accomplish more he would be. Either he only cared about winning with Scottie and Phil, or he was unable to make his case undeniable. Either way, he didn’t do enough. I hope you don’t think I’m talking down on him, he’s tier 1b behind Kareem and lebron, or with Russell in tier 2.

[Bush4Ever.]

Pippen >>>>>> LeBron

We get it already... quit beating around the bush-league and just say it already, will ya?

I didn't think I was being subtle.

The idea that Jordan is the greatest winner in NBA history is completely absurd.

I don't know how much more direct one can be.

lol

[thedangerouskitchen]

Good point, I guess he just didn’t have the competitive fire to go after the all time greats. He didn’t want to win more than Kareem or Russell. He could have if he really wanted to, but he just didn’t want to. He was happy being a rung or two below the greatest winners ever, he just didn’t have the drive to be the best and that’s ok.

Again, Jordan didn't have to chase (career) stats to pad his legacy because when he retired after the 98 season MJ was already (universally and pretty much irrefutably) regarded as the undisputed GOAT.

Also... only one (1) player in the history of the NBA can say he was a greater/better "winner" than Jordan, and that's Russell. Of course when you compare apples-apples you quickly realize that Mike has Russ beat there as well:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=131510&hilit=Winner

And yet, he isn’t the undisputed GOAT. Maybe if he had the drive to accomplish more he would be. Either he only cared about winning with Scottie and Phil, or he was unable to make his case undeniable. Either way, he didn’t do enough. I hope you don’t think I’m talking down on him, he’s tier 1b behind Kareem and lebron, or with Russell in tier 2.

Of course he is... and even most NBA players today feel the same way, nevermind all the players/coaches from years past who still regard MJ as the GOAT.

LeBron has absolutely zero (0) case as the GOAT... Jabbar is the only player in the discussion with Mike, but when you look at the entire body of work/resume/legacy of each player, Jabbar falls short.

LeBron???

Come on.

Jabbar I could force myself to accept if someone could make a compelling argument (which they can't, but still)... but LeBron??? Mr. 4-6 in the Finals, and tree-stump Defense the last 10 years? Sorry, not a chance.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Pippen >>>>>> LeBron

We get it already... quit beating around the bush-league and just say it already, will ya?

I didn't think I was being subtle.

The idea that Jordan is the greatest winner in NBA history is completely absurd.

I don't know how much more direct one can be.

lol

Sure, just going by the "raw numbers" 11 > 6; however when you put it in perspective and do a deep dive into the numbers (which you love doing with all those 'fake stats') the idea isn't absurd at all.

During their Championship seasons it took 24 Playoff series' wins for MJ to get 6 Rings. Russell, on the other hand, got his 11 rings by only having to win 25 Playoff series... so one (1) more Playoff Series win = 5 additional rings. if that doesn't tell you all you need to know about just how much of a cakewalk Russell had (relative to Mike) then you're just being a close-minded Hater.

Also, in terms of dominance Jordan was taken to a Game 7 only 2 times in those 24 series' vs. a whopping 10 Game 7's for Russ in his 25 series! Jordan swept his opponent 9 times, while Russell swept his opponent only twice. Jordan led his teams to greater regular season success as well; record-breaking regular season success. Jordan also won a 3-Peat with just one All-Star teammate, while Russell couldn't win withOut a "minimum" of 3 other HOFERS around him.

It's not absurd at all to assert that MJ's 6 Rings >> Russell's 11.

[wailuaFC]

Again, Jordan didn't have to chase (career) stats to pad his legacy because when he retired after the 98 season MJ was already (universally and pretty much irrefutably) regarded as the undisputed GOAT.

Also... only one (1) player in the history of the NBA can say he was a greater/better "winner" than Jordan, and that's Russell. Of course when you compare apples-apples you quickly realize that Mike has Russ beat there as well:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=131510&hilit=Winner

And yet, he isn’t the undisputed GOAT. Maybe if he had the drive to accomplish more he would be. Either he only cared about winning with Scottie and Phil, or he was unable to make his case undeniable. Either way, he didn’t do enough. I hope you don’t think I’m talking down on him, he’s tier 1b behind Kareem and lebron, or with Russell in tier 2.

Of course he is... and even most NBA players today feel the same way, nevermind all the players/coaches from years past who still regard MJ as the GOAT.

LeBron has absolutely zero (0) case as the GOAT... Jabbar is the only player in the discussion with Mike, but when you look at the entire body of work/resume/legacy of each player, Jabbar falls short.

LeBron???

Come on.

Jabbar I could force myself to accept if someone could make a compelling argument (which they can't, but still)... but LeBron??? Mr. 4-6 in the Finals, and tree-stump Defense the last 10 years? Sorry, not a chance.

I don’t think you have a firm grasp of the English language. You claim Jordan is the undisputed GOAT, but admit not all nba players have them as their goat, you would hear an argument for Kareem, and you post on a board with 20ish? people and I’d guess there would be 3 or 4 different players we have ranked as the GOAT. Idol worship is something you should age out of. Being in the top 4 all time is amazing, don’t let the fact that Jordan isn’t unassailable affect you personally.

[thedangerouskitchen]

And yet, he isn’t the undisputed GOAT. Maybe if he had the drive to accomplish more he would be. Either he only cared about winning with Scottie and Phil, or he was unable to make his case undeniable. Either way, he didn’t do enough. I hope you don’t think I’m talking down on him, he’s tier 1b behind Kareem and lebron, or with Russell in tier 2.

Of course he is... and even most NBA players today feel the same way, nevermind all the players/coaches from years past who still regard MJ as the GOAT.

LeBron has absolutely zero (0) case as the GOAT... Jabbar is the only player in the discussion with Mike, but when you look at the entire body of work/resume/legacy of each player, Jabbar falls short.

LeBron???

Come on.

Jabbar I could force myself to accept if someone could make a compelling argument (which they can't, but still)... but LeBron??? Mr. 4-6 in the Finals, and tree-stump Defense the last 10 years? Sorry, not a chance.

I don’t think you have a firm grasp of the English language. You claim Jordan is the undisputed GOAT, but admit not all nba players have them as their goat, you would hear an argument for Kareem, and you post on a board with 20ish? people and I’d guess there would be 3 or 4 different players we have ranked as the GOAT. Idol worship is something you should age out of. Being in the top 4 all time is amazing, don’t let the fact that Jordan isn’t unassailable affect you personally.

Put it this way, since you want to hang on to Semantics... more people believe Jordan is the GOAT than any other player. Even a solid majority of "current" players (via a recent poll) ranked Mike the best ever, with LeBron a distant second and Jabbar an even further behind 3rd place.

Facts don't lie, and facts > opinions; therefore I don't take it personally because the facts confirm Jordan's legacy as the GOAT... and using facts I'll shred up any argument for any player (other than MJ) as the GOAT.

[Bush4Ever.]

Sure, just going by the "raw numbers" 11 > 6; however when you put it in perspective and do a deep dive into the numbers (which you love doing with all those 'fake stats') the idea isn't absurd at all.

It's not even about ring count, silly, since Jordan's rings are 95 percent or so tied to simply being in the vicinity of Pippen, Phil, and Grant, who ALL won rings apart from Jordan, while Jordan couldn't even win a playoff series without them.

1. Jordan barely elevated a shit team in Chicago his rookie year. Bird, Kareem, Duncan (kinda), etc...all did better. Lebron did better as a kid who had just gotten his drivers license lmao

2. The Bulls were LOADED with all-star talent (Pippen, Grant, BJ Armstrong), and MJ's relative impact on the Bulls was a) two regular season wins, and b) some needed scoring in the playoffs. When *ancient* Larry Bird missed the 1989 season, the Celtics dropped all the way to 42 wins and got immediately stomped out of the playoffs. When Russell left, the Celtics tanked. When Lebron left, the Cavs tanked, etc...

But when Jordan left...the Bulls moved from an A+ team to an A- team. Which illustrates Jordan's *relative* contribution to winning was actually kinda trivial.

3. Jordan had a sub .500 record when he couldn't rely on Pippen and Jackson. Zero playoff series wins. When HE had to do it instead of contributing as part of a super team...he not only didn't win a ring, he didn't even enter the ring lol lol lol

4. Jordan's executive experience illustrates precisely zero leadership and insight into the game of basketball. At least 95 percent of his moves have been overtly negative ones, and he almost single-handidly ruined the franchise.

5. When Jordan's *leadership* was actually on trial in Washington (any he couldn't rely on his individual talent to compensate), he failed miserably and accomplished absolutely nothing of substance, actively destroyed a number one overall pick (Shaq, D-Rob, Kareem were all number one picks...who knows what Kwame might have been if he hadn't been ruined by Jordan's egotism), etc....

It just ain't so man.

Jordan has six good winning seasons of A+ winning, nine seasons of complete winning failure as a player, and a decade+ seasons of completely failure as a basketball mind.

So approximately 6 A+s, and 19 Ds and Fs....that doesn't equal GOAT-winning.

Edit: I just realized Russell has more rings as a coach than Jordan does playoff GAME wins apart from Scottie Pippen lmao lol lol

[Bush4Ever.]

Jordan isn't even a greater winner than Tim Duncan.

A comparison to Russell is completely ridiculous, when he didn't even clearly elevate himself beyond guys on either side of his era like Magic or Duncan.

[thedangerouskitchen]

"The "Greatest Winner Ever" debate has nothing to do with ring count."

Signed,
Some bush-league troll

[PhutureDynasty]

Now 74 points away from 40K.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Now 74 points away from 40K.

And still a LeFraud.

[Shill Jackson]

Jordan had a mental breakdown during the end of his first threepeat.

That's why he quit. He did come back strong, but he absolutely broke and quit.

"Nothing left to prove"....dude wasn't even the consensus best player of all time after 1993, not even in the eyes of boomers and boomer bootlickers.

Pretending he could have put up 40K points is comedy, but believing he could put up 10K assists/rebounds is high comedy.

QUIT or SUSPENDED = Not the GOAT.

How lucky we are all to witness the current, ongoing career of the indisputable LeGOAT!

[Bush4Ever.]

QUIT or SUSPENDED = Not the GOAT.

How lucky we are all to witness the current, ongoing career of the indisputable LeGOAT!

It becomes difficult to use Jordan as a role model.

"Hey kids, take every Tuesday and Friday off because you feel a little stressed...you need some "mental health days""

Yikes. lol

[thedangerouskitchen]

LeFraud is averaging 55 games and only 35 minutes played in his last 6 seasons (ages 34-39) DESPITE giving zero (0) effort on Defense, playing in a zero (0) contact league, getting a full one (1) week off for the AS break, playing faaaaaaar fewer back-to-backs, and minimal 3 games in 4 nights.

This, ladies and gentleman, is today's generation's definition of an Iron Man.