I submit to AG the following facts that suggest MJ's 6 Rings >>> Russell's 11 Rings

[thedangerouskitchen]

NOTE: CLEARLY TDK is speaking about the NBA "only".

[vcsgrizzfan]

Kareem is the premier high school/college winner.

Russell is the premier NBA winner.

Jordan bends the knee to both in terms of winning.

Kareem won 3 out of 3 in college. Bill won 2 out of 3 in college. But, Kareem won at UCLA, already a great college program coached by the legendary John Wooden. Bill won 2 titles at USF, which was below .500 the year before he joined the program. So yes, Kareem is the greatest college winner, but Bill was nipping at his heels.

[vcsgrizzfan]

Nice try, but... next.

No. I gave you straight unvarnished facts. You just don't like them.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Sorry but this is NBA "only" boys... deflection and adding college just confirms your surrender to the facts in the OP.

PS: at including High School. What's next, Championships won at the park league?

[vcsgrizzfan]

Sorry but this is NBA "only" boys... deflection and adding college just confirms your surrender to the facts in the OP.

PS: at including High School. What's next, Championships won at the park league?

You are talking about who is the greatest winner. Bill trumps MJ in the NBA, Bill trumps MJ at college and Bill trumps MJ in high school. Bill trumps MJ EVERYWHERE.

[Bush4Ever.]

NOTE: CLEARLY TDK is speaking about the NBA "only".

It's just not so man. Let it go.

Jordan not winning a playoff series without Pippen in five seasons, and not winning a ring without Pippen AND a borderline all-star PF pretty much automatically excludes him from that conversation. Not to mention having a losing record against his chief rivals back in the days of the alpha NBA (Celtics/Pistons) in the playoffs.

He can wear the title of "Best Winner of the 1990s". That's something to be proud of, but don't overreach yourself.

Objectively speaking, Jordan is closer to George Mikan (5 rings, also playing in a limited era) than he is to Russell in the NBA.

[Da Stars.]

Angel picked the Goat of Goats. I put her favorite treats one on Russell the other on MJ. She chose Russell. Fact now, cant get any better than this. Angel say, Russell is the Goat.

[vcsgrizzfan]

NOTE: CLEARLY TDK is speaking about the NBA "only".

It's just not so man. Let it go.

Jordan not winning a playoff series without Pippen in five seasons, and not winning a ring without Pippen AND a borderline all-star PF pretty much automatically excludes him from that conversation. Not to mention having a losing record against his chief rivals back in the days of the alpha NBA (Celtics/Pistons) in the playoffs.

He can wear the title of "Best Winner of the 1990s". That's something to be proud of, but don't overreach yourself.

Objectively speaking, Jordan is closer to George Mikan (5 rings, also playing in a limited era) than he is to Russell in the NBA.

[thedangerouskitchen]

NOTE: CLEARLY TDK is speaking about the NBA "only".

It's just not so man. Let it go.

Jordan not winning a playoff series without Pippen in five seasons, and not winning a ring without Pippen AND a borderline all-star PF pretty much automatically excludes him from that conversation. Not to mention having a losing record against his chief rivals back in the days of the alpha NBA (Celtics/Pistons) in the playoffs.

He can wear the title of "Best Winner of the 1990s". That's something to be proud of, but don't overreach yourself.

Objectively speaking, Jordan is closer to George Mikan (5 rings, also playing in a limited era) than he is to Russell in the NBA.

Lots of words = one MASSIVE deflection from the facts presented in the OP.

[Bush4Ever.]

Pointing out that someone couldn't win a playoff series without their sidekick and got gigafucked by his chief rivals in the 80s/early 90s isn't a deflection when the topic is "who is the greatest winner in NBA history".

Jordan is a lock for the top 10 all-time, probably top 5 as well, and even has some arguments to make for the top spot...let that be enough. It's Christmas, FFS.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Another MASSIVE deflection.

C'mon bush, you're better than that... I think.

[Bush4Ever.]

"Who is the prettiest girl in the school...is it Holly?"

"I don't know man, she got acid thrown in her face last year, suffered third-degree burns in the house fire last month...that's kind of tough"

"wtf r u deflecting for?"

[thedangerouskitchen]

"Who is the prettiest girl in the school...is it Holly?"

"I don't know man, she got acid thrown in her face last year, suffered third-degree burns in the house fire last month...that's kind of tough"

"wtf r u deflecting for?"

Get back to me when you can refute one single fact presented in the OP.

Until such time: Jordan's Dynasty >>> Russell's Dynasty, as per the advanced analytics used.

[Bush4Ever.]

Get back to me when you can refute one single fact presented in the OP.

Until such time: Jordan's Dynasty >>> Russell's Dynasty, as per the advanced analytics used.

What are you doing for Christmas this year?

[vcsgrizzfan]

Another MASSIVE deflection.

C'mon bush, you're better than that... I think.

You got completely emasculated in the thread TDK. AGAIN. Pretending you weren't just makes you look like more of a tool.

Imagine trying to determine who the greatest winner in NBA history is and ignoring:

1) One player never having a losing season while the other player had a handful.
2) One player never missing the playoffs while the other missed them twice, albeit in his twilight years.
3) One player winning rings in all but two of his seasons (with one while he was injured in the finals) and ONLY EVER LOSING TO THE ULTIMATE CHAMPION, while the other didn't win rings 9 of his seasons, missed the playoffs twice, lost 7 other times in the playoffs, with only 2 of those being to the ultimate champions.

As usual, you are intellectually dishonest and frankly, dim.

And we both know that if the college records favored MJ, you would include them. They don't, so you don't. I included Russell's high school championships because it is just goofy how rarely he lost. In a span of 18 seasons from a junior in high school till he retired, Bill won the championship an absolutely ridiculous 15 out of 18 times. The guy just didn't lose.

[PhutureDynasty]

Angel picked the Goat of Goats. I put her favorite treats one on Russell the other on MJ. She chose Russell. Fact now, cant get any better than this. Angel say, Russell is the Goat.

Stars out here having spiritual beings pick the GOAT.

If a damn Angel says so, who are we to question?

In all seriousness though in regards to this discussion, I have Russell as a greatest winner than Jordan at the NBA level. I think Russell is the greatest winner in team sports history.

That said, Jordan is higher on my greatest players list but they're in the same tier.

1. LeBron James
2. Michael Jordan
3. Bill Russell
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. Magic Johnson
6. Tim Duncan
7. Larry Bird
8. Wilt Chamberlain
9. Steph Curry
10. Shaquille O'Neal
11. Kobe Bryant
12. Hakeem Olajuwon
13. Kevin Durant

My only "hot take" in there is probably Steph at 9. I think the rest are reasonable at worst in the mind of most basketball fans.