Discuss this shot data (07-08 through 12-13)

[FPL]

Code: Select all

                      %sample  FG%     eFG%    PPS
TRANSITION/FINISHING  19.6%    0.655   0.655   1.39
CUTS/DRIVES            9.0%    0.542   0.542   1.22
CORNER 3               6.5%    0.388   0.581   1.16
PUTBACK                4.0%    0.534   0.534   1.14
NON-CORNER 3          16.8%    0.340   0.510   1.02
MIDRANGE               8.8%    0.410   0.410   0.87
POST                   9.1%    0.396   0.396   0.84
LONG 2                26.3%    0.394   0.394   0.79

[thedangerouskitchen]

62.9% of the shots are taken either from long-range or at the basket.... this suggests a ton of ISO play on the perimeter, where the ball-handler lets the shot clock wind down to 5-7 seconds before he drives / kicks out to a shooter for the aforementioned long-range bomb attempt, which, when missed, leads to long rebounds and fast break run-outs for the opposition (which explains nearly 1 of 5 shot attempts resulting in a dunk / layup).

That would pretty much describe the game today: One dimensional Offenses due to poor fundamentals (not enough ball movement, insufficient player movement w/out the ball; guys not capable of hitting a consistent jumper; almost no post play, etc).

[wailuaFC]

The most striking thing to me is that post up plays are the most inefficient shot according to PPS and eFG%. That is a reflection on the poor post play and lack of fundementals. After that, the fact that the long 2, second worse shot, is the most common shot speaks volume on the bball iq of a lot of the players

[FPL]

BTW, drives and dunks/layups include a lot of transition plays that are hard to isolate. Drives in the half court had the same efficiency as cuts more or less, and dunks/layups are equally effective in transition or in the half court.

[Ghostown42]

Great data.

[Havlicekstealsit]

Drives, layups, and putbacks all result in at least 20% higher made baskets - imagine that. But keep jacking up those long twos and threes. Tuffest era evar.

[jordanzone]

I refuse to partake in basketball discussions on this glorious day we call Superbowl Sunday....I'm sure you understand buddy...

[l3bron]

62.9% of the shots are taken either from long-range or at the basket.... this suggests a ton of ISO play on the perimeter, where the ball-handler lets the shot clock wind down to 5-7 seconds before he drives / kicks out to a shooter for the aforementioned long-range bomb attempt, which, when missed, leads to long rebounds and fast break run-outs for the opposition (which explains nearly 1 of 5 shot attempts resulting in a dunk / layup).

That would pretty much describe the game today: One dimensional Offenses due to poor fundamentals (not enough ball movement, insufficient player movement w/out the ball; guys not capable of hitting a consistent jumper; almost no post play, etc).

The 90's/early 00's had the ugliest basketball the game has ever seen. Everything you described (iso, no ball movement, bad shooting) was a staple of late 90's/early 00's basketball.

Dunks, free throws and 3 pointers are the most efficient shots in the game. Today's offenses and defenses are superior, there's no question.

[thedangerouskitchen]

62.9% of the shots are taken either from long-range or at the basket.... this suggests a ton of ISO play on the perimeter, where the ball-handler lets the shot clock wind down to 5-7 seconds before he drives / kicks out to a shooter for the aforementioned long-range bomb attempt, which, when missed, leads to long rebounds and fast break run-outs for the opposition (which explains nearly 1 of 5 shot attempts resulting in a dunk / layup).

That would pretty much describe the game today: One dimensional Offenses due to poor fundamentals (not enough ball movement, insufficient player movement w/out the ball; guys not capable of hitting a consistent jumper; almost no post play, etc).

The 90's/early 00's had the ugliest basketball the game has ever seen. Everything you described (iso, no ball movement, bad shooting) was a staple of late 90's/early 00's basketball.

Dunks, free throws and 3 pointers are the most efficient shots in the game. Today's offenses and defenses are superior, there's no question.

I am of the opinion that the mid 80's - mid 90's was THE best / most competitive / toughest "era" if you will... the late 90's still has some spillover from that era, but by the 00's (through the present) the NBA has gotten progressively worse.

Also... 3 pointers are among the most "efficient" shots????

Are you nuts???

Today's Offenses stink... the numbers in the OP clearly show this.

[l3bron]

62.9% of the shots are taken either from long-range or at the basket.... this suggests a ton of ISO play on the perimeter, where the ball-handler lets the shot clock wind down to 5-7 seconds before he drives / kicks out to a shooter for the aforementioned long-range bomb attempt, which, when missed, leads to long rebounds and fast break run-outs for the opposition (which explains nearly 1 of 5 shot attempts resulting in a dunk / layup).

That would pretty much describe the game today: One dimensional Offenses due to poor fundamentals (not enough ball movement, insufficient player movement w/out the ball; guys not capable of hitting a consistent jumper; almost no post play, etc).

The 90's/early 00's had the ugliest basketball the game has ever seen. Everything you described (iso, no ball movement, bad shooting) was a staple of late 90's/early 00's basketball.

Dunks, free throws and 3 pointers are the most efficient shots in the game. Today's offenses and defenses are superior, there's no question.

I am of the opinion that the mid 80's - mid 90's was THE best / most competitive / toughest "era" if you will... the late 90's still has some spillover from that era, but by the 00's (through the present) the NBA has gotten progressively worse.

Also... 3 pointers are among the most "efficient" shots????

Are you nuts???

Today's Offenses stink... the numbers in the OP clearly show this.

http://grantland.com/features/the-relia ... rting-nba/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The efficiency of the 3-point shot has been known for awhile.

Nevada Smith, coach of the most innovative pro basketball team you’ve never seen, says almost all the criticism he hears about his chosen strategy comes from older fans and scouts.

“It’s mostly those old-school basketball guys,” says Smith, coach of the D-League’s Rio Grande Valley Vipers

Today's Offenses stink... the numbers in the OP clearly show this.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showth ... p?t=239585" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yeah no. TS% (the best barometer for scoring efficiency) clearly shows that today's offenses are more efficient than ANY year from the 90's aside from 1995-1996. Want to know something cool? Those were also the years the 3 point line was shortened.

[FPL]

So I reparsed the data manually, and managed to group everything into one of the categories. Updated table in OP.

[thedangerouskitchen]

The 90's/early 00's had the ugliest basketball the game has ever seen. Everything you described (iso, no ball movement, bad shooting) was a staple of late 90's/early 00's basketball.

Dunks, free throws and 3 pointers are the most efficient shots in the game. Today's offenses and defenses are superior, there's no question.

I am of the opinion that the mid 80's - mid 90's was THE best / most competitive / toughest "era" if you will... the late 90's still has some spillover from that era, but by the 00's (through the present) the NBA has gotten progressively worse.

Also... 3 pointers are among the most "efficient" shots????

Are you nuts???

Today's Offenses stink... the numbers in the OP clearly show this.

http://grantland.com/features/the-relia ... rting-nba/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The efficiency of the 3-point shot has been known for awhile.

Nevada Smith, coach of the most innovative pro basketball team you’ve never seen, says almost all the criticism he hears about his chosen strategy comes from older fans and scouts.

“It’s mostly those old-school basketball guys,” says Smith, coach of the D-League’s Rio Grande Valley Vipers

Today's Offenses stink... the numbers in the OP clearly show this.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showth ... p?t=239585" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yeah no. TS% (the best barometer for scoring efficiency) clearly shows that today's offenses are more efficient than ANY year from the 90's aside from 1995-1996. Want to know something cool? Those were also the years the 3 point line was shortened.

lol... 3-point shooting may be considered "efficient" nowadays, but only because today's players suck at mid-range shooting and post play. Also, TS% is a terrible stat to use because 3-point shooting wasn't really a part of the game until the late 90's.

[Y2K]

The most striking thing to me is that post up plays are the most inefficient shot according to PPS and eFG%. That is a reflection on the poor post play and lack of fundementals. After that, the fact that the long 2, second worse shot, is the most common shot speaks volume on the bball iq of a lot of the players

I expected the #s to reflect that.

[Y2K]

62.9% of the shots are taken either from long-range or at the basket.... this suggests a ton of ISO play on the perimeter, where the ball-handler lets the shot clock wind down to 5-7 seconds before he drives / kicks out to a shooter for the aforementioned long-range bomb attempt, which, when missed, leads to long rebounds and fast break run-outs for the opposition (which explains nearly 1 of 5 shot attempts resulting in a dunk / layup).

That would pretty much describe the game today: One dimensional Offenses due to poor fundamentals (not enough ball movement, insufficient player movement w/out the ball; guys not capable of hitting a consistent jumper; almost no post play, etc).

The 90's/early 00's had the ugliest basketball the game has ever seen. Everything you described (iso, no ball movement, bad shooting) was a staple of late 90's/early 00's basketball.

Dunks, free throws and 3 pointers are the most efficient shots in the game. Today's offenses and defenses are superior, there's no question.

But it wasn't part of the early-mid 90s, which some ppl fail to grasp. The last 2-3 years of the 90s should not erase the fact that for 6 years, there was some damn good b-ball played throughout the league.

[Y2K]

I am of the opinion that the mid 80's - mid 90's was THE best / most competitive / toughest "era" if you will... the late 90's still has some spillover from that era, but by the 00's (through the present) the NBA has gotten progressively worse.

Also... 3 pointers are among the most "efficient" shots????

Are you nuts???

Today's Offenses stink... the numbers in the OP clearly show this.

http://grantland.com/features/the-relia ... rting-nba/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The efficiency of the 3-point shot has been known for awhile.

Nevada Smith, coach of the most innovative pro basketball team you’ve never seen, says almost all the criticism he hears about his chosen strategy comes from older fans and scouts.

“It’s mostly those old-school basketball guys,” says Smith, coach of the D-League’s Rio Grande Valley Vipers

Today's Offenses stink... the numbers in the OP clearly show this.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showth ... p?t=239585" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yeah no. TS% (the best barometer for scoring efficiency) clearly shows that today's offenses are more efficient than ANY year from the 90's aside from 1995-1996. Want to know something cool? Those were also the years the 3 point line was shortened.

lol... 3-point shooting may be considered "efficient" nowadays, but only because today's players suck at mid-range shooting and post play. Also, TS% is a terrible stat to use because 3-point shooting wasn't really a part of the game until the late 90's.

Look at 2003-04 and compare it to 2004-05 and beyond. What happened around this time?

[Repeat3peat]

I am of the opinion that the mid 80's - mid 90's was THE best / most competitive / toughest "era" if you will... the late 90's still has some spillover from that era, but by the 00's (through the present) the NBA has gotten progressively worse.

Also... 3 pointers are among the most "efficient" shots????

Are you nuts???

Today's Offenses stink... the numbers in the OP clearly show this.

http://grantland.com/features/the-relia ... rting-nba/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The efficiency of the 3-point shot has been known for awhile.

Nevada Smith, coach of the most innovative pro basketball team you’ve never seen, says almost all the criticism he hears about his chosen strategy comes from older fans and scouts.

“It’s mostly those old-school basketball guys,” says Smith, coach of the D-League’s Rio Grande Valley Vipers

Today's Offenses stink... the numbers in the OP clearly show this.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showth ... p?t=239585" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yeah no. TS% (the best barometer for scoring efficiency) clearly shows that today's offenses are more efficient than ANY year from the 90's aside from 1995-1996. Want to know something cool? Those were also the years the 3 point line was shortened.

lol... 3-point shooting may be considered "efficient" nowadays, but only because today's players suck at mid-range shooting and post play. Also, TS% is a terrible stat to use because 3-point shooting wasn't really a part of the game until the late 90's.

It's "considered" efficient because they don't calculate the negative effect off all the extra missed shots and long rebounds going the other way.

[FPL]

One note...this is regular season data (haven't found the csv uploaded for the playoffs yet). In the playoffs, good defenses are going to play you tighter, and are less willing to concede more efficient or easier shots.

This is why you want your offensive anchor to be able to operate out of the post and hit a 15 footer. The long 2 is generally a terrible shot, but if you have a guy who can hit it (Bosh, Dirk, Kobe, David West) you basically can't defend him. If the dude is a good passer too, you're pretty much fucked if you help on him.

[zombiesonics]

Today's defenses are much better.

Zone defenses hamper post play and force teams to take long jumpers.

[Repeat3peat]

Today's defenses are much better.

Zone defenses hamper post play and force teams to take long jumpers.

Lack of elite post skills force "certain" teams/players to take long jumpers....they have been playing zone legally or illegally since MJ's days. It's NEVER been easier for ball handling wings to get to the rim due to the rule changes(def 3 secs etc...) and lack of real big men guarding it.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Today's defenses are much better.

Zone defenses hamper post play and force teams to take long jumpers.

Zone Defense is played, maybe, 10% of the time in the NBA... and even that might be an extremely generous guesstimate. Players today just don't have the post skills, period. Look at freakin' Dwight Howard as a perfect example.