A Father's Day Hypothetical - Kemp for Pippen trade happens (before 94-95 season)

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A Father's Day Hypothetical - Kemp for Pippen trade happens (before 94-95 season)

Post by FPL »

How does history change?

From the Tribune:
Spoiler:
Jordan Pushes Trade

Told His Friend Karl That If Sonics Made The Deal For Pippen, They'd Win Nba Title


July 01, 1994|By Sam Smith, Tribune Pro Basketball Writer.

The Scottie Pippen trade to Seattle may not be dead-in part because Michael Jordan told SuperSonics coach George Karl that Seattle would be the major beneficiary of the deal.

And that could help alter public sentiment in Seattle, where fans apparently had swayed Sonics owner Barry Ackerly to reject the trade.

Sources close to Karl said the Seattle coach, who was a player at North Carolina and a frequent golfing partner of Jordan, spent much of the last several days consulting with friends and associates about the deal and that Jordan told him, "You'll be getting the best of it." He said he thought the deal would assure Seattle a championship next season.

But the widely reported trade-Pippen for Shawn Kemp and Ricky Pierce and a swap of draft picks-would have to be seriously changed to make it work, for salary-cap reasons.

That's because Seattle now has changed directions and is close to trading the No. 11 draft pick, Carlos Rogers, and Pierce to Golden State for Sarunas Marciulionis and Byron Houston.

Pierce was needed in the Pippen deal for salary-cap reasons, but Seattle also would like to deal Kendall Gill and could look to a desperate Bulls team that is sure to continue to entertain offers for Pippen.

Pippen was in seclusion Thursday in Arkansas. His agent, Jimmy Sexton, said Pippen was extremely hurt by the Bulls' obvious attempts to trade him but hadn't decided on any course of action for now.

"Scottie said, `If that's it, that's it,"' related Sexton. "He said, `If that's what they want, fine.' "

Other friends close to Pippen said he was sure he'd be traded now and was preparing for the change.

Pippen's value is not lost on other NBA executives, who are looking at the chance to make a major score with Pippen.

One reason the Sonics may still be interested in dealing is that they believe they can lure Bulls free agent Horace Grant to play with Pippen in a combined deal. That reportedly was Karl's plan, which was vetoed by Ackerly. Seattle also was talking to Sacramento about a Gill-Mitch Richmond trade.

Don't blame Bulls General Manager Jerry Krause this time. The Bulls reportedly did all they could to complete the deal, even though league observers said it would benefit Seattle more right now because Pippen is so superior in ability to Kemp. But the deal would prevent the Bulls from stumbling like former champions Boston, Los Angeles and Detroit.

Kemp is regarded as primarily a Western Conference open-court player who fares badly in half-court play because he has no post-up game and doesn't like physical play-something of a Dominique Wilkins with less overall ability at power forward. But in the right system, the feeling is his game could still develop because he is only 24.

Reportedly, the Bulls were even willing to back off the demand of a swap of draft picks to keep the deal from falling apart, but to no avail.


"I can tell you we never shopped Shawn Kemp since I've been here," said Karl. "But a team did present a trade to us that we did consider. I will not deny that."

One irony is that in the unlikely event Jordan ever decides to return to the Bulls, they would benefit by keeping Pippen. Jordan told Karl he admires Pippen's talent, and Pippen has said he'd enjoy a return to his old role, with Jordan as star and Toni Kukoc as bit player.

That scenario also would be the Bulls' best chance to retain Grant, who, despite his many feuds with Jordan, would like the chance to reclaim former Bulls glories.

But all that seems rather remote, with the Pippen deal off for now.

Meanwhile, Bulls rivals seem to be improving.

The Pacers Thursday finally made the long-rumored trade of Pooh Richardson, Malik Sealy and the draft rights to Eric Piatkowski to the Los Angeles Clippers for point guard Mark Jackson and the rights to Greg Minor. And the Knicks are said to be waiting to take a shot at veteran scorer Chuck Person, who is expected to be set free by the Minnesota Timberwolves.

The Bucks made a minor deal, Blue Edwards for Boston's Ed Pinckney, and are expected to sign Croatian Stojko Vrankovic away from the Bulls, who have been pursuing the 7-foot-2-inch center.

And the Bulls' longest summer is only beginning.
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Re: A Father's Day Hypothetical - Kemp for Pippen trade happens (before 94-95 season)

Post by LNS »

So Pippen would’ve teamed up with Payton? I don’t think a Pippen + Payton combo wins any titles, and I also don’t think Jordan + Kemp wins any titles.

So who were the other contenders during that timeframe?
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Re: A Father's Day Hypothetical - Kemp for Pippen trade happens (before 94-95 season)

Post by somberbostonian »

I'll admit I saw Kemp and Father's Day in the thread title and cracked up just a bit.
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Re: A Father's Day Hypothetical - Kemp for Pippen trade happens (before 94-95 season)

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LNS wrote:So Pippen would’ve teamed up with Payton? I don’t think a Pippen + Payton combo wins any titles, and I also don’t think Jordan + Kemp wins any titles.

So who were the other contenders during that timeframe?
Other than the Bulls and Sonics

East:
Magic - Made the Finals in the East in 95 (beating the Bulls), lost in ECF to Bulls (sweep, though without Grant after game 1) in 96, then Shaq left and Penny fell apart
Pacers - Lost to the Magic in 7 in 95 in the ECF, then a first round exit and missed playoffs before taking the 98 Bulls to 7 in the ECF
Knicks - 95 was Riley's last season, he left after losing to the Pacers in 7 in 95, they'd lose to the Bulls, Pacers, Heat in the second round the next three years before making the Finals

West:
Jazz - Lost to Houston in the first round in an upset, lost the WCF in 7 to Seattle the next year, then made two Finals (where they'd lose to the Bulls)
Rockets - Won in 95, swept by Sonics in 96 (they also lost in 7 to the Sonics in 93; Kemp and the pseudo-zone they played was tough, since they'd double/triple Hakeem and make role players beat them), and then they bring a washed up Barkley on board (to lose in the WCF vs the Jazz)
Spurs - Lost in WCF to Rockets in 95, then in 96 lost to Jazz in second round, then Robinson gets hurt
Suns - Won a ton of games, but KJ was done at this point as a game-changer, though they got Kidd in 94-95 (before trading him midseason two years later)

The later you get, the more teams are relevant I guess. Lakers with Shaq were good, but the Jazz matchup was tough. Twin Towers Spurs. Zo anchored some great Heat teams.
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Re: A Father's Day Hypothetical - Kemp for Pippen trade happens (before 94-95 season)

Post by FPL »

I think:

• MJ goes to the Knicks (he was rumored to at different points in his career anyway)
• Sonics get better, but are worse in the Rockets matchup

96 Finals could go different ways. I think it's most likely either Rockets vs Magic round 2, or Jazz vs Knicks with MJ
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Re: A Father's Day Hypothetical - Kemp for Pippen trade happens (before 94-95 season)

Post by Y2K »

Michael Jordan stays retired through the 1994-95 season. Maybe he stays retired for good because the Bulls were not a good team at that point.
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Re: A Father's Day Hypothetical - Kemp for Pippen trade happens (before 94-95 season)

Post by Da Stars. »

Y2K wrote:Michael Jordan stays retired through the 1994-95 season. Maybe he stays retired for good because the Bulls were not a good team at that point.
And why did MJ come out of retirement?
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Re: A Father's Day Hypothetical - Kemp for Pippen trade happens (before 94-95 season)

Post by Y2K »

Da Stars. wrote:
Y2K wrote:Michael Jordan stays retired through the 1994-95 season. Maybe he stays retired for good because the Bulls were not a good team at that point.
And why did MJ come out of retirement?
During the baseball strike he started playing pick up games with Pip and the team at the Berto Center. Having Pip in Chicago still was one of the main reasons why he returned. He missed the comradery.
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Re: A Father's Day Hypothetical - Kemp for Pippen trade happens (before 94-95 season)

Post by Da Stars. »

Y2K wrote:
Da Stars. wrote:
Y2K wrote:Michael Jordan stays retired through the 1994-95 season. Maybe he stays retired for good because the Bulls were not a good team at that point.
And why did MJ come out of retirement?
During the baseball strike he started playing pick up games with Pip and the team at the Berto Center. Having Pip in Chicago still was one of the main reasons why he returned. He missed the comradery.
I knew that myself. You passed the test with an AAAAA. And my burrito's were better. I need next time to add more chili powder.
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Re: A Father's Day Hypothetical - Kemp for Pippen trade happens (before 94-95 season)

Post by LNS »

Da Stars. wrote:
Y2K wrote:
Da Stars. wrote:
And why did MJ come out of retirement?
During the baseball strike he started playing pick up games with Pip and the team at the Berto Center. Having Pip in Chicago still was one of the main reasons why he returned. He missed the comradery.
I knew that myself. You passed the test with an AAAAA. And my burrito's were better. I need next time to add more chili powder.

Lol nope
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Re: A Father's Day Hypothetical - Kemp for Pippen trade happens (before 94-95 season)

Post by AtiliusRegulus »

Pippen Jordan Payton = instant championships
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Re: A Father's Day Hypothetical - Kemp for Pippen trade happens (before 94-95 season)

Post by Da Stars. »

LNS wrote:
Da Stars. wrote:
Y2K wrote: During the baseball strike he started playing pick up games with Pip and the team at the Berto Center. Having Pip in Chicago still was one of the main reasons why he returned. He missed the comradery.
I knew that myself. You passed the test with an AAAAA. And my burrito's were better. I need next time to add more chili powder.

Lol nope
Shut the fuck up. I brought up that fact several times in the past. Dumb ass.
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Re: A Father's Day Hypothetical - Kemp for Pippen trade happens (before 94-95 season)

Post by LNS »

Triggered

:mjlaugh:
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Re: A Father's Day Hypothetical - Kemp for Pippen trade happens (before 94-95 season)

Post by Da Stars. »

LNS wrote:Triggered

:mjlaugh:
Not yet boy.
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