CleveTown[TRADE MARK SIGN] wrote:
you are calling every man in the Bible a liar--men who went to their graves defending Jesus and what they saw and eye-witnessed.
No man dies for something they KNOW to be a lie.
Some men may die *thinking* a lie is the truth (stupid terrorists and the Muslim religion is case in point of that). But NO man will die for something they KNOW to be a lie unless they had a death wish, and to my knowledge that is NOT human nature.
Had Jesus not done these things: death on the cross, resurrection, miracles, professing to be God in flesh, etc., then the 12 disciples would not have died proclaiming the lies. They would have said, "yeah, you're right I'm making it up" to preserve their life. Then they would have lived. But these men went to their graves because they died for what they saw and felt convicted enough to tell the world even if it meant giving up their lives to do so.
The proof is there, again, you have to be a buffoon to not believe it. You believe the eye witness stories of Abe Lincoln getting killed and you believe it at face value. But not what these men died proclaiming?
That's on you.
Two questions 1) Where in the Bible does Jesus say, " I am God"? 2) If Jesus was Jewish, then why are you not Jewish?
1) "Have I been such a long time with you,” returned Jesus, “without your really knowing me, Philip? The man who has seen me has seen the Father” (John 14:9).
In other words, Jesus was saying: “Philip, even you don’t believe in my fairytale?”
ALSO:
My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.” 31 At this, the Jews again picked up stones to stone Him.…
Where was his father when they were hanging him like a picture?
2) I am a Christian, which means follower of Christ. I do not adhere to the Jewish faith, it is a dead faith, they are still looking for their messiah, but He has already came and died for them.
You are a Jew Pagan. The worse kind of non-believer
LookAway wrote:
What does the opposition say in response to that charge?
I can reference Jesus and Pontius Pilot too, but that doesn’t mean I know any better. It could have just be a story that was passed down
I'm interested in the arguments and counter-arguments by experts.
I doubt very much the academic response to those charges among historians is "nah nah nah nah, he/they weren't lying".
A sign of someone well-versed in content is their ability to understand and state arguments from both sides of an issue.
Right now, I can't do that on the topic of a historical Jesus.
In 2000 years, will they say Ronald McDonald was the Messiah, after all he fed over 1B people?
LookAway wrote:
Two questions 1) Where in the Bible does Jesus say, " I am God"? 2) If Jesus was Jewish, then why are you not Jewish?
1) "Have I been such a long time with you,” returned Jesus, “without your really knowing me, Philip? The man who has seen me has seen the Father” (John 14:9).
In other words, Jesus was saying: “Philip, even you don’t believe in my fairytale?”
ALSO:
My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.” 31 At this, the Jews again picked up stones to stone Him.…
Where was his father when they were hanging him like a picture?
2) I am a Christian, which means follower of Christ. I do not adhere to the Jewish faith, it is a dead faith, they are still looking for their messiah, but He has already came and died for them.
You are a Jew Pagan. The worse kind of non-believer
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
i dont think you know what a Jew or a pagan actually is
October 16th, 2020. Thank you Pastor John (P)
January 7th. (D)
CleveTown[TRADE MARK SIGN] wrote:
1) "Have I been such a long time with you,” returned Jesus, “without your really knowing me, Philip? The man who has seen me has seen the Father” (John 14:9).
In other words, Jesus was saying: “Philip, even you don’t believe in my fairytale?”
ALSO:
My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.” 31 At this, the Jews again picked up stones to stone Him.…
Where was his father when they were hanging him like a picture?
2) I am a Christian, which means follower of Christ. I do not adhere to the Jewish faith, it is a dead faith, they are still looking for their messiah, but He has already came and died for them.
You are a Jew Pagan. The worse kind of non-believer
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
i dont think you know what a Jew or a pagan actually is
I think you have only been told and parroted what it is. You have no real reality on Paganism or Judaism
LookAway wrote:
What does the opposition say in response to that charge?
I can reference Jesus and Pontius Pilot too, but that doesn’t mean I know any better. It could have just be a story that was passed down
I'm interested in the arguments and counter-arguments by experts.
I doubt very much the academic response to those charges among historians is "nah nah nah nah, he/they weren't lying".
A sign of someone well-versed in content is their ability to understand and state arguments from both sides of an issue.
Right now, I can't do that on the topic of a historical Jesus.
In 2000 years, will they say Ronald McDonald was the Messiah, after all he fed over 1B people?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
so dumb. when the argument turns into nonsense like this or the other person mentions a Spaghetti Flying Monster, Ronald McDonald, Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy, you know you've won.
October 16th, 2020. Thank you Pastor John (P)
January 7th. (D)
Bush4Ever35 wrote:
I'm interested in the arguments and counter-arguments by experts.
I doubt very much the academic response to those charges among historians is "nah nah nah nah, he/they weren't lying".
A sign of someone well-versed in content is their ability to understand and state arguments from both sides of an issue.
Right now, I can't do that on the topic of a historical Jesus.
In 2000 years, will they say Ronald McDonald was the Messiah, after all he fed over 1B people?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
so dumb. when the argument turns into nonsense like this or the other person mentions a Spaghetti Flying Monster, Ronald McDonald, Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy, or Jesus you know you've won.
LookAway wrote:
1) Jesus was a Jew so despite the fact that others Jews found him to be lacking, you think they are wrong. Have you asked yourself what they saw that you don’t? Jews are historically very good at two things: A) Lying B) Being whiny bitches. Thems are the facts
2) Based on those quotes, he could mean we are all sons of God, so what makes him special?
1) What does it matter that Jesus was a Jew? NONE. Jews found him lacking, so what? They were beguiled by Satan. They did not believe His claim to be their messiah just like the old testament taught. They are wrong.
2)Jesus said He and the Father are one. He also said when you see me you see the father. There's no mistaking that or taking it out of context. I cannot say when you see me you see the father or me and the God are one.
So people in his day saw him as a liar but 2000 years later he should be believed? By what metric are you measuring his reliability?
Him being Jew matters because that was the God he worshipped, yet that is not the God you worship. It seems you are picking the parts of his religion you like and skipping the rest
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The Jews saw him as a teacher, not the Messiah. They messed up. the eye witness accounts are what I use to measure the reliability. the MANY eye witnesses.
October 16th, 2020. Thank you Pastor John (P)
January 7th. (D)
LookAway wrote:
What does the opposition say in response to that charge?
I can reference Jesus and Pontius Pilot too, but that doesn’t mean I know any better. It could have just be a story that was passed down
I'm interested in the arguments and counter-arguments by experts.
I doubt very much the academic response to those charges among historians is "nah nah nah nah, he/they weren't lying".
A sign of someone well-versed in content is their ability to understand and state arguments from both sides of an issue.
Right now, I can't do that on the topic of a historical Jesus.
In 2000 years, will they say Ronald McDonald was the Messiah, after all he fed over 1B people?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Great Point! lol! Imagine, had Ronald McDonald been born 2k years ago, his legend would be huge today! With every person hearing the legend adding to it, like with every other 'god' story, there'd be thousands of different denominations today all claiming that their "miracles" and version of the legend are the only true one!! Their 'god' (Ronald McDonald) is a loving god, but he will send you to HELL if you don't blindly believe!!
Praise be the MTN!!!
I would rather DIE Standing on my Feet, than Live Life on my Knees!!
Bush4Ever35 wrote:
I'm interested in the arguments and counter-arguments by experts.
I doubt very much the academic response to those charges among historians is "nah nah nah nah, he/they weren't lying".
A sign of someone well-versed in content is their ability to understand and state arguments from both sides of an issue.
Right now, I can't do that on the topic of a historical Jesus.
In 2000 years, will they say Ronald McDonald was the Messiah, after all he fed over 1B people?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Great Point! lol! Imagine, had Ronald McDonald been born 2k years ago, his legend would be huge today! With every person hearing the legend adding to it, like with every other 'god' story, there'd be thousands of different denominations today all claiming that their "miracles" and version of the legend are the only true one!! Their 'god' (Ronald McDonald) is a loving god, but he will send you to HELL if you don't blindly believe!!
Praise be the MTN!!!
As always you crush Cleve in these religious threads
CleveTown[TRADE MARK SIGN] wrote:
1) What does it matter that Jesus was a Jew? NONE. Jews found him lacking, so what? They were beguiled by Satan. They did not believe His claim to be their messiah just like the old testament taught. They are wrong.
2)Jesus said He and the Father are one. He also said when you see me you see the father. There's no mistaking that or taking it out of context. I cannot say when you see me you see the father or me and the God are one.
So people in his day saw him as a liar but 2000 years later he should be believed? By what metric are you measuring his reliability?
Him being Jew matters because that was the God he worshipped, yet that is not the God you worship. It seems you are picking the parts of his religion you like and skipping the rest
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The Jews saw him as a teacher, not the Messiah. They messed up. the eye witness accounts are what I use to measure the reliability. the MANY eye witnesses.
They saw him as a charlatan so he was nailed to the cross like the other convicted criminals
FPL wrote:lol I think I look like a pretty standard white guy. Honestly, I'm a bit surprised people hadn't seen me before. My old avy on ESPN was a pic of my face.
avatar.jpg
Maybe I'll put up a current pic as my avy for a while
EDIT: Actually I guess it looks kind of dumb on a board full of men. Uploaded for posterity
LookAway wrote:
What does the opposition say in response to that charge?
I can reference Jesus and Pontius Pilot too, but that doesn’t mean I know any better. It could have just be a story that was passed down
I'm interested in the arguments and counter-arguments by experts.
I doubt very much the academic response to those charges among historians is "nah nah nah nah, he/they weren't lying".
A sign of someone well-versed in content is their ability to understand and state arguments from both sides of an issue.
Right now, I can't do that on the topic of a historical Jesus.
In 2000 years, will they say Ronald McDonald was the Messiah, after all he fed over 1B people?
