Backpick all time rankings..

[AlaskaHawks]

So ROB BTFO?

Or Griff BTFO?

[Y2K]

What's interesting is, the eye test was a big part of what ElGee used to evaluate players. He watched hundreds of games, and graded both defense (scoring errors/exceptional plays) and passing (measuring good/bad passes per 100; as an aside, he said in his Kobe writeup that Bryant grades out as a better passer than Jordan).

It's obvious analytics need to be combined with traditional scouting (and a rewind button with lots and lots of time of *focused* scouting on *particular* things within possession) if you want to be super-serious. Any analyst worth their salt in their respective fields does some variant of qualitative/quantitative analysis. With regards to the eye test, there are simply too many moving parts in too many possessions in too many games to hold all the information in your head in single viewings. Especially casual viewings the way most people watch sports.

But 95 percent of internet people who invoke the eye test do so because the squishy and more subjective nature of the eye test is significantly more generous to shitty arguments/positions and less open to strong attacks.

The best arguments look even better under a tighter microscope with better methodology.

But with an ultra loose microscope, great arguments and bad arguments are less distinguishable.

In my pre-parenthood days, I would watch certain games of different players over and over and over. Merely watching the film is not enough because there are too many moving parts that makes taking accurate mental notes for a large analysis virtually impossible.

What I would do is first look at the box scores and whatnot and then apply them within the game situations that they occur.

[Sudanese Sensation]

If Griff e-mailed this thread to Kobe and Kobe read it do you think he would have lunch with Griff ?

[vcsgrizzfan]

So ROB BTFO?

Or Griff BTFO?

You can't possibly really need to ask. Griff should never get involved in discussions with the smart kids. It never ends well for him. His one trick pony needs to be taken to the back forty and shot between the eyes.

[LNS]

So ROB BTFO?

Or Griff BTFO?

[Lamelo_Ball]

So ROB BTFO?

Or Griff BTFO?

my goal in this thread was to

a) derail it ( many people questioning/failing to defend the process )

b) cause melt downs ( see rob and bush )

c) create chaos and doubt ( sudanese/FPL )

d) talk about kobe because i love doing it ( check )

e) interject a trolling narrative that has some kind of legitimacy because half truths drive traffic

f) have golden oldies come flying in that otherwise wouldn't have to interject their usual rehashed perplexities even with the motive and agenda as clear as day ( grizz and others )



i think i won .. and so did AG's stock holders ... this thread has turned out twice as many pages as it should have over the last week because of me



and btw... this list actually is garbage and my top 10 career and eye test players are both far more impressive.. why? because unlike backpick i'm actually consistent

[Sudanese Sensation]

So ROB BTFO?

Or Griff BTFO?

my goal in this thread was to

a) derail it ( many people questioning/failing to defend the process )

b) cause melt downs ( see rob and bush )

c) create chaos and doubt ( sudanese/FPL )

d) talk about kobe because i love doing it ( check )

e) interject a trolling narrative that has some kind of legitimacy because half truths drive traffic

f) have golden oldies come flying in that otherwise wouldn't have to interject their usual rehashed perplexities even with the motive and agenda as clear as day ( grizz and others )



i think i won .. and so did AG's stock holders ... this thread has turned out twice as many pages as it should have over the last week because of me



and btw... this list actually is garbage and my top 10 career and eye test players are both far more impressive.. why? because unlike backpick i'm actually consistent

Where did I express confusion and doubt ?


Thank you in advance.

[LNS]

I do agree that this list is puke

[Bush4Ever35]

Griff imagining people melting down in the face of his "amazing trolling" is really strange.

I guess when you lack purpose and accomplishment in life and don't get laid, you manufacture any victory in life you can get.

In terms of people bitching about the list, 95 percent of the complaints boil down to:

1. I don't understand the actual goals and methodology of the study
2. I'm simply not that smart and can't absorb/process the data, so to protect my ego I'm going to say it's absurd.
3. My favorite player is lower than I wanted....waaaaaaahhhhhhhhh

and btw... this list actually is garbage and my top 10 career and eye test players are both far more impressive.. why? because unlike backpick i'm actually consistent

He's consistent as well, you are just too stupid and obstinate to actually absorb what he is saying and doing.

"Consistency" is necessary but not sufficient for measurement (hint: you can be consistent...but consistently off the mark).

Great measures are reliable (roughly the same idea as consistency) *AND* valid.

[Lamelo_Ball]

Griff imagining people melting down in the face of his "amazing trolling" is really strange.

I guess when you lack purpose and accomplishment in life and don't get laid, you manufacture any victory in life you can get.

In terms of people bitching about the list, 95 percent of the complaints boil down to:

1. I don't understand the actual goals and methodology of the study
2. I'm simply not that smart and can't absorb/process the data, so to protect my ego I'm going to say it's absurd.
3. My favorite player is lower than I wanted....waaaaaaahhhhhhhhh

and btw... this list actually is garbage and my top 10 career and eye test players are both far more impressive.. why? because unlike backpick i'm actually consistent

He's consistent as well, you are just too stupid and obstinate to actually absorb what he is saying and doing.

"Consistency" is necessary but not sufficient for measurement (hint: you can be consistent...but consistently off the mark).

Great measures are reliable (roughly the same idea as consistency) *AND* valid.

[Lamelo_Ball]

I do agree that this list is puke

seriously

anyone putting any faith into a list that has product of john stockton Karl failman malone mr baby rapist 0-3 finals over kobe bryant is probably someone that shouldn't be talking sports in general let alone basketball seriously

[Lamelo_Ball]

i'm so much better than kobe...... that i joined his ass in LA to prove it!

edit* wtf i just noticed malones wearing bitch panties ... you can see the lining LOL

[elmouse03]

Duncan at 7.

[Sudanese Sensation]

Backpicks GOAT: #7 Tim Duncan

[thedangerouskitchen]

After this is over, we should do a thread where everybody lists their top x players of all-time, and lists what they value in players.

however to make something different for a change... if i had to throw 10 names out there just based on the eye test with no stats/accomplishments/accolades as part of my judgement. then it would be


#1 - Kobe Bryant
#2 - Michael Jordan
#3 - Larry Bird
#4 - Hakeem Olajuwon
#5 - John Stockton
#6 - Kevin Garnett
#7 - Jerry West
#8 - Rick Barry
#9 - Kevin Durant
#10 - Dirk Nowitzki


these are probably the 10 most talented guys i've ever seen play basketball

You were doing just fine until that nonsense.

[Bush4Ever35]

I was surprised to see the numbers/scouting come back that Duncan was a mediocre passer.

I knew he was early in his career, but I was under the impression he got much better.

Other than that, basically what I expected out of the Duncan report.

Also, nice to see him rank Duncan over KG by a hair, but both a half-step above Dirk, since that's approximately how I've thought about it over the years.

[Sudanese Sensation]

After this is over, we should do a thread where everybody lists their top x players of all-time, and lists what they value in players.

however to make something different for a change... if i had to throw 10 names out there just based on the eye test with no stats/accomplishments/accolades as part of my judgement. then it would be


#1 - Kobe Bryant
#2 - Michael Jordan
#3 - Larry Bird
#4 - Hakeem Olajuwon
#5 - John Stockton
#6 - Kevin Garnett
#7 - Jerry West
#8 - Rick Barry
#9 - Kevin Durant
#10 - Dirk Nowitzki


these are probably the 10 most talented guys i've ever seen play basketball

You were doing just fine until that nonsense.

[Sudanese Sensation]

1 Jordan
2 Kareem
3 Russell
4 James
5 Johnson
6 Chamberlain
7 O'Neal
8 Duncan
9 Bryant
10 Olajuwon

Based on singular accomplishments, team accomplishments, peak value, career value, and lift.

[Sudanese Sensation]

I was surprised to see the numbers/scouting come back that Duncan was a mediocre passer.

I knew he was early in his career, but I was under the impression he got much better.

Other than that, basically what I expected out of the Duncan report.

Also, nice to see him rank Duncan over KG by a hair, but both a half-step above Dirk, since that's approximately how I've thought about it over the years.

I will be interesting to see him analyze Shaq's defense, especially with him rated so high.

[Lamelo_Ball]

After this is over, we should do a thread where everybody lists their top x players of all-time, and lists what they value in players.

however to make something different for a change... if i had to throw 10 names out there just based on the eye test with no stats/accomplishments/accolades as part of my judgement. then it would be


#1 - Kobe Bryant
#2 - Michael Jordan
#3 - Larry Bird
#4 - Hakeem Olajuwon
#5 - John Stockton
#6 - Kevin Garnett
#7 - Jerry West
#8 - Rick Barry
#9 - Kevin Durant
#10 - Dirk Nowitzki


these are probably the 10 most talented guys i've ever seen play basketball

You were doing just fine until that nonsense.

i have jordan #1 based on careers



i have kobe #1 based on the eye test. kobe just did more and was more deadly at his best

jordan was the better 5 on 5 player for his career. but not the better 1 on 1 player. even he admitted kobe would beat him cause he knows all his moves and added some ontop.


its not even a comparison. kobe got way hotter at his hottest. 62 in 3 quarters vs dallas... jordan never scored more than 61.... through REGULATION... lol


jordans the goat. but the best individual talent i've ever seen at his best is kobe


this guy

phpBB [video]

jordans 2nd on my list. hes basically kobe from 15 feet in