Bush4Ever35 wrote:Griff is needy for attention in this thread.
Pretty sad.
Although it seems to be two days in a row he got up before noon, so that's a positive sign.
When you have lemons, make lemonade.
If LeBron "loses points" for winning championships on good teams shouldn't players like Malone, Barkley, and Garnett get "extra points " for playing spectacularly while not winning championships on bad teams ?
Bush4Ever35 wrote:Griff is needy for attention in this thread.
Pretty sad.
Although it seems to be two days in a row he got up before noon, so that's a positive sign.
When you have lemons, make lemonade.
If LeBron "loses points" for winning championships on good teams shouldn't players like Malone, Barkley, and Garnett get "extra points " for playing spectacularly while not winning championships on bad teams ?
In the most theoretical sense, if I had perfect data, all the time in the world to analyze it with the best statistical tools I have, all the time to watch tape, etc...the general evaluative question would be "how much did this player increase his teams chances at winning games, holding everything else constant".
It's sort of like coaching. I'm more impressed by a coach who wins 47 games with "40 win talent" than I would be by a coach that wins 55 games with "55 win talent" or 65 games with "67 win talent".
Bush4Ever35 wrote:Griff is needy for attention in this thread.
Pretty sad.
Although it seems to be two days in a row he got up before noon, so that's a positive sign.
When you have lemons, make lemonade.
If LeBron "loses points" for winning championships on good teams shouldn't players like Malone, Barkley, and Garnett get "extra points " for playing spectacularly while not winning championships on bad teams ?
Griff is not interested in a real debate. He never is. He's 100% emotionally invested in anything pro Kobe and anything anti LeBron. Reason has never been part of the discussion with him. It's purely emotional. He's as invested in Kobe as TDK and Master Spade are in MJ and their takes are often eerily similar as a result.
Next pick is Monday. I'm going to guess its KG. I think it's between him, Shaq and Hakeem. I think Duncan's longevity advantage puts him above those other 3, and I think Russell, KAJ, MJ, LeBron have done enough to separate themselves from the other 3.
Lamelo_Ball wrote:grizz really wants my attention badly... he PM'd me then somehow deleted it before i could read whatever it was
jokes on him though cause i wouldn't have clicked it lol
Actually the joke is on you. I knew you wouldn't be able to resist commenting. I own your soul. If you had me on ignore as you claimed, there would not have been a PM in your inbox. I used that to avoid PMs from Artie when he was on his last hiatus. You lose.
Bush4Ever35 wrote:Griff is needy for attention in this thread.
Pretty sad.
Although it seems to be two days in a row he got up before noon, so that's a positive sign.
When you have lemons, make lemonade.
If LeBron "loses points" for winning championships on good teams shouldn't players like Malone, Barkley, and Garnett get "extra points " for playing spectacularly while not winning championships on bad teams ?
you must know the difference between ring chasing/colluding and just winning with another great player
if you end up together naturally then its ok
usually no more than 2 prime future hall of famers at a time though since the expansion era
so not only was it unfair levels of superstar talent. it was fraudulently manufactured
what lebron did was unforgivable.. it began the banana boat era... nobody cares about competition or feuds anymore. being "comfortable" and stress free is now whats most important to these guys.
durant doesn't care so much about winning rings as he does just not having to deal with pressure anymore.
lebron also wanted to feel the relief and now he cares more about stats again after winning.
Greatest Individual Playoff Performance in NBA history - 22y.o = 29.4 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 6.1 apg, 15-1 Record, #1 in Win Shares
Bush4Ever35 wrote:Griff is needy for attention in this thread.
Pretty sad.
Although it seems to be two days in a row he got up before noon, so that's a positive sign.
When you have lemons, make lemonade.
If LeBron "loses points" for winning championships on good teams shouldn't players like Malone, Barkley, and Garnett get "extra points " for playing spectacularly while not winning championships on bad teams ?
you must know the difference between ring chasing/colluding and just winning with another great player
if you end up together naturally then its ok
usually no more than 2 prime future hall of famers at a time though since the expansion era
so not only was it unfair levels of superstar talent. it was fraudulently manufactured
what lebron did was unforgivable.. it began the banana boat era... nobody cares about competition or feuds anymore. being "comfortable" and stress free is now whats most important to these guys.
durant doesn't care so much about winning rings as he does just not having to deal with pressure anymore.
lebron also wanted to feel the relief and now he cares more about stats again after winning.
Were Pippen, Olajuwon,Drexler, and Barkley a super team ? That's four Hall Of Famers.
Griff doesn't like Lebron going to a team with real talent because the only way Kobe will do better on a team front compared to Lebron is if Lebron plays on mediocre teams while Kobe plays on very good to great ones.
That's the seed for his opinions on this.
Grant Kobe as much of an artificial advantage as possible, and then simply compare final results.
Sudanese Sensation wrote:
When you have lemons, make lemonade.
If LeBron "loses points" for winning championships on good teams shouldn't players like Malone, Barkley, and Garnett get "extra points " for playing spectacularly while not winning championships on bad teams ?
you must know the difference between ring chasing/colluding and just winning with another great player
if you end up together naturally then its ok
usually no more than 2 prime future hall of famers at a time though since the expansion era
so not only was it unfair levels of superstar talent. it was fraudulently manufactured
what lebron did was unforgivable.. it began the banana boat era... nobody cares about competition or feuds anymore. being "comfortable" and stress free is now whats most important to these guys.
durant doesn't care so much about winning rings as he does just not having to deal with pressure anymore.
lebron also wanted to feel the relief and now he cares more about stats again after winning.
Were Pippen, Olajuwon,Drexler, and Barkley a super team ? That's four Hall Of Famers.
ring chasing is ok as long as you're well past your prime and you don't have any real GOAT aspirations
hakeem needed a wingman. drexler was traded there midseason in 95 when he was 32 years old and already had a long career in portland... not a collusion or ring chasing moment
barkleys however was indeed ring chasing. but he was already 33 and it was his very last relevant year in the league. it was a last ditch effort at a ring
this is very different than 3 guys that all came in the league together colluding to create a big 3 during all their absolute primes
i guarantee if barkley/pippen/hakeem teamed up when they were lebron/wade/boshes ages... theyed have won 4-5 straight titles
Greatest Individual Playoff Performance in NBA history - 22y.o = 29.4 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 6.1 apg, 15-1 Record, #1 in Win Shares
you must know the difference between ring chasing/colluding and just winning with another great player
if you end up together naturally then its ok
usually no more than 2 prime future hall of famers at a time though since the expansion era
so not only was it unfair levels of superstar talent. it was fraudulently manufactured
what lebron did was unforgivable.. it began the banana boat era... nobody cares about competition or feuds anymore. being "comfortable" and stress free is now whats most important to these guys.
durant doesn't care so much about winning rings as he does just not having to deal with pressure anymore.
lebron also wanted to feel the relief and now he cares more about stats again after winning.
Were Pippen, Olajuwon,Drexler, and Barkley a super team ? That's four Hall Of Famers.
ring chasing is ok as long as you're well past your prime and you don't have any real GOAT aspirations
hakeem needed a wingman. drexler was traded there midseason in 95 when he was 32 years old and already had a long career in portland... not a collusion or ring chasing moment
barkleys however was indeed ring chasing. but he was already 33 and it was his very last relevant year in the league. it was a last ditch effort at a ring
this is very different than 3 guys that all came in the league together colluding to create a big 3 during all their absolute primes
i guarantee if barkley/pippen/hakeem teamed up when they were lebron/wade/boshes ages... theyed have won 4-5 straight titles
Were Bob Cousy,Tom Heinsohn,K.C. Jones, Sam Jones,Frank Ramsey and Bill Russell a super team ?
Bush4Ever35 wrote:Griff doesn't like Lebron going to a team with real talent because the only way Kobe will do better on a team front compared to Lebron is if Lebron plays on mediocre teams while Kobe plays on very good to great ones.
That's the seed for his opinions on this.
Grant Kobe as much of an artificial advantage as possible, and then simply compare final results.
Just for fun, give your "guess" on the rankings going forward. I'm going to go with this.
KG
Hakeem
Shaq
Duncan
LeBron
Russell
MJ
KAJ
I think Shaq's superior peak likely gives him the edge over KG and Hakeem. I think we really do tend to forget how dominating he was (at least offensively as per FPL's point) at his best. He was FEARED. Duncan probably gets the edge over those three because he remained consistently excellent for so long. He was a positive contributing factor at both ends each and every year he played. I think LeBron "probably" fits in between that group above and the "big 3". Can't really explain why that well, but that's my feeling.
I'm guessing Russell is the laggard in the big 3 because he only played 13 seasons and he'll be penalized by the lower offensive production. And I think what will put KAJ at number one is that just ridiculous longevity and period of relevance.
Bush4Ever35 wrote:Griff doesn't like Lebron going to a team with real talent because the only way Kobe will do better on a team front compared to Lebron is if Lebron plays on mediocre teams while Kobe plays on very good to great ones.
That's the seed for his opinions on this.
Grant Kobe as much of an artificial advantage as possible, and then simply compare final results.
i'm sorry but kobe did far more with far less than lebron
those 2 titles with top 80-100th all time pau gasol as his sidekick ... bynum averaging 6ppg and being benched the entire 4th quarter of every game ... odom averaging 10 whole points...
he beat a 4 headed monster in boston. he beats the crap out of duncan every time too... what did lebron do most of his career vs those teams ...
i guarantee if you take out lebron and insert prime kobe the miami heat win in 2011 and 2014
Greatest Individual Playoff Performance in NBA history - 22y.o = 29.4 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 6.1 apg, 15-1 Record, #1 in Win Shares
Sudanese Sensation wrote:
When you have lemons, make lemonade.
If LeBron "loses points" for winning championships on good teams shouldn't players like Malone, Barkley, and Garnett get "extra points " for playing spectacularly while not winning championships on bad teams ?
you must know the difference between ring chasing/colluding and just winning with another great player
if you end up together naturally then its ok
usually no more than 2 prime future hall of famers at a time though since the expansion era
so not only was it unfair levels of superstar talent. it was fraudulently manufactured
what lebron did was unforgivable.. it began the banana boat era... nobody cares about competition or feuds anymore. being "comfortable" and stress free is now whats most important to these guys.
durant doesn't care so much about winning rings as he does just not having to deal with pressure anymore.
lebron also wanted to feel the relief and now he cares more about stats again after winning.
Were Pippen, Olajuwon,Drexler, and Barkley a super team ? That's four Hall Of Famers.
Were Pippen, Olajuwon,Drexler, and Barkley a super team ? That's four Hall Of Famers.
ring chasing is ok as long as you're well past your prime and you don't have any real GOAT aspirations
hakeem needed a wingman. drexler was traded there midseason in 95 when he was 32 years old and already had a long career in portland... not a collusion or ring chasing moment
barkleys however was indeed ring chasing. but he was already 33 and it was his very last relevant year in the league. it was a last ditch effort at a ring
this is very different than 3 guys that all came in the league together colluding to create a big 3 during all their absolute primes
i guarantee if barkley/pippen/hakeem teamed up when they were lebron/wade/boshes ages... theyed have won 4-5 straight titles
Were Bob Cousy,Tom Heinsohn,K.C. Jones, Sam Jones,Frank Ramsey and Bill Russell a super team ?
you're not taking eras into consideration. i said post expansion for a reason. when theres only 8 teams you'd have a team that has a shit ton of stars. wilts teams had 3-4 hall of famers too ... back then it was normal
when the league got to 28-30 teams it was unheard of to have 3 prime hall of famers ... lebron was the first
Greatest Individual Playoff Performance in NBA history - 22y.o = 29.4 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 6.1 apg, 15-1 Record, #1 in Win Shares
vcsgrizzfan wrote:
Just for fun, give your "guess" on the rankings going forward. I'm going to go with this.
KG
Hakeem
Shaq
Duncan
LeBron
Russell
MJ
KAJ
I think Shaq's superior peak likely gives him the edge over KG and Hakeem. I think we really do tend to forget how dominating he was (at least offensively as per FPL's point) at his best. He was FEARED. Duncan probably gets the edge over those three because he remained consistently excellent for so long. He was a positive contributing factor at both ends each and every year he played. I think LeBron "probably" fits in between that group above and the "big 3". Can't really explain why that well, but that's my feeling.
I'm guessing Russell is the laggard in the big 3 because he only played 13 seasons and he'll be penalized by the lower offensive production. And I think what will put KAJ at number one is that just ridiculous longevity and period of relevance.
vcsgrizzfan wrote:
Just for fun, give your "guess" on the rankings going forward. I'm going to go with this.
KG
Hakeem
Shaq
Duncan
LeBron
Russell
MJ
KAJ
I think Shaq's superior peak likely gives him the edge over KG and Hakeem. I think we really do tend to forget how dominating he was (at least offensively as per FPL's point) at his best. He was FEARED. Duncan probably gets the edge over those three because he remained consistently excellent for so long. He was a positive contributing factor at both ends each and every year he played. I think LeBron "probably" fits in between that group above and the "big 3". Can't really explain why that well, but that's my feeling.
I'm guessing Russell is the laggard in the big 3 because he only played 13 seasons and he'll be penalized by the lower offensive production. And I think what will put KAJ at number one is that just ridiculous longevity and period of relevance.
Hakeem
KG
Shaq
Russell
Duncan
Lebron
MJ
Kareem
But that's just a guess.
you do realize theres an agenda behind this right?
thats why malones ahead of kobe
lebrons gonna be #1
winning counts for fuck all in this shit
choking counts for fuck all too
Greatest Individual Playoff Performance in NBA history - 22y.o = 29.4 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 6.1 apg, 15-1 Record, #1 in Win Shares
vcsgrizzfan wrote:
Just for fun, give your "guess" on the rankings going forward. I'm going to go with this.
KG
Hakeem
Shaq
Duncan
LeBron
Russell
MJ
KAJ
I think Shaq's superior peak likely gives him the edge over KG and Hakeem. I think we really do tend to forget how dominating he was (at least offensively as per FPL's point) at his best. He was FEARED. Duncan probably gets the edge over those three because he remained consistently excellent for so long. He was a positive contributing factor at both ends each and every year he played. I think LeBron "probably" fits in between that group above and the "big 3". Can't really explain why that well, but that's my feeling.
I'm guessing Russell is the laggard in the big 3 because he only played 13 seasons and he'll be penalized by the lower offensive production. And I think what will put KAJ at number one is that just ridiculous longevity and period of relevance.
Hakeem
KG
Shaq
Russell
Duncan
Lebron
MJ
Kareem
But that's just a guess.
Interesting. I'm really curious how much he will value Russell's defense and how he analyzes his contributions. The 13 years only hurts him. But the fact he the Celtics had the best defense in the NBA 12 out of his 13 seasons (2nd the other time) and that he proved he could elevate his game offensively when required (30 points and 40 rebounds in game 7 of the 1962 series against the Lakers) makes me think he HAS to have him in his top 3. We'll see.
