Backpick all time rankings..

[vcsgrizzfan]

They are up to the final 8. It will be a different list than most would predict by a long shot.

At 9 was Wilt. And I think they did a fine job with the scouting report on him and pretty much everyone else. The biggest surprise relative to most lists will be Kevin Garnett. I know this will please FPL who I suspect has him more highly rated than anyone else here. I have also thought he was very underrated and dealt criminally unfair shakes through his prime, but FPL loved him for as long as I can recall him posting. Shaq and Hakeem make it. Bird did not (#11), Magic did not (#10) and neither did Kobe (#14) which are the surprises of elite players on the low side. I'm guessing the 8 will be Garnett, LeBron, Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem, Russell, KAJ and MJ. Can't imagine anything else.
http://www.backpicks.com/2017/12/11/the ... a-history/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Sudanese Sensation]

They are up to the final 8. It will be a different list than most would predict by a long shot.

At 9 was Wilt. And I think they did a fine job with the scouting report on him and pretty much everyone else. The biggest surprise relative to most lists will be Kevin Garnett. I know this will please FPL who I suspect has him more highly rated than anyone else here. I have also thought he was very underrated and dealt criminally unfair shakes through his prime, but FPL loved him for as long as I can recall him posting. Shaq and Hakeem make it. Bird did not (#11), Magic did not (#10) and neither did Kobe (#14) which are the surprises of elite players on the low side. I'm guessing the 8 will be Garnett, LeBron, Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem, Russell, KAJ and MJ. Can't imagine anything else.
http://www.backpicks.com/2017/12/11/the ... a-history/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90013" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[FPL]

They are up to the final 8. It will be a different list than most would predict by a long shot.

At 9 was Wilt. And I think they did a fine job with the scouting report on him and pretty much everyone else. The biggest surprise relative to most lists will be Kevin Garnett. I know this will please FPL who I suspect has him more highly rated than anyone else here. I have also thought he was very underrated and dealt criminally unfair shakes through his prime, but FPL loved him for as long as I can recall him posting. Shaq and Hakeem make it. Bird did not (#11), Magic did not (#10) and neither did Kobe (#14) which are the surprises of elite players on the low side. I'm guessing the 8 will be Garnett, LeBron, Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem, Russell, KAJ and MJ. Can't imagine anything else.
http://www.backpicks.com/2017/12/11/the ... a-history/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Indeed I do. I haven't done a GOAT list in a while, but I have KG higher than most everybody. Likely will put together a new list by the end of the season.

Ben/ElGee (the author) is a fantastic read. As you said, he rates players differently than most, but he's done more legwork than anybody else I've ever seen put together a GOAT list.

[vcsgrizzfan]

KG >>>>>>>> Dirk.

That is all.

[Lamelo_Ball]

i usually don't respond to grizz's threads cause i placed him on ignore. but i still have to read his thread titles and people quote him so it makes it impossible sometimes


no troll in me right now. the fact that this is called "best CAREERS" is a joke since its obviously undervaluing a guy like kobe due to some advanced analytic that doesn't have anything to do with careers/accolades/accomplishments/output/results

and even if they called it "best players" then hes 2 spots lower than even the harshest critics have been on him in the past

can anyone honestly name 13 careers better than this?

2000 NBA Champion
2001 NBA Champion
2002 NBA Champion
2004 NBA WC Champion
2008 NBA WC Champion
2009 NBA Champion
2010 NBA Champion
2008 Olympic Gold Medalist
2012 Olympic Gold Medalist
2002 All-Star Game Most Valuable Player
2007 All-Star Game Most Valuable Player
2007-08 Most Valuable Player
2009 All-Star Game Most Valuable Player
2009 Finals Most Valuable Player
2010 Finals Most Valuable Player
2011 All-Star Game Most Valuable Player
1998-99 All-NBA (3rd)
1999-00 All-Defensive (1st)
1999-00 All-NBA (2nd)
2000-01 All-Defensive (2nd)
2000-01 All-NBA (2nd)
2001-02 All-Defensive (2nd)
2001-02 All-NBA (1st)
2002-03 All-Defensive (1st)
2002-03 All-NBA (1st)
2003-04 All-Defensive (1st)
2003-04 All-NBA (1st)
2004-05 All-NBA (3rd)
2005-06 All-Defensive (1st)
2005-06 All-NBA (1st)
2006-07 All-Defensive (1st)
2006-07 All-NBA (1st)
2007-08 All-Defensive (1st)
2007-08 All-NBA (1st)
2008-09 All-Defensive (1st)
2008-09 All-NBA (1st)
2009-10 All-Defensive (1st)
2009-10 All-NBA (1st)
2010-11 All-Defensive (1st)
2010-11 All-NBA (1st)
2011-12 All-Defensive (2nd)
2011-12 All-NBA (1st)
2012-13 All-NBA (1st)
1998 NBA All-Star Starter
2000 NBA All-Star Starter
2001 NBA All-Star Starter
2002 NBA All-Star Starter
2003 NBA All-Star Starter
2004 NBA All-Star Starter
2005 NBA All-Star Starter
2006 NBA All-Star Starter
2007 NBA All-Star Starter
2008 NBA All-Star Starter
2009 NBA All-Star Starter
2010 NBA All-Star Starter
2011 NBA All-Star Starter
2012 NBA All-Star Starter
2013 NBA All-Star Starter
2014 NBA All-Star Starter
2015 NBA All-Star Starter
2016 NBA All-Star Starter

PPG
2000-01 NBA 28.5 (4th)
2001-02 NBA 25.2 (6th)
2002-03 NBA 30.0 (2nd)
2003-04 NBA 24.0 (4th)
2004-05 NBA 27.6 (2nd)
2005-06 NBA 35.4 (1st)
2006-07 NBA 31.6 (1st)
2007-08 NBA 28.3 (2nd)
2008-09 NBA 26.8 (3rd)
2009-10 NBA 27.0 (4th)
2010-11 NBA 25.3 (5th)
2011-12 NBA 27.9 (2nd)
2012-13 NBA 27.3 (3rd)


40 point games: 135
50 point games: 26
60 point games: 6
70/80 point games: 1



















basketball reference: 4th all time in Hall of fame probability










i don't think oscar robertsons career is better with his 0 fmvps, 1 title as a 2nd option


this is his career record as a Cincinnati Royal

1960-61: 33-46
1961-62: 43-37
1962-63: 42-38
1963-64: 55-25
1964-65: 48-32
1965-66: 45-35
1966-67: 39-42
1967-68: 39-43
1968-69: 41-41
1969-70: 36-46

421-385




kobe didn't need a kareem abdul jabbar to be a champion... all he needed was a boarderline top 80-100 player all time in pau gasol

[Sudanese Sensation]

6× NBA champion (1971, 1980, 1982, 1985, 1987, 1988)
2× NBA Finals MVP (1971, 1985)
6× NBA Most Valuable Player (1971, 1972, 1974, 1976, 1977, 1980)
19× NBA All-Star (1970–1977, 1979–1989)
10× All-NBA First Team (1971–1974, 1976, 1977, 1980, 1981, 1984, 1986)
5× All-NBA Second Team (1970, 1978, 1979, 1983, 1985)
5× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1974, 1975, 1979–1981)
6× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (1970, 1971, 1976–1978, 1984)
NBA Rookie of the Year (1970)
2× NBA scoring champion (1971, 1972)
NBA rebounding champion (1976)
4× NBA blocks leader (1975, 1976, 1979, 1980)
No. 33 retired by Milwaukee Bucks
No. 33 retired by Los Angeles Lakers
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team
3× NCAA champion (1967–1969)
3× NCAA Final Four Most Outstanding Player (1967–1969)
3× National college player of the year (1967–1969)
3× Consensus first-team All-American (1967–1969)
No. 33 retired by UCLA

[vcsgrizzfan]

i usually don't respond to grizz's threads cause i placed him on ignore. but i still have to read his thread titles and people quote him so it makes it impossible sometimes


no troll in me right now. the fact that this is called "best CAREERS" is a joke since its obviously undervaluing a guy like kobe due to some advanced analytic that doesn't have anything to do with careers/accolades/accomplishments/output/results

and even if they called it "best players" then hes 2 spots lower than even the harshest critics have been on him in the past

can anyone honestly name 13 careers better than this?

2000 NBA Champion
2001 NBA Champion
2002 NBA Champion
2004 NBA WC Champion
2008 NBA WC Champion
2009 NBA Champion
2010 NBA Champion
2008 Olympic Gold Medalist
2012 Olympic Gold Medalist
2002 All-Star Game Most Valuable Player
2007 All-Star Game Most Valuable Player
2007-08 Most Valuable Player
2009 All-Star Game Most Valuable Player
2009 Finals Most Valuable Player
2010 Finals Most Valuable Player
2011 All-Star Game Most Valuable Player
1998-99 All-NBA (3rd)
1999-00 All-Defensive (1st)
1999-00 All-NBA (2nd)
2000-01 All-Defensive (2nd)
2000-01 All-NBA (2nd)
2001-02 All-Defensive (2nd)
2001-02 All-NBA (1st)
2002-03 All-Defensive (1st)
2002-03 All-NBA (1st)
2003-04 All-Defensive (1st)
2003-04 All-NBA (1st)
2004-05 All-NBA (3rd)
2005-06 All-Defensive (1st)
2005-06 All-NBA (1st)
2006-07 All-Defensive (1st)
2006-07 All-NBA (1st)
2007-08 All-Defensive (1st)
2007-08 All-NBA (1st)
2008-09 All-Defensive (1st)
2008-09 All-NBA (1st)
2009-10 All-Defensive (1st)
2009-10 All-NBA (1st)
2010-11 All-Defensive (1st)
2010-11 All-NBA (1st)
2011-12 All-Defensive (2nd)
2011-12 All-NBA (1st)
2012-13 All-NBA (1st)
1998 NBA All-Star Starter
2000 NBA All-Star Starter
2001 NBA All-Star Starter
2002 NBA All-Star Starter
2003 NBA All-Star Starter
2004 NBA All-Star Starter
2005 NBA All-Star Starter
2006 NBA All-Star Starter
2007 NBA All-Star Starter
2008 NBA All-Star Starter
2009 NBA All-Star Starter
2010 NBA All-Star Starter
2011 NBA All-Star Starter
2012 NBA All-Star Starter
2013 NBA All-Star Starter
2014 NBA All-Star Starter
2015 NBA All-Star Starter
2016 NBA All-Star Starter

PPG
2000-01 NBA 28.5 (4th)
2001-02 NBA 25.2 (6th)
2002-03 NBA 30.0 (2nd)
2003-04 NBA 24.0 (4th)
2004-05 NBA 27.6 (2nd)
2005-06 NBA 35.4 (1st)
2006-07 NBA 31.6 (1st)
2007-08 NBA 28.3 (2nd)
2008-09 NBA 26.8 (3rd)
2009-10 NBA 27.0 (4th)
2010-11 NBA 25.3 (5th)
2011-12 NBA 27.9 (2nd)
2012-13 NBA 27.3 (3rd)


40 point games: 135
50 point games: 26
60 point games: 6
70/80 point games: 1



















basketball reference: 4th all time in Hall of fame probability










i don't think oscar robertsons career is better with his 0 fmvps, 1 title as a 2nd option


this is his career record as a Cincinnati Royal

1960-61: 33-46
1961-62: 43-37
1962-63: 42-38
1963-64: 55-25
1964-65: 48-32
1965-66: 45-35
1966-67: 39-42
1967-68: 39-43
1968-69: 41-41
1969-70: 36-46

421-385




kobe didn't need a kareem abdul jabbar to be a champion... all he needed was a boarderline top 80-100 player all time in pau gasol

1) I own your soul
2) You're full of shit. You don't have me on ignore
3) This thread is for the adults here, so
4) Stop spamming my thread.

[Lamelo_Ball]

6× NBA champion (1971, 1980, 1982, 1985, 1987, 1988)
2× NBA Finals MVP (1971, 1985)
6× NBA Most Valuable Player (1971, 1972, 1974, 1976, 1977, 1980)
19× NBA All-Star (1970–1977, 1979–1989)
10× All-NBA First Team (1971–1974, 1976, 1977, 1980, 1981, 1984, 1986)
5× All-NBA Second Team (1970, 1978, 1979, 1983, 1985)
5× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1974, 1975, 1979–1981)
6× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (1970, 1971, 1976–1978, 1984)
NBA Rookie of the Year (1970)
2× NBA scoring champion (1971, 1972)
NBA rebounding champion (1976)
4× NBA blocks leader (1975, 1976, 1979, 1980)
No. 33 retired by Milwaukee Bucks
No. 33 retired by Los Angeles Lakers
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team
3× NCAA champion (1967–1969)
3× NCAA Final Four Most Outstanding Player (1967–1969)
3× National college player of the year (1967–1969)
3× Consensus first-team All-American (1967–1969)
No. 33 retired by UCLA

i have kareem over kobe too ... infact i think hes arguably #1


keep going though

[Lamelo_Ball]

in my opinion based on pure careers ... the only guys with better ones are jordan, kareem and maybe russell

[Bush4Ever35]

The ones I had to stop and think about for a bit (so far) have been Reggie Miller, David Robinson, and Moses Malone (though I had started to come around a bit on lowering him wayyyyyy more than I had in the past, personally).

A Chris Paul 21st ranking is one of those things that just doesn't pass an initial smell test, but I think he did as good a job as you can do in defense of that opinion.

[Sudanese Sensation]

The ones I had to stop and think about for a bit (so far) have been Reggie Miller, David Robinson, and Moses Malone (though I had started to come around a bit on lowering him wayyyyyy more than I had in the past, personally).

A Chris Paul 21st ranking is one of those things that just doesn't an initial smell test, but I think he did as good a job as you can do in defense of that opinion.

Shaq might be in his top five.

[vcsgrizzfan]

The ones I had to stop and think about for a bit (so far) have been Reggie Miller, David Robinson, and Moses Malone (though I had started to come around a bit on lowering him wayyyyyy more than I had in the past, personally).

A Chris Paul 21st ranking is one of those things that just doesn't an initial smell test, but I think he did as good a job as you can do in defense of that opinion.

The scouting report on Miller was really well done. It made me rethink a few assumptions I had. Chris Paul is weird. He's an amazing player at times and has often made chicken salad out of chicken feathers, but then he has a propensity to dribble the ball off his foot at the WORST possible time.

[Lamelo_Ball]

The ones I had to stop and think about for a bit (so far) have been Reggie Miller, David Robinson, and Moses Malone (though I had started to come around a bit on lowering him wayyyyyy more than I had in the past, personally).

A Chris Paul 21st ranking is one of those things that just doesn't an initial smell test, but I think he did as good a job as you can do in defense of that opinion.

Shaq might be in his top five.

if the list is so bad already. why do people pay attention to the remaining selections

[FPL]

BTW just saw this, evidently he got a shoutout from Brent Barry the other day:

[vcsgrizzfan]

The ones I had to stop and think about for a bit (so far) have been Reggie Miller, David Robinson, and Moses Malone (though I had started to come around a bit on lowering him wayyyyyy more than I had in the past, personally).

A Chris Paul 21st ranking is one of those things that just doesn't an initial smell test, but I think he did as good a job as you can do in defense of that opinion.

Shaq might be in his top five.

Shaq was incredibly dominating for a long stretch. It's easy to forget how he made every team game plan against him as option 1,2 and 3 and he still punched them in the mouth.

[vcsgrizzfan]

BTW just saw this, evidently he got a shoutout from Brent Barry the other day:

It really is fantastic stuff. I really am looking forward to seeing his takes on the final 8.

[Bush4Ever35]

Shaq might be in his top five.

One of the neat side things from this project is seeing what individual seasons he rates highest.

Right now 2017 Curry and 1967 Wilt are tied, and Bird's 1986 season is in third (IIRC).

Of course, the heaviest hitters haven't shown up yet. I'll be interested to see what he thinks the best peaks are.

[FPL]

Shaq was a monster force, and a top eight slotting certainly is tenable, but my main issue with him is how bad his defense was against the pick-and-roll. He went 1-8 against the Jazz, and pretty much every team spams it nowadays (he also didn't like coming out against shooters, but guys like Mutombo and Gobert have shown you can have DPOY impact as a rim protector).

If you have his offense as that good though, it can offset a relatively weak defensive profile I think.

[Shill Jackson]

The ones I had to stop and think about for a bit (so far) have been Reggie Miller, David Robinson, and Moses Malone (though I had started to come around a bit on lowering him wayyyyyy more than I had in the past, personally).

A Chris Paul 21st ranking is one of those things that just doesn't an initial smell test, but I think he did as good a job as you can do in defense of that opinion.

The scouting report on Miller was really well done. It made me rethink a few assumptions I had. Chris Paul is weird. He's an amazing player at times and has often made chicken salad out of chicken feathers, but then he has a propensity to dribble the ball off his foot at the WORST possible time.

and he’s repeatedly injured, among other things

I can’t get past the KG over Bird/Magic/Kobe thing. Yes he was a hell of a player, but come on!
Once a sports take that is supposed to be about metrics puts in these completely arbitrary lines in the sand, you’ve lost me.
It then seems to be about agenda more than anything else (and of course, yes, we all have agendas)

[Sudanese Sensation]

Shaq might be in his top five.

One of the neat side things from this project is seeing what individual seasons he rates highest.

Right now 2017 Curry and 1967 Wilt are tied, and Bird's 1986 season is in third (IIRC).

Of course, the heaviest hitters haven't shown up yet. I'll be interested to see what he thinks the best peaks are.

Shaq suffers from the primacy and recency effect. If he retired after his fourth championship and not spend five seasons in a swoon his legacy would loom larger. But who leaves 100m + on the table ?