So a 5th Superbowl would make Tom Brady the undisputed GOAT, right?

[Robceltsfan]

*Casual football fan disclaimer*

My guess would be that Montana was noticeably better than Brady (peer to peer) at the start of their respective careers, but Brady was superior at the back end.

This is very true.

[Robceltsfan]

# of times leading/top 5 in a category:

Passing TD's

Montana: 2/7
Brady: 4/9

Passing Yards

Montana: 0/5
Brady: 2/6

QB Rating

Montana: 2/8
Brady: 2/6

Comp %

Montana: 5/10 (his best category)
Brady: 1/5

INT %

Montana: 1/9
Brady: 4/7

TD%

Montana: 2/4
Brady: 2/6

Total Offense

Montana: 0/6
Brady: 2/6



This is all arbitrary and up for debate as to what stats are an indicator of being a good QB....and it also shows 16 seasons of Brady's career as opposed to only 12ish qualified seasons for Montana. Team record as a starting QB is important too, and Brady wins that one going away...

Montana: 117-47....16-7 playoffs
Brady: 183-52.....24-9 playoffs


In the end, Brady and Montana are the only two viable options for "GOAT QB" status.....and I feel Brady has a slight edge. But an argument can be made in favor of Montana (just not arguments revolving around rules/eras/etc.).

[paskeezy3000]

absolutely. he's the goat right now. another super bowl LeOSS and there should be no argument. another win puts him way out ahead.

[elmouse03]

Screw you all. I'm taking Terry Bradshaw.

[elmerjfudd]

# of times leading/top 5 in a category:

Passing TD's

Montana: 2/7
Brady: 4/9
Unitas: 4/9

Passing Yards

Montana: 0/5
Brady: 2/6
Unitas: 4/9


QB Rating

Montana: 2/8
Brady: 2/6
Unitas: 3/9

Comp %

Montana: 5/10 (his best category)
Brady: 1/5
Unitas: 1/8

INT %

Montana: 1/9
Brady: 4/7
Unitas: 2/7

TD%

Montana: 2/4
Brady: 2/6
Unitas: 4/7

Total Offense

Montana: 0/6
Brady: 2/6
Unitas: 5/13


This is all arbitrary and up for debate as to what stats are an indicator of being a good QB....and it also shows 16 seasons of Brady's career as opposed to only 12ish qualified seasons for Montana. Team record as a starting QB is important too, and Brady wins that one going away...

Montana: 117-47....16-7 playoffs
Brady: 183-52.....24-9 playoffs
Unitas 118-63...... 6-3

In the end, Brady and Montana are the only two viable options for "GOAT QB" status.....and I feel Brady has a slight edge. But an argument can be made in favor of Montana (just not arguments revolving around rules/eras/etc.).

Regular Season MVP
Unitas - 4
Brady - 2
Montana - 2

All-Pro
Unitas - 7
Brady - 4
Montana - 5

[Robceltsfan]

# of times leading/top 5 in a category:

Passing TD's

Montana: 2/7
Brady: 4/9
Unitas: 4/9

Passing Yards

Montana: 0/5
Brady: 2/6
Unitas: 4/9


QB Rating

Montana: 2/8
Brady: 2/6
Unitas: 3/9

Comp %

Montana: 5/10 (his best category)
Brady: 1/5
Unitas: 1/8

INT %

Montana: 1/9
Brady: 4/7
Unitas: 2/7

TD%

Montana: 2/4
Brady: 2/6
Unitas: 4/7

Total Offense

Montana: 0/6
Brady: 2/6
Unitas: 5/13


This is all arbitrary and up for debate as to what stats are an indicator of being a good QB....and it also shows 16 seasons of Brady's career as opposed to only 12ish qualified seasons for Montana. Team record as a starting QB is important too, and Brady wins that one going away...

Montana: 117-47....16-7 playoffs
Brady: 183-52.....24-9 playoffs
Unitas 118-63...... 6-3

In the end, Brady and Montana are the only two viable options for "GOAT QB" status.....and I feel Brady has a slight edge. But an argument can be made in favor of Montana (just not arguments revolving around rules/eras/etc.).

Regular Season MVP
Unitas - 4
Brady - 2
Montana - 2

All-Pro
Unitas - 7
Brady - 4
Montana - 5

Had his career occurred post-merger....he'd be in the running.

[elmerjfudd]

# of times leading/top 5 in a category:

Passing TD's

Montana: 2/7
Brady: 4/9
Unitas: 4/9

Passing Yards

Montana: 0/5
Brady: 2/6
Unitas: 4/9


QB Rating

Montana: 2/8
Brady: 2/6
Unitas: 3/9

Comp %

Montana: 5/10 (his best category)
Brady: 1/5
Unitas: 1/8

INT %

Montana: 1/9
Brady: 4/7
Unitas: 2/7

TD%

Montana: 2/4
Brady: 2/6
Unitas: 4/7

Total Offense

Montana: 0/6
Brady: 2/6
Unitas: 5/13


This is all arbitrary and up for debate as to what stats are an indicator of being a good QB....and it also shows 16 seasons of Brady's career as opposed to only 12ish qualified seasons for Montana. Team record as a starting QB is important too, and Brady wins that one going away...

Montana: 117-47....16-7 playoffs
Brady: 183-52.....24-9 playoffs
Unitas 118-63...... 6-3

In the end, Brady and Montana are the only two viable options for "GOAT QB" status.....and I feel Brady has a slight edge. But an argument can be made in favor of Montana (just not arguments revolving around rules/eras/etc.).

Regular Season MVP
Unitas - 4
Brady - 2
Montana - 2

All-Pro
Unitas - 7
Brady - 4
Montana - 5

Had his career occurred post-merger....he'd be in the running.

Then I choose The Sheriff

[Robceltsfan]

Regular Season MVP
Unitas - 4
Brady - 2
Montana - 2

All-Pro
Unitas - 7
Brady - 4
Montana - 5

Had his career occurred post-merger....he'd be in the running.

Then I choose The Sheriff

I think he's the greatest all-around QB of all-time....but he failed in the limelight too often to ascend to #1. Manning, Marino....all-time greats, but not enough rings.

[elmerjfudd]

Had his career occurred post-merger....he'd be in the running.

Then I choose The Sheriff

I think he's the greatest all-around QB of all-time....but he failed in the limelight too often to ascend to #1. Manning, Marino....all-time greats, but not enough rings.

The majority believe QBs win games so going with Montana or Brady makes the most sense.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

[Robceltsfan]

Then I choose The Sheriff

I think he's the greatest all-around QB of all-time....but he failed in the limelight too often to ascend to #1. Manning, Marino....all-time greats, but not enough rings.

The majority believe QBs win games so going with Montana or Brady makes the most sense.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

There's certainly a lot of moving parts in football, but the QB is *usually* the most important piece to the puzzle. There are exceptions to that rule, but a great QB has been the common denominator to many franchises long-term success.

[876Stephen]

Tom Brady is GOAT if he wins a 5th super bowl. It would be unprecedented.

I've said before that the margin for error is much larger with Brady than most quarterbacks in NFL history, including i would argue, Joe Montana.

However his stats, longevity, mvp's and his outstanding play in big moments would absolutely give him an edge.

[rtiff68]

# of times leading/top 5 in a category:

Passing TD's

Montana: 2/7
Brady: 4/9

Passing Yards

Montana: 0/5
Brady: 2/6

QB Rating

Montana: 2/8
Brady: 2/6

Comp %

Montana: 5/10 (his best category)
Brady: 1/5

INT %

Montana: 1/9
Brady: 4/7

TD%

Montana: 2/4
Brady: 2/6

Total Offense

Montana: 0/6
Brady: 2/6



This is all arbitrary and up for debate as to what stats are an indicator of being a good QB....and it also shows 16 seasons of Brady's career as opposed to only 12ish qualified seasons for Montana. Team record as a starting QB is important too, and Brady wins that one going away...

Montana: 117-47....16-7 playoffs
Brady: 183-52.....24-9 playoffs


In the end, Brady and Montana are the only two viable options for "GOAT QB" status.....and I feel Brady has a slight edge. But an argument can be made in favor of Montana (just not arguments revolving around rules/eras/etc.).

Thanks for posting those numbers, Rob. One pair I wanted to take a closer look at was their playoff records...and overall numbers in the postseason.

As most people know, the "legend" of Joe Montana has everything to do with how "clutch" he always was in the biggest moments and on the biggest stages, so I decided to compare his postseason numbers to Brady's.

As you said, Montana was 16-7 in the playoffs, while Brady was 24-9.

After that...

Montana: 23 games / 45 TDs / 21 INTs / 7.9 Y/A / 251.0 Y/G / 62.7% cmp / 95.6 passer rating

Brady: 33 games / 61 TDs / 30 INTs / 6.8 Y/A / 261.5 Y/G / 62.4% cmp / 88.7 passer rating

Their numbers are staggeringly close on a per-game basis: Montana has the slightest of advantages in TDs and INTs per game, and completion percentage, while Brady has the slightest of advantages in Y/G. Montana has a more significant advantage in Y/A and passer rating.

But here's the kicker-- the fact that their numbers are close at all in a vacuum, not to mention the fact that they arguably favor Montana, is a massive plus for Montana in this head-to-head debate. The reason we compare players to their peers in debates like this is because rule changes and other factors dramatically affect statistics from era to era, and this is especially significant when comparing QBs. There's a reason why "career NFL passer rating" is the most massively useless statistic in existence-- the way the game has changed over the years in terms of inflating passing and receiving numbers has rendered it obsolete.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/l ... career.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The fact that Montana was Brady's equal or better statistically in the postseason with meaningful sample sizes in an "apples to apples" comparison is nothing short of incredible.

[rtiff68]

And, to keep with the "peers-to-peers" theme, here's some expanded postseason statistical comparisons...

Montana: 23 games (16-7) / 45 TDs / 21 INTs / 7.9 Y/A / 251.0 Y/G / 62.7% cmp / 95.6 passer rating

Marino: 18 games (8-10) / 32 TDs / 24 INTs / 6.6 Y/A / 250.6 Y/G / 56.0% cmp / 77.1 passer rating
Elway: 22 games (14-7) / 27 TDs / 21 INTs / 7.6 Y/A / 225.6 Y/G / 54.5% cmp / 79.7 passer rating

Brady: 33 games (24-9) / 61 TDs / 30 INTs / 6.8 Y/A / 261.5 Y/G / 62.4% cmp / 88.7 passer rating

Manning: 27 games (14-13) / 40 TDs / 25 INTs / 7.1 Y/A/ / 271.8 Y/G / 63.2% cmp / 87.4 passer rating
Rodgers: 16 games (9-7) / 36 TDs / 10 INTs / 7.5 Y/A/ / 262.2 Y/G / 63.5% cmp / 99.4 passer rating

Statistically speaking, the gap between Montana and his peers in the postseason was far wider than the gap between Brady and his peers.

[Shill Jackson]

[thedangerouskitchen]

I think another factor that is overlooked in the Brady/Montana argument is the protection WR's get too...Guys like Welker would not have been nearly as effective working the middle of the field if they had to deal with guys like Kenny Easley and Steve Atwater teeing off on them...you simply cannot make a WR pay for going over the middle in today's game the way you could back in Montana's day...Another huge advantage for Brady...

Another great point... of course lump-lumps like Rob don't believe this is any real advantage, clearly because the dude never played football.

[thedangerouskitchen]

And, to keep with the "peers-to-peers" theme, here's some expanded postseason statistical comparisons...

Montana: 23 games (16-7) / 45 TDs / 21 INTs / 7.9 Y/A / 251.0 Y/G / 62.7% cmp / 95.6 passer rating

Marino: 18 games (8-10) / 32 TDs / 24 INTs / 6.6 Y/A / 250.6 Y/G / 56.0% cmp / 77.1 passer rating
Elway: 22 games (14-7) / 27 TDs / 21 INTs / 7.6 Y/A / 225.6 Y/G / 54.5% cmp / 79.7 passer rating

Brady: 33 games (24-9) / 61 TDs / 30 INTs / 6.8 Y/A / 261.5 Y/G / 62.4% cmp / 88.7 passer rating

Manning: 27 games (14-13) / 40 TDs / 25 INTs / 7.1 Y/A/ / 271.8 Y/G / 63.2% cmp / 87.4 passer rating
Rodgers: 16 games (9-7) / 36 TDs / 10 INTs / 7.5 Y/A/ / 262.2 Y/G / 63.5% cmp / 99.4 passer rating

Statistically speaking, the gap between Montana and his peers in the postseason was far wider than the gap between Brady and his peers.

Rob CRUSHED with facts...

Montana is the GOAT QB, case-closed.

[Da Stars.]

Anyone have the numbers on the defensive and offensive rating of the teams Tom and Joe played in the conference championship games and super bowl?

[Alex_Murphy]

Anyone have the numbers on the defensive and offensive rating of the teams Tom and Joe played in the conference championship games and super bowl?

What the hell would you know about football other than it being another excuse for you to drink 12 cans of natty ice...

[Da Stars.]

Anyone have the numbers on the defensive and offensive rating of the teams Tom and Joe played in the conference championship games and super bowl?

What the hell would you know about football other than it being another excuse for you to drink 12 cans of natty ice...

Go back to your fucking camel.

[PhutureDynasty]

This is my early nomination for thread of the year. How often do we talk about football this in depth with statistics, logic, and reasoning like we did here?