So a 5th Superbowl would make Tom Brady the undisputed GOAT, right?

[Bush4Ever]

"How did they compare to their peers?"

You can look at their various statistical *ranks* in the major QB categories year over year to get an idea about that.

[rileymartin]

Bunch of what ifs here

that is the only thing we have to go by when you compare players across eras, especially when MAJOR, MAJOR rules changes benefit one over the other...

MVPs, All Pros, Touchdown leader, Passing Leader, Offensive Player of the Year.

When comparing across eras those accomplishments seem to stay constant.

Brady is the 2nd greatest ever, so all of those accomplishments make sense, especially when the rule changes were meant to help QB's thrive...

[elmerjfudd]

that is the only thing we have to go by when you compare players across eras, especially when MAJOR, MAJOR rules changes benefit one over the other...

MVPs, All Pros, Touchdown leader, Passing Leader, Offensive Player of the Year.

When comparing across eras those accomplishments seem to stay constant.

Brady is the 2nd greatest ever, so all of those accomplishments make sense, especially when the rule changes were meant to help QB's thrive...

It really doesn't make any sense to be a Montana fan and think Brady is the inferior QB.

[Y2K]

The greatest "player" of all-time? That's a HIGHLY subjective question. Since the QB slot is far and away the most important position in the game, it would be hard to place any player from a different position in the "Greatest Player" category. I consider Barry Sanders to be the greatest RB of all-time (bring it on, haters), but a RB simply can't make enough of a difference to be a complete game changer in the wins column.

I have Barry at #2.

[rileymartin]

MVPs, All Pros, Touchdown leader, Passing Leader, Offensive Player of the Year.

When comparing across eras those accomplishments seem to stay constant.

Brady is the 2nd greatest ever, so all of those accomplishments make sense, especially when the rule changes were meant to help QB's thrive...

It really doesn't make any sense to be a Montana fan and think Brady is the inferior QB.

I never used the word inferior...

[Robceltsfan]

The greatest "player" of all-time? That's a HIGHLY subjective question. Since the QB slot is far and away the most important position in the game, it would be hard to place any player from a different position in the "Greatest Player" category. I consider Barry Sanders to be the greatest RB of all-time (bring it on, haters), but a RB simply can't make enough of a difference to be a complete game changer in the wins column.

I have Barry at #2.

Behind Brown?

[gaskill15]

So with Riley's logic Montana will never be dethroned because of the rule changes. No matter the accomplishments.

[Bush4Ever]

Brady is the 2nd greatest ever, so all of those accomplishments make sense, especially when the rule changes were meant to help QB's thrive...

They helped *all* QBs in the era thrive. Not just Brady.

The rule changes are a constant within era, so they are not relevant when looking at how someone did compared to his peers*.

If someone created a shoe that clipped 0.2 seconds off everyone's 100 time in the Olympics, the times would change, but the rank order of sprinters wouldn't change.

Same idea here.


*Unless one wants to argue a specific rule change had unique differences for a player or team, sort of like Nash and the Suns circa the mid 2000s.

[rileymartin]

So with Riley's logic Montana will never be dethroned because of the rule changes. No matter the accomplishments.

Montana will never be dethroned because he is the greatest ever...

[rileymartin]

Brady is the 2nd greatest ever, so all of those accomplishments make sense, especially when the rule changes were meant to help QB's thrive...

They helped *all* QBs in the era thrive. Not just Brady.

The rule changes are a constant within era, so they are not relevant when looking at how someone did compared to his peers.

If someone created a shoe that clipped 0.2 seconds off everyone's 100 time in the Olympics, the times would change, but the rank order of sprinters wouldn't change.

Same idea here.

But, comparing Montana's contemporaries, and Brady's contemporaries, and, well, there is no comparison. Montana played in an era littered with HOFers, and Brady plays in an era littered with scrubs...

[gaskill15]

So with Riley's logic Montana will never be dethroned because of the rule changes. No matter the accomplishments.

Montana will never be dethroned because he is the greatest ever...

What a horrible response.

[Robceltsfan]

Brady is the 2nd greatest ever, so all of those accomplishments make sense, especially when the rule changes were meant to help QB's thrive...

They helped *all* QBs in the era thrive. Not just Brady.

The rule changes are a constant within era, so they are not relevant when looking at how someone did compared to his peers.

If someone created a shoe that clipped 0.2 seconds off everyone's 100 time in the Olympics, the times would change, but the rank order of sprinters wouldn't change.

Same idea here.

But, comparing Montana's contemporaries, and Brady's contemporaries, and, well, there is no comparison. Montana played in an era littered with HOFers, and Brady plays in an era littered with scrubs...

What? Stop trolling. This is almost as bad as your "Bird is GOAT" shtick.

[rileymartin]

They helped *all* QBs in the era thrive. Not just Brady.

The rule changes are a constant within era, so they are not relevant when looking at how someone did compared to his peers.

If someone created a shoe that clipped 0.2 seconds off everyone's 100 time in the Olympics, the times would change, but the rank order of sprinters wouldn't change.

Same idea here.

But, comparing Montana's contemporaries, and Brady's contemporaries, and, well, there is no comparison. Montana played in an era littered with HOFers, and Brady plays in an era littered with scrubs...

What? Stop trolling. This is almost as bad as your "Bird is GOAT" shtick.

Bird is the greatest...

[3effs]

It isn't that ridiculous when you consider the protection he gets from the referees and the rules...Additionally, he benefits from the fact that the recievers he throws to are protected and coddled by the rules as well.

If Brady and his receivers played under the same set of rules that Montana played under, things would be considerably different. Montana is still the best ever...

Bunch of what ifs here

that is the only thing we have to go by when you compare players across eras, especially when MAJOR, MAJOR rules changes benefit one over the other...

No. We should be judging players by how dominant they were in their respective eras. Not be wondering how player A would have done in player Bs era.

[3effs]

And Montana was the best in the business...

Brady has more of a resume than Montana, and you can use whatever reasoning you want to justify it. Montana's spent his career in SF with world class teams surrounding him almost every year. He regularly played alongside top 5 defensive units. And he did nothing to statistically distance himself from his peers in any way.

Brady has supplanted Montana.

Only in the mind of fan boys...

Joe was the best player and the best QB in the best, most talented era of all time...Great teams simply don't exist in todays NFL like they did in Joe's time because of free agency, and that, coupled with the rules changes makes it much easier for a Tom Brady to be successful...

One could argue free agency actually makes it harder for teams to be successful...it's much harder to keep great teams together now.

[Deez]

1a: Brady
1b: Montana

[thedangerouskitchen]

GOAT 'player' or QB...?

Regardless, the answer is no, in either case: Walter Payton was a better player... and Montana played in a much tougher era AND he didn't have to cheat to win.

Eric Dickerson was better than Walter Payton.

... even Eric Dickerson would laugh at that statement.

Come on now.

[thedangerouskitchen]

GOAT 'player' or QB...?

Regardless, the answer is no, in either case: Walter Payton was a better player... and Montana played in a much tougher era AND he didn't have to cheat to win.

Eric Dickerson was better than Walter Payton.

Jim Brown was significantly better than either.

As "pure" Runnoing Backs there is an argument... as overall players (ie; running, receiving, blocking, PASSING, returning kicks/punts), neither guy can hold Payton's jock.

Go have another Mai Tai...

[Kingcarl24]

Why did everything in existence peak in the 1980s/early 90s according to the geezer crowd?

Basketball, football, music, culture, etc..?

Probably my least favorite demographic of people to have a conversation with.

[thedangerouskitchen]

The ridiculous part is Brady still seems to be getting better rather than regressing.

He turns 40 this year. He's not supposed to be this good.

Not to mention he's doing this without Gronk and making Chris fuckin Hogan look like a superstar.

Eh... Brady's success is a function of the dominance of NE's Offensive Line. We all saw what happens to Brady when he doesn't have aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaall day to throw the ball (ie; vs. Giants in the SB... can you say, Tom "mediocre" Brady? I can).