Probably a Top 5 QB of all-time... but only 2 Championships so he's not on Montana / Brady's level on the GOAT list, even with the era argument factored in (and Johnny's era wasn't all that much tougher than Montana's, if at all, when you consider the abuse QB's took relative to today's cream puff era).
Johnny U won 3 championships
was 7 time all pro (almost more than Brady and Montana combined)
and a 4 time league MVP. (as much as Brady and Montana combined)
Lead the league in passing twice as much as Brady and Montana combined
And by your own admission he played in a tougher era, so I'd assume its the 1 less championship is what doesn't make his resume as good as Brady and Montana.
Tougher era than Brady, without question. Tougher than Montana? Very debatable.
Either way Unitas is in the GOAT discussion for sure, but not ahead of Montana... perhaps you could argue he's the #2 GOAT QB with 3 Championships.
1) Montana
2) Unitas
3) ?
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
Probably a Top 5 QB of all-time... but only 2 Championships so he's not on Montana / Brady's level on the GOAT list, even with the era argument factored in (and Johnny's era wasn't all that much tougher than Montana's, if at all, when you consider the abuse QB's took relative to today's cream puff era).
Johnny U won 3 championships
was 7 time all pro (almost more than Brady and Montana combined)
and a 4 time league MVP. (as much as Brady and Montana combined)
Lead the league in passing twice as much as Brady and Montana combined
And by your own admission he played in a tougher era, so I'd assume its the 1 less championship is what doesn't make his resume as good as Brady and Montana.
thedangerouskitchen wrote:
Probably a Top 5 QB of all-time... but only 2 Championships so he's not on Montana / Brady's level on the GOAT list, even with the era argument factored in (and Johnny's era wasn't all that much tougher than Montana's, if at all, when you consider the abuse QB's took relative to today's cream puff era).
Johnny U won 3 championships
was 7 time all pro (almost more than Brady and Montana combined)
and a 4 time league MVP. (as much as Brady and Montana combined)
Lead the league in passing twice as much as Brady and Montana combined
And by your own admission he played in a tougher era, so I'd assume its the 1 less championship is what doesn't make his resume as good as Brady and Montana.
Debateable GTFOH
Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk
Of course it's debatable... back in the 50's and 60's Linebackers were smaller than many QB's today. That they could knock the QB silly is why Unitas' era is muh tougher than today's marshmallow league, but in Montana's era your LB's and D. Line guys were just as big as they are today AND they could knock the QB flat-out still.
In terms of size / rules combined they rank as follows: 1) Montana, 2) Unitas, 3) Brady... assuming we're just talking about the 3.
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
876Stephen wrote:First of all the Patriots went 11-5 in 08 without Brady not 10-6. Only reason they didn't make the playoffs is because the AFC happened to be extremely stacked that year.
Patriots went 3-1 without Brady this season so who cares how their offense did if they were winning.
The fact is the Patriots have always been able to win football games when Brady plays horribly or doesn't play at all which is something most star quarterbacks haven't been able to say unfortunately.
The fact that this upsets people so much is curious to say least.
Yeah nobody's taking anything away from Belicheck. He's up there with the greatest coaches of all time.
I honestly don't see how anyone can try to knock Brady and then say Montana is the GOAT. It really doesn't make sense to me. You're either on the Rings make the QB the greatest train or not.... and then maybe you can flavor your argument with individual accomplishments.
876Stephen wrote:First of all the Patriots went 11-5 in 08 without Brady not 10-6. Only reason they didn't make the playoffs is because the AFC happened to be extremely stacked that year.
Patriots went 3-1 without Brady this season so who cares how their offense did if they were winning.
The fact is the Patriots have always been able to win football games when Brady plays horribly or doesn't play at all which is something most star quarterbacks haven't been able to say unfortunately.
The fact that this upsets people so much is curious to say least.
Yeah nobody's taking anything away from Belicheck. He's up there with the greatest coaches of all time.
I honestly don't see how anyone can try to knock Brady and then say Montana is the GOAT. It really doesn't make sense to me. You're either on the Rings make the QB the greatest train or not.... and then maybe you can flavor your argument with individual accomplishments.
As I've said many times on this board, I think a strong case can be made for either player. The only way to compare players in football (statistically, in particular) is to compare them to the other greats of their era. I still maintain that Montana's 1989 season was the greatest season by a QB ever-- this is debatable, of course, but a very strong case can be made.
One thing that has been mentioned in this thread (that often gets brought up) is the notion that Brady had inferior receiving threats. Interesting fact that I don't think many people are aware of-- Tom Brady has already had more seasons with Rob Gronkowski than Joe Montana had with Jerry Rice, and that's not even counting the short window Brady had with a near prime Randy Moss. Joe Montana had 2 Super Bowl rings before Jerry Rice left Mississippi Valley state, the first of which he won where his team's leading rusher had less than 600 yards.
I also think it's important to point out that Montana won his last Super Bowl with the 49ers (where he had his best season) and took the Chiefs to the AFC Championship (at 38 years old) without Bill Walsh. We've seen Belichick have small windows of success sans Brady, we haven't ever seen Brady do it without Belichick-- that doesn't mean he couldn't, of course, it's just something to factor in to the discussion when we're nitpicking in a comparison like this.
was 7 time all pro (almost more than Brady and Montana combined)
and a 4 time league MVP. (as much as Brady and Montana combined)
Lead the league in passing twice as much as Brady and Montana combined
And by your own admission he played in a tougher era, so I'd assume its the 1 less championship is what doesn't make his resume as good as Brady and Montana.
Debateable GTFOH
Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk
Of course it's debatable... back in the 50's and 60's Linebackers were smaller than many QB's today. That they could knock the QB silly is why Unitas' era is muh tougher than today's marshmallow league, but in Montana's era your LB's and D. Line guys were just as big as they are today AND they could knock the QB flat-out still.
In terms of size / rules combined they rank as follows: 1) Montana, 2) Unitas, 3) Brady... assuming we're just talking about the 3.
Back in the 80s and 90s linebackers were smaller than many QBs today. Heck we aren't far removed from guys like Tedy Bruschi being one of the elites LBers in the NFL. As the game has evolved there have been more rules put in place each era to make the game safer from better athletes.
Of course it's debatable... back in the 50's and 60's Linebackers were smaller than many QB's today. That they could knock the QB silly is why Unitas' era is muh tougher than today's marshmallow league, but in Montana's era your LB's and D. Line guys were just as big as they are today AND they could knock the QB flat-out still.
In terms of size / rules combined they rank as follows: 1) Montana, 2) Unitas, 3) Brady... assuming we're just talking about the 3.
Back in the 80s and 90s linebackers were smaller than many QBs today. Heck we aren't far removed from guys like Tedy Bruschi being one of the elites LBers in the NFL. As the game has evolved there have been more rules put in place each era to make the game safer from better athletes.
Jack Ham, a great, great linebacker for the Steel Curtain Steelers is a smallish safety in this NFL.
thedangerouskitchen wrote:
Of course it's debatable... back in the 50's and 60's Linebackers were smaller than many QB's today. That they could knock the QB silly is why Unitas' era is muh tougher than today's marshmallow league, but in Montana's era your LB's and D. Line guys were just as big as they are today AND they could knock the QB flat-out still.
In terms of size / rules combined they rank as follows: 1) Montana, 2) Unitas, 3) Brady... assuming we're just talking about the 3.
Back in the 80s and 90s linebackers were smaller than many QBs today. Heck we aren't far removed from guys like Tedy Bruschi being one of the elites LBers in the NFL. As the game has evolved there have been more rules put in place each era to make the game safer from better athletes.
Jack Ham, a great, great linebacker for the Steel Curtain Steelers is a smallish safety in this NFL.
elmerjfudd wrote:
Back in the 80s and 90s linebackers were smaller than many QBs today. Heck we aren't far removed from guys like Tedy Bruschi being one of the elites LBers in the NFL. As the game has evolved there have been more rules put in place each era to make the game safer from better athletes.
Jack Ham, a great, great linebacker for the Steel Curtain Steelers is a smallish safety in this NFL.
Not to argue but no. Still to slow.
Good point, but I was just arguing about his size.
Not a fan of the Pats in the slightest, that certainly extends to Brady. BUT, his greatness cannot be denied.
GOAT? Unsure if he's there yet, or ever will be, but he's without a doubt in the conversation.
"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe you might block every shot."
Bill Russell
"I'm just 'bout that action, boss"
L.O.B. = Love our Brothers.
Bush4Ever wrote:TDK, are we in a peak era for anything besides technology, or did literally everything else peak in the 1980s and 1990s (1991-1993, 1996-1998)?
Just curious.
I know the question wasn't addressed to me, but I'll answer: only the NFL peaked in the '80's, MLB peaked peaked from 2010- 2014, and the NBA is currently peaking.
Bush4Ever wrote:TDK, are we in a peak era for anything besides technology, or did literally everything else peak in the 1980s and 1990s (1991-1993, 1996-1998)?
Just curious.
I know the question wasn't addressed to me, but I'll answer: only the NFL peaked in the '80's, MLB peaked peaked from 2010- 2014, and the NBA is currently peaking.
Hope that helps.
hee hee
i get it
lol
Taking a break from the board. Please reference my last post for more details if you are interested.
Probably a Top 5 QB of all-time... but only 2 Championships so he's not on Montana / Brady's level on the GOAT list, even with the era argument factored in (and Johnny's era wasn't all that much tougher than Montana's, if at all, when you consider the abuse QB's took relative to today's cream puff era).
Johnny U won 3 championships
was 7 time all pro (almost more than Brady and Montana combined)
and a 4 time league MVP. (as much as Brady and Montana combined)
Lead the league in passing twice as much as Brady and Montana combined
And by your own admission he played in a tougher era, so I'd assume its the 1 less championship is what doesn't make his resume as good as Brady and Montana.
