GOAT with win 201...

[thedangerouskitchen]

Eh, Brady's success is clearly a product of the system... as we all saw the Patriots didn't miss a beat with some second-rate back-up like Jimmy Garoppolo completely dominating when Brady was out to start the season. Hell, even NE's 3rd string rookie QB excelled in 2 starts this year. Further, go back to 2008 and Matt freakin' Cassel led NE to an 11-5 record when Brady was hurt.

So yeah... while Brady IS a solid QB, I suspect you could put Donald Duck under center and the Patriots would still be legit contenders year-in-year-out.

[FPL]

I wonder how deep a run the Pats will make with Gronk on the IR? Martellus Bennett is legit and will pick up some of the slack, but they're not the same juggernaut without him. Still, as much as I like Brady, he has racked up a ton of wins, even without top-tier guys catching the ball.

[Robceltsfan]

Eh, Brady's success is clearly a product of the system... as we all saw the Patriots didn't miss a beat with some second-rate back-up like Jimmy Garoppolo completely dominating when Brady was out to start the season. Hell, even NE's 3rd string rookie QB excelled in 2 starts this year. Further, go back to 2008 and Matt freakin' Cassel led NE to an 11-5 record when Brady was hurt.

So yeah... while Brady IS a solid QB, I suspect you could put Donald Duck under center and the Patriots would still be legit contenders year-in-year-out.

I'd spend time with statistics to prove to you how the Pats when run-heavy in '08 or how they've been demonstrably better offensively the last 8 games compared to the first 4 this season...

But I'm quite sure I'd be wasting my time talking to the brick wall that is TDK.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Eh, Brady's success is clearly a product of the system... as we all saw the Patriots didn't miss a beat with some second-rate back-up like Jimmy Garoppolo completely dominating when Brady was out to start the season. Hell, even NE's 3rd string rookie QB excelled in 2 starts this year. Further, go back to 2008 and Matt freakin' Cassel led NE to an 11-5 record when Brady was hurt.

So yeah... while Brady IS a solid QB, I suspect you could put Donald Duck under center and the Patriots would still be legit contenders year-in-year-out.

I'd spend time with statistics to prove to you how the Pats when run-heavy in '08 or how they've been demonstrably better offensively the last 8 games compared to the first 4 this season...

But I'm quite sure I'd be wasting my time talking to the brick wall that is TDK.

Cassel threw over 500 passes in 15 starts in 08... and NE went 3-1 under Garoppolo (2-0) and Brissett (1-1) this year.

Try again.

[Havlicekstealsit]

Gotta love the constant garbage naysayers wanna throw Brady's way whenever GOAT discussion occurs. It's literally the same rinse & repeat shit, every time. HURR DURR YEAH WELL BRADY:

Cheats
Lost a game to _____ shitty QB.
Can't beat Eli in SBs
DNP and his teams still won
Played in weak era protecting QBs/WRs
Isn't better than Montana

[edit: forgot "SYSTEM QB"]

[elmouse03]

The system QB argument is kind of dumb because every QB to ever play was a system QB. Some just had better success in their system than some of the peers.

[thedangerouskitchen]

The system QB argument is kind of dumb because every QB to ever play was a system QB. Some just had better success in their system than some of the peers.

Agreed.. Matt Cassel (in 2008) is a great example.

[Robceltsfan]

Eh, Brady's success is clearly a product of the system... as we all saw the Patriots didn't miss a beat with some second-rate back-up like Jimmy Garoppolo completely dominating when Brady was out to start the season. Hell, even NE's 3rd string rookie QB excelled in 2 starts this year. Further, go back to 2008 and Matt freakin' Cassel led NE to an 11-5 record when Brady was hurt.

So yeah... while Brady IS a solid QB, I suspect you could put Donald Duck under center and the Patriots would still be legit contenders year-in-year-out.

I'd spend time with statistics to prove to you how the Pats when run-heavy in '08 or how they've been demonstrably better offensively the last 8 games compared to the first 4 this season...

But I'm quite sure I'd be wasting my time talking to the brick wall that is TDK.

Cassell threw over 500 passes in 15 starts in 08... and NE went 3-1 under Garoppolo (2-0) and Brissett (1-1) this year.

Try again.

In 2008 the Pats ran the ball 513 times for 2,278 yards and 21 TDs. The 4th most attempts and 6th most yards in the NFL. They threw the ball 534 times for 3,569 yards...12th in attempts and 12th in yards. Keep in mind, the '08 team featured both Randy Moss and Wes Welker...so that was one of the more solid receiving casts in the NFL....and all they mustered was the 12th best passing offense.

In 2007...well...the Pats went 16-0 and Brady had what is likely the greatest offensive season ever. He threw for 29 more TDs than Cassell did the following season and had over 1,100 more yards.


As for this year....they averaged 20.3 ppg and 211 passing yards in the first 4 games....and 29.8 ppg and exactly 300 passing yards per game in the 8 played with Brady.


DEMONSTRABLY better in both scenarios.

[gaskill15]

Gotta love the constant garbage naysayers wanna throw Brady's way whenever GOAT discussion occurs. It's literally the same rinse & repeat shit, every time. HURR DURR YEAH WELL BRADY:

Cheats
Lost a game to _____ shitty QB.
Can't beat Eli in SBs
DNP and his teams still won
Played in weak era protecting QBs/WRs
Isn't better than Montana

You forgot that he can't throw a deep ball. He dinks and dunks his way to ridiculous stats.

[elmerjfudd]

I'd spend time with statistics to prove to you how the Pats when run-heavy in '08 or how they've been demonstrably better offensively the last 8 games compared to the first 4 this season...

But I'm quite sure I'd be wasting my time talking to the brick wall that is TDK.

Cassell threw over 500 passes in 15 starts in 08... and NE went 3-1 under Garoppolo (2-0) and Brissett (1-1) this year.

Try again.

In 2008 the Pats ran the ball 513 times for 2,278 yards and 21 TDs. The 4th most attempts and 6th most yards in the NFL. They threw the ball 534 times for 3,569 yards...12th in attempts and 12th in yards. Keep in mind, the '08 team featured both Randy Moss and Wes Welker...so that was one of the more solid receiving casts in the NFL....and all they mustered was the 12th best passing offense.

In 2007...well...the Pats went 16-0 and Brady had what is likely the greatest offensive season ever. He threw for 29 more TDs than Cassell did the following season and had over 1,100 more yards.


As for this year....they averaged 20.3 ppg and 211 passing yards in the first 4 games....and 29.8 ppg and exactly 300 passing yards per game in the 8 played with Brady.


DEMONSTRABLY better in both scenarios.

To be fair when New England started Brissett they had performances of 97 passing yards and 187 passing yards. Plus one of those games they scored 0 points. The fall off was with Brissett not Garappolo. Yes, the Patriots would take a hit statistically compared to the starter by bringing in backup and it should be worse with a third string. The OP started a post about "201" as to why he was the greatest, yet a QB who didn't start since High School went 10-5 with them and his backup plus 3rd string this season w/o Gronk went 3-1 this in his absence.

[Robceltsfan]

Cassell threw over 500 passes in 15 starts in 08... and NE went 3-1 under Garoppolo (2-0) and Brissett (1-1) this year.

Try again.

In 2008 the Pats ran the ball 513 times for 2,278 yards and 21 TDs. The 4th most attempts and 6th most yards in the NFL. They threw the ball 534 times for 3,569 yards...12th in attempts and 12th in yards. Keep in mind, the '08 team featured both Randy Moss and Wes Welker...so that was one of the more solid receiving casts in the NFL....and all they mustered was the 12th best passing offense.

In 2007...well...the Pats went 16-0 and Brady had what is likely the greatest offensive season ever. He threw for 29 more TDs than Cassell did the following season and had over 1,100 more yards.


As for this year....they averaged 20.3 ppg and 211 passing yards in the first 4 games....and 29.8 ppg and exactly 300 passing yards per game in the 8 played with Brady.


DEMONSTRABLY better in both scenarios.

To be fair when New England started Brissett they had performances of 97 passing yards and 187 passing yards. Plus one of those games they scored 0 points. The fall off was with Brissett not Garappolo. Yes, the Patriots would take a hit statistically compared to the starter by bringing in backup and it should be worse with a third string. The OP started a post about "201" as to why he was the greatest, yet a QB who didn't start since High School went 10-5 with them and his backup plus 3rd string this season w/o Gronk went 3-1 this in his absence.

The team went from 16-0....to 10-6.

A 4-game set of data is inconclusive at best. There's no denying that Bill is a great coach, but the differences statistically are stark, and the consistent winning is present under Brady.

[vcsgrizzfan]

elmer btfo ITT by rob AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rileymartin]

I doubt anyone ever surpasses Cool Joe...

[elmerjfudd]

In 2008 the Pats ran the ball 513 times for 2,278 yards and 21 TDs. The 4th most attempts and 6th most yards in the NFL. They threw the ball 534 times for 3,569 yards...12th in attempts and 12th in yards. Keep in mind, the '08 team featured both Randy Moss and Wes Welker...so that was one of the more solid receiving casts in the NFL....and all they mustered was the 12th best passing offense.

In 2007...well...the Pats went 16-0 and Brady had what is likely the greatest offensive season ever. He threw for 29 more TDs than Cassell did the following season and had over 1,100 more yards.


As for this year....they averaged 20.3 ppg and 211 passing yards in the first 4 games....and 29.8 ppg and exactly 300 passing yards per game in the 8 played with Brady.


DEMONSTRABLY better in both scenarios.

To be fair when New England started Brissett they had performances of 97 passing yards and 187 passing yards. Plus one of those games they scored 0 points. The fall off was with Brissett not Garappolo. Yes, the Patriots would take a hit statistically compared to the starter by bringing in backup and it should be worse with a third string. The OP started a post about "201" as to why he was the greatest, yet a QB who didn't start since High School went 10-5 with them and his backup plus 3rd string this season w/o Gronk went 3-1 this in his absence.

The team went from 16-0....to 10-6.

A 4-game set of data is inconclusive at best. There's no denying that Bill is a great coach, but the differences statistically are stark, and the consistent winning is present under Brady.

They went 11-5. And if we are going by year by year success, Brady went 10-6 the following year with Moss and Welker. With comparable stats to Cassel in 2008.

All years aren't the same, as teams have an entire offseason to adjust. Hell we saw late in the season the Pats offense started to wind down off their early season high in 2007. And even in the short time Brady did play the terrible Chiefs they didn't score until the 2nd quarter when Cassel came in.

[elmerjfudd]

elmer btfo ITT by rob AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[thedangerouskitchen]

I'd spend time with statistics to prove to you how the Pats when run-heavy in '08 or how they've been demonstrably better offensively the last 8 games compared to the first 4 this season...

But I'm quite sure I'd be wasting my time talking to the brick wall that is TDK.

Cassell threw over 500 passes in 15 starts in 08... and NE went 3-1 under Garoppolo (2-0) and Brissett (1-1) this year.

Try again.

In 2008 the Pats ran the ball 513 times for 2,278 yards and 21 TDs. The 4th most attempts and 6th most yards in the NFL. They threw the ball 534 times for 3,569 yards...12th in attempts and 12th in yards. Keep in mind, the '08 team featured both Randy Moss and Wes Welker...so that was one of the more solid receiving casts in the NFL....and all they mustered was the 12th best passing offense.

In 2007...well...the Pats went 16-0 and Brady had what is likely the greatest offensive season ever. He threw for 29 more TDs than Cassell did the following season and had over 1,100 more yards.


As for this year....they averaged 20.3 ppg and 211 passing yards in the first 4 games....and 29.8 ppg and exactly 300 passing yards per game in the 8 played with Brady.


DEMONSTRABLY better in both scenarios.

If you're trying to argue Brady > Cassel, I would agree 100%... but you canNot ignore the fact that even a scrub like Cassel had a banner year in NE, while back-up QB Jimmy Garoppolo looked like, well, Tom Brady in this system.

[Robceltsfan]

Cassell threw over 500 passes in 15 starts in 08... and NE went 3-1 under Garoppolo (2-0) and Brissett (1-1) this year.

Try again.

In 2008 the Pats ran the ball 513 times for 2,278 yards and 21 TDs. The 4th most attempts and 6th most yards in the NFL. They threw the ball 534 times for 3,569 yards...12th in attempts and 12th in yards. Keep in mind, the '08 team featured both Randy Moss and Wes Welker...so that was one of the more solid receiving casts in the NFL....and all they mustered was the 12th best passing offense.

In 2007...well...the Pats went 16-0 and Brady had what is likely the greatest offensive season ever. He threw for 29 more TDs than Cassell did the following season and had over 1,100 more yards.


As for this year....they averaged 20.3 ppg and 211 passing yards in the first 4 games....and 29.8 ppg and exactly 300 passing yards per game in the 8 played with Brady.


DEMONSTRABLY better in both scenarios.

If you're trying to argue Brady > Cassel, I would agree 100%... but you canNot ignore the fact that even a scrub like Cassel had a banner year in NE, while back-up QB Jimmy Garoppolo looked like, well, Tom Brady in this system.

Neither of those opinions are true.


Truth be told, if Brady were a Bear and he'd had the same career as he's had in NE...you'd need a whole team of people to dislodged Brady's dick from your homer-esque mouth. But alas...he's not a Chicago player...so for you it's just another ho-hum bum.

[rileymartin]

Brady is the best QB of this generation, and probably number 2 all time...But, with the rules changes that have really favored the quarterbacks, there is no chance he will ever surpass Joe Montana...

[Robceltsfan]

Brady is the best QB of this generation, and probably number 2 all time...But, with the rules changes that have really favored the quarterbacks, there is no chance he will ever surpass Joe Montana...

What do rules changes have to do with anything? Comparatively speaking, Brady has been just as statistically dominant as Montana relative to their peers, he's been a more successful regular season QB, and he's AT LEAST as successful as Montana in the playoffs.

If anything, they're 1A/1B. Montana doesn't have a clear advantage anywhere.

[rileymartin]

Brady is the best QB of this generation, and probably number 2 all time...But, with the rules changes that have really favored the quarterbacks, there is no chance he will ever surpass Joe Montana...

What do rules changes have to do with anything? Comparatively speaking, Brady has been just as statistically dominant as Montana relative to their peers, he's been a more successful regular season QB, and he's AT LEAST as successful as Montana in the playoffs.

If anything, they're 1A/1B. Montana doesn't have a clear advantage anywhere.

What rules changes LOL? Jesus dude, did you just start watching football yesterday?