What would these greats of yore stat lines look like in today's NBA ?

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rtiff68
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Re: What would these greats of yore stat lines look like in today's NBA ?

Post by rtiff68 »

Master Spade wrote:
vcsgrizzfan wrote:
Master Spade wrote:Jordan: 42/11/10 on 57%

Even players that are not "All Time Greats" would be alot better in this NBA. Players like Arvydas Sabonis and Toni Kukoc come to mind. They were already used to this kind of basketball.

Put those 2 in today's NBA and watch out!!
The retards are out in full force ITT.
I agree. Those retards in this thread just can't handle the Truth. They just can't handle the fact that the rule changes since the 00's have inflated players individual #'s.


But let's have mercy on them.


8-)
1986-87 (Jordan's highest scoring year)

1) Jordan: 37.1ppg / 5.2rpg / 4.2apg; .482 fg%, 40.0mpg
2) Wilkins: 29.0ppg / 6.3rpg / 3.3apg; .463 fg%, 37.6mpg
3) English: 28.6ppg / 4.2rpg / 5.2apg; .503 fg%, 37.6mpg
4) Bird: 28.1ppg / 9.2rpg / 7.6apg; .525 fg%, 40.6mpg
5) Vandeweghe: 26.9ppg / 3.2rpg / 2.8apg; .523 fg%, 38.3mpg

2016-17 (the last full season we've had)

1) Westbrook: 31.6ppg / 10.7rpg / 10.0apg; .425 fg%, 34.6mpg
2) Harden: 29.1ppg / 8.1rpg / 11.2apg; .440 fg%; 36.4mpg
3) Thomas: 28.9ppg / 2.7rpg / 5.9apg; .463 fg%, 33.8mpg
4) Davis: 28.0ppg / 11.8rpg / 2.1apg; .505 fg%, 36.1mpg
5) DeRozan: 27.3ppg / 5.2rpg / 3.9apg; .467 fg%, 35.4mpg

I pulled these years somewhat randomly (outside of pulling Jordan's highest scoring year) and I didn't go beyond the top 5 because I didn't want to spend any more time on this.

There's several other factors I left out: pace, the 3 point shot (efficiency not comprehensively covered by fg%, etc.

That said, I feel comfortable saying that the notion that players' numbers are "grossly inflated" today as compared to the late '80's/'early '90's on net is about as factually/statistically accurate as the notion that "defenses were played by REAL men way back when!"

Spade is basically arguing that a guy like Jordan would have scored more points on higher efficiency while playing a few less mpg based upon the data above. Form your own opinion on that take...
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Re: What would these greats of yore stat lines look like in today's NBA ?

Post by thedangerouskitchen »

vcsgrizzfan wrote:
Sudanese Sensation wrote:
vcsgrizzfan wrote:
The retards are out in full force ITT.

:shock:
TDK and Master Spade at one end of the spectrum and Griff on the other. Equally stupid.
:lol: at bitch-tits pretending his opinion on a hypothetical question somehow holds merit over the opinion of others... what a pompous ass this little meatball is.

:L

:roll:
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."

"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
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Re: What would these greats of yore stat lines look like in today's NBA ?

Post by thedangerouskitchen »

Master Spade wrote:
vcsgrizzfan wrote:
Master Spade wrote:Jordan: 42/11/10 on 57%

Even players that are not "All Time Greats" would be alot better in this NBA. Players like Arvydas Sabonis and Toni Kukoc come to mind. They were already used to this kind of basketball.

Put those 2 in today's NBA and watch out!!
The retards are out in full force ITT.
I agree. Those retards in this thread just can't handle the Truth. They just can't handle the fact that the rule changes since the 00's have inflated players individual #'s.


But let's have mercy on them.


8-)
Westbrook is averaging 30 / 10 / 10 this year and last, Harden 30/7/10... hell, 33 year old LeBron is dropping 27/8/9/54% in his 15th season... yet meatball grizz thinks the GOAT MJ would put up basically the same numbers he did when the rules in place (during his time) made it much harder for perimeter players.

. :lol: no wonder bitch tits gets slapped around so often on this board.

:L
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."

"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
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Re: What would these greats of yore stat lines look like in today's NBA ?

Post by elmouse03 »

Jordan would average 100/100/100 easily.

:dealwithit:
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Re: What would these greats of yore stat lines look like in today's NBA ?

Post by vcsgrizzfan »

thedangerouskitchen wrote:
vcsgrizzfan wrote:
Sudanese Sensation wrote:

:shock:
TDK and Master Spade at one end of the spectrum and Griff on the other. Equally stupid.
:lol: at bitch-tits pretending his opinion on a hypothetical question somehow holds merit over the opinion of others... what a pompous ass this little meatball is.

:L

:roll:
You and Spade are always so objective with respect to anything MJ related.

TheDunningKruger is strong in your posts.
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Re: What would these greats of yore stat lines look like in today's NBA ?

Post by FPL »

Cool thread idea. Let me think about it. I think several players would be markedly different.
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Re: What would these greats of yore stat lines look like in today's NBA ?

Post by Sudanese Sensation »

vcsgrizzfan wrote:
thedangerouskitchen wrote:
vcsgrizzfan wrote:
TDK and Master Spade at one end of the spectrum and Griff on the other. Equally stupid.
:lol: at bitch-tits pretending his opinion on a hypothetical question somehow holds merit over the opinion of others... what a pompous ass this little meatball is.

:L

:roll:
You and Spade are always so objective with respect to anything MJ related.

TheDunningKruger is strong in your posts.

:)
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Re: What would these greats of yore stat lines look like in today's NBA ?

Post by FPL »

Okay, looking at each one:
Michael Jordan
It really depends on what kind of team he's on. If he's on a one-man-show type of team, I could see him averaging Westbrook numbers (but with better efficiency and defense, obviously). On a good team with a legit offense? I think Kawhi the last couple years is a poor-man's Jordan. Kawhi averaged 23.4/6.3/3.1 with 1.8 steals on .613 TS% the past couple years. I think MJ would look like 28/6/6 on .620 TS% on a good team, DPOY contender (unlikely he averages 30 because games would be over by the end of the third, like with Curry a few years ago).
Kareem
So Kareem had a shot nobody could block, and that wouldn't change now. He's a unique player, and I think he'd still be averaging 25+ on high efficiency. I think his rebound totals would be a bit lower though. He put up some big totals in high pace seasons, but in his books he complained about not having a rebounding PF a ton. I think he might average 10, but that isn't too impressive given his height. Depends on how far he plays from the basket.
Magic
Magic would be affected by the five-seconds-back-to-the-basket change (Mark Jackson rule), but I think he'd still be able to score at will. I think he could still be an 18-20 and 12-13 player, but I think given how good a scorer he was, today he'd probably be more of a 25-10 guy.
Wilt
I'm an admitted Wilt hater. His role his first few years was unsustainable, and had poor team results (the league was also mostly white until the mid-60s, and unlike Russell, Wilt's athleticism was more of the straight line variety, as in end-to-end, high vert; he wasn't mobile in the half court, or someone who could make second jumps, or who had lateral quickness). He also just wasn't a skilled low-post player (most of his baskets were at the rim or in transition, or on putbacks). On a bad team he could put up 30 (on <.500, kind of like a Cousins). On a good team? In his prime:

18/15/5 on .600 shooting (a better Marc Gasol before the 3)

as a defensive roleplayer later on:

10/15/3 on .700 shooting (a bigger DeAndre Jordan)
Bird
Built for this era, would average high 20s on .400 shooting with a ton of attempts, and would be a solid defender at the 4.
Olajuwon
I think he could still go supernova in the playoffs with a good matchup, but the goal would basically be to establish him in the post in the game early, and wait until he is doubled. Then use his gravity to get other players open.

Low 20s on nearly .600 shooting on a good team, with 10 rebounds, 3 blocks, 2 steals.

Any of these guys is capable of averaging 30 for a season, but on a good team, there's not really a point in having a guy score 30.
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Re: What would these greats of yore stat lines look like in today's NBA ?

Post by Master Spade »

rtiff68 wrote:
Master Spade wrote:
vcsgrizzfan wrote:
The retards are out in full force ITT.
I agree. Those retards in this thread just can't handle the Truth. They just can't handle the fact that the rule changes since the 00's have inflated players individual #'s.


But let's have mercy on them.


8-)
1986-87 (Jordan's highest scoring year)

1) Jordan: 37.1ppg / 5.2rpg / 4.2apg; .482 fg%, 40.0mpg
2) Wilkins: 29.0ppg / 6.3rpg / 3.3apg; .463 fg%, 37.6mpg
3) English: 28.6ppg / 4.2rpg / 5.2apg; .503 fg%, 37.6mpg
4) Bird: 28.1ppg / 9.2rpg / 7.6apg; .525 fg%, 40.6mpg
5) Vandeweghe: 26.9ppg / 3.2rpg / 2.8apg; .523 fg%, 38.3mpg

2016-17 (the last full season we've had)

1) Westbrook: 31.6ppg / 10.7rpg / 10.0apg; .425 fg%, 34.6mpg
2) Harden: 29.1ppg / 8.1rpg / 11.2apg; .440 fg%; 36.4mpg
3) Thomas: 28.9ppg / 2.7rpg / 5.9apg; .463 fg%, 33.8mpg
4) Davis: 28.0ppg / 11.8rpg / 2.1apg; .505 fg%, 36.1mpg
5) DeRozan: 27.3ppg / 5.2rpg / 3.9apg; .467 fg%, 35.4mpg

I pulled these years somewhat randomly (outside of pulling Jordan's highest scoring year) and I didn't go beyond the top 5 because I didn't want to spend any more time on this.

There's several other factors I left out: pace, the 3 point shot (efficiency not comprehensively covered by fg%, etc.

That said, I feel comfortable saying that the notion that players' numbers are "grossly inflated" today as compared to the late '80's/'early '90's on net is about as factually/statistically accurate as the notion that "defenses were played by REAL men way back when!"

Spade is basically arguing that a guy like Jordan would have scored more points on higher efficiency while playing a few less mpg based upon the data above. Form your own opinion on that take...
My main point is that with the Rule changes the NBA made starting in 2000, it now takes less skill/talent to put up numbers.

Perimeter players are not to be touched, making it easier to get past their defender. Then as they drive, there are no rim protectors like there were in the 80's and 90's.

Even players like K.Bryant agree. Kobe Bryant on 80/90s basketball - "The truth is, it makes the game [where] players have to be more skillful. Nowadays, literally anybody can get out there and get to the basket and you can't touch anybody. Back then, if guys put their hands on you, you had to have the skill to be able to go both ways, change direction, post up, you had to have a mid-range game because you didn't want to go all the way to the basket because you would get knocked ass over tea kettle. So I think playing the game back then required MUCH MORE SKILL."

Because of those rule changes, Phil Jackson - "Michael would average 45 with these rules."
Since Phil also coached Kobe and Shaq to all of their Finals MVPs, he has seen both sides.

So kobe and Phil agree with me.

8-)
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Re: What would these greats of yore stat lines look like in today's NBA ?

Post by Bush4Ever35 »

Magic seems to be the guy people have the most varied opinions about.
FPL wrote:
Wilt
I'm an admitted Wilt hater. His role his first few years was unsustainable, and had poor team results (the league was also mostly white until the mid-60s, and unlike Russell, Wilt's athleticism was more of the straight line variety, as in end-to-end, high vert; he wasn't mobile in the half court, or someone who could make second jumps, or who had lateral quickness). He also just wasn't a skilled low-post player (most of his baskets were at the rim or in transition, or on putbacks). On a bad team he could put up 30 (on <.500, kind of like a Cousins). On a good team? In his prime:

18/15/5 on .600 shooting (a better Marc Gasol before the 3)

as a defensive roleplayer later on:

10/15/3 on .700 shooting (a bigger DeAndre Jordan)
I liked the writeup Ben Taylor did on Wilt. I haven't read his book, but he said Wilt is pretty much *the* case study in individual vs. global offense (i.e.- extremely strong on the former, but surprisingly modest on the second).

He also said Wilt was very underrated defensively, which makes sense to me. Overrated offensively, underrated defensively.
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Re: What would these greats of yore stat lines look like in today's NBA ?

Post by rtiff68 »

Master Spade wrote:
rtiff68 wrote:
Master Spade wrote:
I agree. Those retards in this thread just can't handle the Truth. They just can't handle the fact that the rule changes since the 00's have inflated players individual #'s.


But let's have mercy on them.


8-)
1986-87 (Jordan's highest scoring year)

1) Jordan: 37.1ppg / 5.2rpg / 4.2apg; .482 fg%, 40.0mpg
2) Wilkins: 29.0ppg / 6.3rpg / 3.3apg; .463 fg%, 37.6mpg
3) English: 28.6ppg / 4.2rpg / 5.2apg; .503 fg%, 37.6mpg
4) Bird: 28.1ppg / 9.2rpg / 7.6apg; .525 fg%, 40.6mpg
5) Vandeweghe: 26.9ppg / 3.2rpg / 2.8apg; .523 fg%, 38.3mpg

2016-17 (the last full season we've had)

1) Westbrook: 31.6ppg / 10.7rpg / 10.0apg; .425 fg%, 34.6mpg
2) Harden: 29.1ppg / 8.1rpg / 11.2apg; .440 fg%; 36.4mpg
3) Thomas: 28.9ppg / 2.7rpg / 5.9apg; .463 fg%, 33.8mpg
4) Davis: 28.0ppg / 11.8rpg / 2.1apg; .505 fg%, 36.1mpg
5) DeRozan: 27.3ppg / 5.2rpg / 3.9apg; .467 fg%, 35.4mpg

I pulled these years somewhat randomly (outside of pulling Jordan's highest scoring year) and I didn't go beyond the top 5 because I didn't want to spend any more time on this.

There's several other factors I left out: pace, the 3 point shot (efficiency not comprehensively covered by fg%, etc.

That said, I feel comfortable saying that the notion that players' numbers are "grossly inflated" today as compared to the late '80's/'early '90's on net is about as factually/statistically accurate as the notion that "defenses were played by REAL men way back when!"

Spade is basically arguing that a guy like Jordan would have scored more points on higher efficiency while playing a few less mpg based upon the data above. Form your own opinion on that take...
My main point is that with the Rule changes the NBA made starting in 2000, it now takes less skill/talent to put up numbers.

Perimeter players are not to be touched, making it easier to get past their defender. Then as they drive, there are no rim protectors like there were in the 80's and 90's.

Even players like K.Bryant agree. Kobe Bryant on 80/90s basketball - "The truth is, it makes the game [where] players have to be more skillful. Nowadays, literally anybody can get out there and get to the basket and you can't touch anybody. Back then, if guys put their hands on you, you had to have the skill to be able to go both ways, change direction, post up, you had to have a mid-range game because you didn't want to go all the way to the basket because you would get knocked ass over tea kettle. So I think playing the game back then required MUCH MORE SKILL."

Because of those rule changes, Phil Jackson - "Michael would average 45 with these rules."
Since Phil also coached Kobe and Shaq to all of their Finals MVPs, he has seen both sides.

So kobe and Phil agree with me.

8-)
I just want to point one thing out: despite all the empirical evidence, you are now leveraging a single quote from a player you have spent over decade discrediting to "prove" your point.

Think about that for a minute, man.
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Re: What would these greats of yore stat lines look like in today's NBA ?

Post by vcsgrizzfan »

rtiff68 wrote:
Master Spade wrote:
rtiff68 wrote:
1986-87 (Jordan's highest scoring year)

1) Jordan: 37.1ppg / 5.2rpg / 4.2apg; .482 fg%, 40.0mpg
2) Wilkins: 29.0ppg / 6.3rpg / 3.3apg; .463 fg%, 37.6mpg
3) English: 28.6ppg / 4.2rpg / 5.2apg; .503 fg%, 37.6mpg
4) Bird: 28.1ppg / 9.2rpg / 7.6apg; .525 fg%, 40.6mpg
5) Vandeweghe: 26.9ppg / 3.2rpg / 2.8apg; .523 fg%, 38.3mpg

2016-17 (the last full season we've had)

1) Westbrook: 31.6ppg / 10.7rpg / 10.0apg; .425 fg%, 34.6mpg
2) Harden: 29.1ppg / 8.1rpg / 11.2apg; .440 fg%; 36.4mpg
3) Thomas: 28.9ppg / 2.7rpg / 5.9apg; .463 fg%, 33.8mpg
4) Davis: 28.0ppg / 11.8rpg / 2.1apg; .505 fg%, 36.1mpg
5) DeRozan: 27.3ppg / 5.2rpg / 3.9apg; .467 fg%, 35.4mpg

I pulled these years somewhat randomly (outside of pulling Jordan's highest scoring year) and I didn't go beyond the top 5 because I didn't want to spend any more time on this.

There's several other factors I left out: pace, the 3 point shot (efficiency not comprehensively covered by fg%, etc.

That said, I feel comfortable saying that the notion that players' numbers are "grossly inflated" today as compared to the late '80's/'early '90's on net is about as factually/statistically accurate as the notion that "defenses were played by REAL men way back when!"

Spade is basically arguing that a guy like Jordan would have scored more points on higher efficiency while playing a few less mpg based upon the data above. Form your own opinion on that take...
My main point is that with the Rule changes the NBA made starting in 2000, it now takes less skill/talent to put up numbers.

Perimeter players are not to be touched, making it easier to get past their defender. Then as they drive, there are no rim protectors like there were in the 80's and 90's.

Even players like K.Bryant agree. Kobe Bryant on 80/90s basketball - "The truth is, it makes the game [where] players have to be more skillful. Nowadays, literally anybody can get out there and get to the basket and you can't touch anybody. Back then, if guys put their hands on you, you had to have the skill to be able to go both ways, change direction, post up, you had to have a mid-range game because you didn't want to go all the way to the basket because you would get knocked ass over tea kettle. So I think playing the game back then required MUCH MORE SKILL."

Because of those rule changes, Phil Jackson - "Michael would average 45 with these rules."
Since Phil also coached Kobe and Shaq to all of their Finals MVPs, he has seen both sides.

So kobe and Phil agree with me.

8-)
I just want to point one thing out: despite all the empirical evidence, you are now leveraging a single quote from a player you have spent over decade discrediting to "prove" your point.

Think about that for a minute, man.
And handcheck enforcement didn't start till the 2005/06 season, not 2000.
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Re: What would these greats of yore stat lines look like in today's NBA ?

Post by AbeVigodaLive »

vcsgrizzfan wrote:
rtiff68 wrote:
Master Spade wrote:
My main point is that with the Rule changes the NBA made starting in 2000, it now takes less skill/talent to put up numbers.

Perimeter players are not to be touched, making it easier to get past their defender. Then as they drive, there are no rim protectors like there were in the 80's and 90's.

Even players like K.Bryant agree. Kobe Bryant on 80/90s basketball - "The truth is, it makes the game [where] players have to be more skillful. Nowadays, literally anybody can get out there and get to the basket and you can't touch anybody. Back then, if guys put their hands on you, you had to have the skill to be able to go both ways, change direction, post up, you had to have a mid-range game because you didn't want to go all the way to the basket because you would get knocked ass over tea kettle. So I think playing the game back then required MUCH MORE SKILL."

Because of those rule changes, Phil Jackson - "Michael would average 45 with these rules."
Since Phil also coached Kobe and Shaq to all of their Finals MVPs, he has seen both sides.

So kobe and Phil agree with me.

8-)
I just want to point one thing out: despite all the empirical evidence, you are now leveraging a single quote from a player you have spent over decade discrediting to "prove" your point.

Think about that for a minute, man.
And handcheck enforcement didn't start till the 2005/06 season, not 2000.
Wasn't it 2004/2005... Nash's first in Phoenix... ?
Sorry to quibble.
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Re: What would these greats of yore stat lines look like in today's NBA ?

Post by thedangerouskitchen »

vcsgrizzfan wrote:
thedangerouskitchen wrote:
vcsgrizzfan wrote:
TDK and Master Spade at one end of the spectrum and Griff on the other. Equally stupid.
:lol: at bitch-tits pretending his opinion on a hypothetical question somehow holds merit over the opinion of others... what a pompous ass this little meatball is.

:L

:roll:
You and Spade are always so objective with respect to anything MJ related.

TheDunningKruger is strong in your posts.
You've got 33-year old LeBron in his 15th season averaging 27/8/9/54%, James Harden averaging 30/7/10 since last season, Westbrook averaging a 30-point Triple Double since the start of last year... and you think you're being objective by claiming the GOAT would average around 30/6/5 in today's era.

:lol:

That's not being objective meatball, that's being a complete idiot.

:L
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."

"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
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Re: What would these greats of yore stat lines look like in today's NBA ?

Post by rtiff68 »

thedangerouskitchen wrote:
vcsgrizzfan wrote:
thedangerouskitchen wrote:
:lol: at bitch-tits pretending his opinion on a hypothetical question somehow holds merit over the opinion of others... what a pompous ass this little meatball is.

:L

:roll:
You and Spade are always so objective with respect to anything MJ related.

TheDunningKruger is strong in your posts.
You've got 33-year old LeBron in his 15th season averaging 27/8/9/54%, James Harden averaging 30/7/10 since last season, Westbrook averaging a 30-point Triple Double since the start of last year... and you think you're being objective by claiming the GOAT would average around 30/6/5 in today's era.

:lol:

That's not being objective meatball, that's being a complete idiot.

:L
You should change your screen name, go to another hoops site anonymously, and see how much your views are “respected.”

You Griff are clearly just prosecuted here— oh the torture!
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Re: What would these greats of yore stat lines look like in today's NBA ?

Post by vcsgrizzfan »

AbeVigodaLive wrote:
vcsgrizzfan wrote:
rtiff68 wrote:
I just want to point one thing out: despite all the empirical evidence, you are now leveraging a single quote from a player you have spent over decade discrediting to "prove" your point.

Think about that for a minute, man.
And handcheck enforcement didn't start till the 2005/06 season, not 2000.
Wasn't it 2004/2005... Nash's first in Phoenix... ?
Sorry to quibble.
I think that's when it went on the books, but real enforcement wasn't till 2005-2006 season.

That's when things went nuts. Every single wing player in the top ten in scoring had new career highs in points but even more telling, FTAs. All but two had new highs in FG% and so on. That's the Wade Finals where he just paraded to the line.

Thankfully, it's not called anywhere near that closely anymore because that was goofy. Between defenses adjusting and the league officiating it more loosely, I think we've got a pretty good balance now.
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Re: What would these greats of yore stat lines look like in today's NBA ?

Post by AbeVigodaLive »

vcsgrizzfan wrote:
AbeVigodaLive wrote:
vcsgrizzfan wrote:
And handcheck enforcement didn't start till the 2005/06 season, not 2000.
Wasn't it 2004/2005... Nash's first in Phoenix... ?
Sorry to quibble.
I think that's when it went on the books, but real enforcement wasn't till 2005-2006 season.

That's when things went nuts. Every single wing player in the top ten in scoring had new career highs in points but even more telling, FTAs. All but two had new highs in FG% and so on. That's the Wade Finals where he just paraded to the line.

Thankfully, it's not called anywhere near that closely anymore because that was goofy. Between defenses adjusting and the league officiating it more loosely, I think we've got a pretty good balance now.

Yes. The 2006 Finals are a bit of a travesty.
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Re: What would these greats of yore stat lines look like in today's NBA ?

Post by Master Spade »

rtiff68 wrote:
Master Spade wrote:
rtiff68 wrote:
1986-87 (Jordan's highest scoring year)

1) Jordan: 37.1ppg / 5.2rpg / 4.2apg; .482 fg%, 40.0mpg
2) Wilkins: 29.0ppg / 6.3rpg / 3.3apg; .463 fg%, 37.6mpg
3) English: 28.6ppg / 4.2rpg / 5.2apg; .503 fg%, 37.6mpg
4) Bird: 28.1ppg / 9.2rpg / 7.6apg; .525 fg%, 40.6mpg
5) Vandeweghe: 26.9ppg / 3.2rpg / 2.8apg; .523 fg%, 38.3mpg

2016-17 (the last full season we've had)

1) Westbrook: 31.6ppg / 10.7rpg / 10.0apg; .425 fg%, 34.6mpg
2) Harden: 29.1ppg / 8.1rpg / 11.2apg; .440 fg%; 36.4mpg
3) Thomas: 28.9ppg / 2.7rpg / 5.9apg; .463 fg%, 33.8mpg
4) Davis: 28.0ppg / 11.8rpg / 2.1apg; .505 fg%, 36.1mpg
5) DeRozan: 27.3ppg / 5.2rpg / 3.9apg; .467 fg%, 35.4mpg

I pulled these years somewhat randomly (outside of pulling Jordan's highest scoring year) and I didn't go beyond the top 5 because I didn't want to spend any more time on this.

There's several other factors I left out: pace, the 3 point shot (efficiency not comprehensively covered by fg%, etc.

That said, I feel comfortable saying that the notion that players' numbers are "grossly inflated" today as compared to the late '80's/'early '90's on net is about as factually/statistically accurate as the notion that "defenses were played by REAL men way back when!"

Spade is basically arguing that a guy like Jordan would have scored more points on higher efficiency while playing a few less mpg based upon the data above. Form your own opinion on that take...
My main point is that with the Rule changes the NBA made starting in 2000, it now takes less skill/talent to put up numbers.

Perimeter players are not to be touched, making it easier to get past their defender. Then as they drive, there are no rim protectors like there were in the 80's and 90's.

Even players like K.Bryant agree. Kobe Bryant on 80/90s basketball - "The truth is, it makes the game [where] players have to be more skillful. Nowadays, literally anybody can get out there and get to the basket and you can't touch anybody. Back then, if guys put their hands on you, you had to have the skill to be able to go both ways, change direction, post up, you had to have a mid-range game because you didn't want to go all the way to the basket because you would get knocked ass over tea kettle. So I think playing the game back then required MUCH MORE SKILL."

Because of those rule changes, Phil Jackson - "Michael would average 45 with these rules."
Since Phil also coached Kobe and Shaq to all of their Finals MVPs, he has seen both sides.

So kobe and Phil agree with me.

8-)
I just want to point one thing out: despite all the empirical evidence, you are now leveraging a single quote from a player you have spent over decade discrediting to "prove" your point.

Think about that for a minute, man.
Oh trust me, it is way more than just kobe that thinks that same thing.

As for me "discrediting" kobe, I only stated facts about him when his kids said he would become the "GOAT". He didn't, which I told them. Even back then, I told them that kobe was an All Time Great, just not nearly as great as they hoped.

As for the rules, they Started implementing new rules in the 99-00 season. After that they kept changing the rules until getting rid of the hand check completely in 04 or 05, can't remember which exactly.
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elmouse03
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Re: What would these greats of yore stat lines look like in today's NBA ?

Post by elmouse03 »

AbeVigodaLive wrote:
vcsgrizzfan wrote:
AbeVigodaLive wrote:
Wasn't it 2004/2005... Nash's first in Phoenix... ?
Sorry to quibble.
I think that's when it went on the books, but real enforcement wasn't till 2005-2006 season.

That's when things went nuts. Every single wing player in the top ten in scoring had new career highs in points but even more telling, FTAs. All but two had new highs in FG% and so on. That's the Wade Finals where he just paraded to the line.

Thankfully, it's not called anywhere near that closely anymore because that was goofy. Between defenses adjusting and the league officiating it more loosely, I think we've got a pretty good balance now.

Yes. The 2006 Finals are a bit of a travesty.
What? Wade averaging a million free throw attempts a game was just a random coincidence.
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vcsgrizzfan
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Re: What would these greats of yore stat lines look like in today's NBA ?

Post by vcsgrizzfan »

Master Spade wrote:
rtiff68 wrote:
Master Spade wrote:
My main point is that with the Rule changes the NBA made starting in 2000, it now takes less skill/talent to put up numbers.

Perimeter players are not to be touched, making it easier to get past their defender. Then as they drive, there are no rim protectors like there were in the 80's and 90's.

Even players like K.Bryant agree. Kobe Bryant on 80/90s basketball - "The truth is, it makes the game [where] players have to be more skillful. Nowadays, literally anybody can get out there and get to the basket and you can't touch anybody. Back then, if guys put their hands on you, you had to have the skill to be able to go both ways, change direction, post up, you had to have a mid-range game because you didn't want to go all the way to the basket because you would get knocked ass over tea kettle. So I think playing the game back then required MUCH MORE SKILL."

Because of those rule changes, Phil Jackson - "Michael would average 45 with these rules."
Since Phil also coached Kobe and Shaq to all of their Finals MVPs, he has seen both sides.

So kobe and Phil agree with me.

8-)
I just want to point one thing out: despite all the empirical evidence, you are now leveraging a single quote from a player you have spent over decade discrediting to "prove" your point.

Think about that for a minute, man.
Oh trust me, it is way more than just kobe that thinks that same thing.

As for me "discrediting" kobe, I only stated facts about him when his kids said he would become the "GOAT". He didn't, which I told them. Even back then, I told them that kobe was an All Time Great, just not nearly as great as they hoped.

As for the rules, they Started implementing new rules in the 99-00 season. After that they kept changing the rules until getting rid of the hand check completely in 04 or 05, can't remember which exactly.
You have no rational argument. You simply took numbers out of your ass and are making shit up as you go along. Were those 2004 Pistons handcuffed defensively by those "new rules" you are blathering about. The only one that mattered was handcheck as far as really helping offenses, and those while implemented for the 05 season, weren't enforced till 2006 season. And that's been significantly relaxed since then.
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