Bush4Ever's Official All-Time Great Basketball Draft Event!

[elmouse03]

ISH knows what’s up.

[Lamelo_Ball]

I set up the two threads here:

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewto ... &t=1681772" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showth ... st13248235" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I might not be posting much this week (family stuff could pop up...or out), but here they are.

I'll let them run until 8PM ET, then tally the votes and announce the winners (Gold, Silver, Bronze style)

[Lamelo_Ball]

what a failure

[Lamelo_Ball]

@AlaskaHawks


please post our team in those 2 threads

[Lamelo_Ball]

Griff
C: Bill Russell (‘63-‘64), 1995-96 Gheorghe Muresan (‘95-‘96)
PF: Lebron James (‘12-‘13)
SF: Tracy Mcgrady(‘02-‘03), 1991-92 Chris Mullin (‘91-‘92)
SG: Drazen petrovic (‘92-‘93)
PG: 'Pistol' Pete Maravich (‘75-‘76), Chauncey Billups (‘05-‘06)

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewto ... &t=1681772" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showth ... st13248235" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

@FPL if you or hawks could post this team in these 2 threads it would really be appreciated

[FPL]

C - Hakeem Olajuwon (‘93-‘94), Bill Walton (85-86)
PF - Andrei Kirilenko (03-04)
SF - Kawhi Leonard (15-16), Andre Iguodala (11-12)
SG - Dwyane Wade (‘05-‘06) , Nate McMillan (93-94)
PG - Michael Cooper (86-87)

The Stars

In these drafts, my goal in the first round was to get a guy who:

(1) Can score at will one-on-one in (nearly) any matchup and draw doubles.
(2) Is an able and willing passer capable of taking advantage of said doubles.
(3) Can anchor my defense ideally (big man), or be a big part of it (perimeter player).

I think I did a pretty good job in Hakeem. He's not really an outside the box pick and will nearly always go in the first rounds in these types of drafts, but I think he holds up pretty well. His defensive ability speaks for itself.

A poster on RealGM did some player tracking a few years ago on peak (93, 94, 95) Hakeem (among other players). He looked at all the available games, and found that he scored on his post ups, on very high volume, at 51.7%, and 1.13 PPP. He drew 170 fouls on 971 plays, and at the line during this period he was a .751 shooter (.754 at the playoffs), so he wasn't a liability. There is perhaps some sample bias at play, but consider that the bulk of the games (50 of 58 games) were during the playoffs, so it shouldn't be an issue.

For comparison's sake, peak Shaq was a .98 PPP player on post-ups, at 48%. Now this also potentially has a sample bias, though these are all playoffs games. To help give context, I dumped all of the Synergy data on post-ups since they started tracking (04-05 thru 16-17), download here. Very rarely will you see players on high volume above .90 PPP, let alone above .95 PPP, which Shaq exceeds, and Olajuwon laps by a mile, in a playoff-heavy sample. I don't want to get too bogged down in the specifics, but my point is that Hakeem is a player who can score in the post one-on-one.

My model was based on the 94-95 Rockets (with Clyde Drexler), and the 04-05 & 05-06 Miami Heat (with Dwyana Wade). In all of these iterations, the goal was to force the other team to double Olajuwon (or O'Neal) early and often, and let the perimeter player dominate with the opposing center busy (and usually helped by another player soft-doubling the entry pass, which will open up perimeter players to take advantage of cuts and open threes).

Now, if there was a shortcoming of the Shaq-Wade Heat, it was that Shaq could not step out and hit a jumper. That was not an issue for Hakeem, who for the sample tracked above, was 44.1% from midrange, and 52.5% on spot-up jumpers in general. These numbers line up with the official figures from stats.nba.com (here are the official numbers for his final three seasons as a starter):

97: 248-572 in 78 games (.434 on 7.3 per game) regular season ; 39-83 in 16 games (.470 on 5.2 per game) playoffs
98: 120-294 in 47 games (.408 on 6.3 per game) regular season ; 15-44 in 5 games (.341 on 8.8 per game) playoffs
99: 144-320 in 50 games (.450 on 6.4 per game) regular season ; 13-29 in 4 games (.448 on 7.3 per game) playoffs

97-99: 512-1186 in 175 games (.432 on 6.8 per game) regular season ; 67-156 in 25 games (.429 on 6.2 per game)

So he was a player who could take advantage of kick-out when Wade drove to the basket. Now how about Wade that year? This is a guy who could dominate on high volume. During the regular season, he attempted 25 shots 9 times:

Code: Select all

Rk	MP	FG	FGA
▼	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	TOV	PTS
1	42:56	18	36	.500	1	4	.250	7	9	.778	1	44
2	41:25	14	29	.483	1	4	.250	4	7	.571	3	33
3	41:28	14	29	.483	1	2	.500	7	8	.875	5	36
4	42:53	12	27	.444	0	3	.000	8	9	.889	2	32
5	47:02	15	27	.556	0	1	.000	11	13	.846	2	41
6	42:39	15	27	.556	0	1	.000	7	9	.778	0	37
7	45:09	11	26	.423	0	0		13	18	.722	2	35
8	41:26	12	26	.462	0	0		8	8	1.000	5	32
9	42:09	12	25	.480	0	2	.000	5	7	.714	5	29
10	39:31	11	24	.458	0	0		7	9	.778	10	29
11	42:26	11	24	.458	0	3	.000	12	16	.750	1	34
12	39:41	10	24	.417	2	3	.667	13	14	.929	3	35
13	40:25	10	23	.435	0	1	.000	5	6	.833	2	25
14	42:33	10	23	.435	0	0		17	21	.810	5	37
15	39:32	12	23	.522	0	2	.000	13	15	.867	5	37

On an average of 26.2 FGA in these games, Wade averaged 34.4 PPG. Why is this important? When it mattered the most, down 2-0 in the finals:

Code: Select all

Rk	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	TOV	PTS
20	43:05	14	26	.538	1	2	.500	13	18	.722	1	42
21	39:38	13	23	.565	2	5	.400	8	9	.889	4	36
22	50:06	11	28	.393	0	2	.000	21	25	.840	3	43
23	45:24	10	18	.556	0	0		16	21	.762	5	36

would average 23.75 in the final four games, and 39.25 PPG.

Both Hakeem and Wade got to the line a lot. During the regular season, they combine for (4.9+8.4)/(6.8+10.7) = 17.5 FTA/g on .760 shooting, and in the playoffs (5.6+8.8)/(7.0+10.9) = 17.9 FTA/g on .804 shooting. Neither guy is automatic, but you'd probably think twice about fouling either.

The Rest

I had five goals when filling out the rest of my team:

(1) Make sure I have as many quality shooters as possible.
(2) Have a secondary ball-handler and playmaker who can play off-ball with Wade.
(3) Have as much size and defense as possible.
(4) Get athletes who can run the break.
(5) Draft another big who doesn't need touches for big lineups.

Going player by player-

Michael Cooper (86-87):

(1) .385 on 2.8 3PA/g regular season, .486 on 3.9 3PA/g playoffs
(2) Backed up Magic during the 80s to great success.
(3) 6'5", DPOY, 1st team all-defense.
(4) Great dunker, quick in the open court.

Nate McMillan (93-94)

(1) .391 on 1.8 3PA/g regular season, .364 on 2.2 3PA/g playoffs
(2) Backed up Gary Payton, team didn't drop off (led the league in +/- that year).
(3) 6'5", 2nd team all-defense, averaged 3.0 steals per game

Kawhi Leonard (15-16)

(1) .443 on 4.0 3PA/g regular season, .436 on 3.9 3PA/g playoffs.
(3) 6'7", DPOY, 1st team all-defense.

Andre Iguodala (11-12)

(1) .394 on 3.1 3PA/g regular season, .388 on 3.8 3PA/g playoffs
(2) Primary ball-handler on those Sixers teams, and in Golden State has played PG in the lineup of death
(3) 6'6", more athletic than the version that won FMVP for guarding LeBron
(4) Dunk contest runner-up a few years earlier

Andrei Kirilenko (03-04)

(1) .338 on 2.6 3PA/g regular season, missed playoffs
(3) 2nd team all-defense, among league leaders in both blocks and steals, 5x5 machine

Bill Walton (85-86)

He fills need (5). He's also a beast playmaker and defender (all-defense 1st team at his peak, likely DPOY had it existed). Great video of him and Bird passing on the 86 team:

phpBB [video]

Strategy

I mostly outlined this above, but I want Hakeem to score until he's doubled. If you don't stop doubling him? He's going to keep scoring. If you do? Wade is going to go nuts. Double both? There's going to be at least one other playmaker on the floor, and 2-3 consistent shooters. Good luck.

When Hakeem has the ball, there won't be too much ball-movement, though once the scoring threat is established, and when Hakeem is off the floor, there will be a lot of cutting. For the most part the players on my team didn't play in super sophisticated team offenses during the course of their careers, but with top-levels stars you can probably get away with it.

Wade is at his athletic peak at this point, but I don't want him to get tired chasing guys around. He's probably going to be hidden on the weakest offensive player on the other team, and might play free safety at time so he can get in transition. Since we don't have the biggest frontcourt, we're going to focus more on transition defense than on crashing the boards. I'm thinking of this kind of rotation:

C - Hakeem Olajuwon (36 MPG), Bill Walton (18 MPG)
PF - Andrei Kirilenko (36 MPG), Hakeem Olajuwon (6 MPG), Kawhi Leonard (6 MPG)
SF - Kawhi Leonard (30 MPG), Andre Iguodala (18 MPG)
SG - Dwyane Wade (40 MPG), Andre Iguodala (8 MPG)
PG - Michael Cooper (30 MPG), Nate McMillan (18 MPG)

Strengths

-Elite inside-outside scoring game from Hakeem and Wade.
-Solid shooting, decent spacing. Should have 2 shooters all of the time, 3 some of the time.
-Good defenders up-and-down the lineup, plenty of size and speed.
-Decent backup play-making and ball-handling
-No cancer-type players. Iguodala and Cooper are great glue guys.

Weaknesses

-Not much ball-movement, no motion offense installed.
-Walton was probably a bad pick, should've went with a PF at backup. Hakeem and Leonard are both poor fits at the 4, those 12 minutes will suck.
-Don't have an answer to twin-tower lineups, and the offensive boards might be vulnerable.
-I don't really have an elite 3pt shooter. All of these guys can hit the shot, but I chose good shooting years for guys who aren't dominant shooters.

I think that's everything. Best of luck everyone.

Griff
C: Bill Russell (‘63-‘64), 1995-96 Gheorghe Muresan (‘95-‘96)
PF: Lebron James (‘12-‘13)
SF: Tracy Mcgrady(‘02-‘03), 1991-92 Chris Mullin (‘91-‘92)
SG: Drazen petrovic (‘92-‘93)
PG: 'Pistol' Pete Maravich (‘75-‘76), Chauncey Billups (‘05-‘06)

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewto ... &t=1681772" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showth ... st13248235" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

@FPL if you or hawks could post this team in these 2 threads it would really be appreciated

I randomized my password for both sites, and deleted the email I used to recover so I wouldn't be tempted to go back, so can't really access either board.

[Lamelo_Ball]

phpBB [video]

[Robceltsfan]

Griff, if you hadn't been such a whiny cunt during the entire process, you'd still be in this.

[Lamelo_Ball]

Griff, if you hadn't been such a whiny cunt during the entire process, you'd still be in this.

your threads are failing because you left my team out... pretty funny TBH

[Robceltsfan]

Griff, if you hadn't been such a whiny cunt during the entire process, you'd still be in this.

your threads are failing because you left my team out... pretty funny TBH

And the only butthurt person is still you.

[Lamelo_Ball]

Griff, if you hadn't been such a whiny cunt during the entire process, you'd still be in this.

your threads are failing because you left my team out... pretty funny TBH

And the only butthurt person is still you.

why would i be mad that bush is failing on realgm and ISH.. this is hilarious

[Robceltsfan]

your threads are failing because you left my team out... pretty funny TBH

And the only butthurt person is still you.

why would i be mad that bush is failing on realgm and ISH.. this is hilarious

You continue to be angry that you've become ostracized and ridiculed by this community daily. You're an outsider....looked down upon....and merely tolerated here.

[Lamelo_Ball]

And the only butthurt person is still you.

why would i be mad that bush is failing on realgm and ISH.. this is hilarious

You continue to be angry that you've become ostracized and ridiculed by this community daily. You're an outsider....looked down upon....and merely tolerated here.

denial is a wonderful thing

revisionist history at its finest

i find this utterly hilarious because i destroyed bush by undercutting him with my poll on AG and finishing 3rd

then vindicated by nobody on realgm or ISH participating and the few responses saying whoever had lebron/russell won



as for my place among this community. i've never tried to be an insider. i've never tried to be looked up to. and i've never tried being tolerated let alone beloved... the fact that i am tolerated only shows just how needed and appreciated i am considering i've done nothing but go against every acceptable tone or fashion that others hold dearest


every time me and you have butted heads on here the once seemingly overwhelming outnumbered isolated feeling i gleefully accept as norm vanishes completely.

talk about being an outsider. guys that are my mortal enemies on here rush to my side when its a decision between backing me or you.

thats a more telling narrative that you should be concerned about

[Bush4Ever35]

It's sad when you have so little going on in life that this type of thing would seriously move your needle one way or the other.

[Lamelo_Ball]

It's sad when you have so little going on in life that this type of thing would seriously move your needle one way or the other.

its moved yours enough to ruin your own league and chances at other forums voting by blackballing my team


you worked quite a bit on this thing after taking over. just throwing it all away to spite me? thats some serious feelings of abandonment you're holding onto

[Bush4Ever35]

its moved yours enough to ruin your own league and chances at other forums voting by blackballing my team

you worked quite a bit on this thing after taking over. just throwing it all away to spite me? thats some serious feelings of abandonment you're holding onto

I sometimes wonder what it's like to live inside your head.

It's like you have almost no connection to reality sometimes, even in troll mode.

[Robceltsfan]

why would i be mad that bush is failing on realgm and ISH.. this is hilarious

You continue to be angry that you've become ostracized and ridiculed by this community daily. You're an outsider....looked down upon....and merely tolerated here.

denial is a wonderful thing

revisionist history at its finest

i find this utterly hilarious because i destroyed bush by undercutting him with my poll on AG and finishing 3rd

then vindicated by nobody on realgm or ISH participating and the few responses saying whoever had lebron/russell won



as for my place among this community. i've never tried to be an insider. i've never tried to be looked up to. and i've never tried being tolerated let alone beloved... the fact that i am tolerated only shows just how needed and appreciated i am considering i've done nothing but go against every acceptable tone or fashion that others hold dearest


every time me and you have butted heads on here the once seemingly overwhelming outnumbered isolated feeling i gleefully accept as norm vanishes completely.

talk about being an outsider. guys that are my mortal enemies on here rush to my side when its a decision between backing me or you.

thats a more telling narrative that you should be concerned about

There's pretty much only one subject where you get any backing on here at all....and that's Kobe, for obvious reasons. And that doesn't "concern" me one bit.

[vcsgrizzfan]

why would i be mad that bush is failing on realgm and ISH.. this is hilarious

You continue to be angry that you've become ostracized and ridiculed by this community daily. You're an outsider....looked down upon....and merely tolerated here.

denial is a wonderful thing

revisionist history at its finest

i find this utterly hilarious because i destroyed bush by undercutting him with my poll on AG and finishing 3rd

then vindicated by nobody on realgm or ISH participating and the few responses saying whoever had lebron/russell won



as for my place among this community. i've never tried to be an insider. i've never tried to be looked up to. and i've never tried being tolerated let alone beloved... the fact that i am tolerated only shows just how needed and appreciated i am considering i've done nothing but go against every acceptable tone or fashion that others hold dearest


every time me and you have butted heads on here the once seemingly overwhelming outnumbered isolated feeling i gleefully accept as norm vanishes completely.

talk about being an outsider. guys that are my mortal enemies on here rush to my side when its a decision between backing me or you.

thats a more telling narrative that you should be concerned about

The coffee mug on my desk has more self awareness than you Griff. You have absolutely no idea how deluded you are. None. Keep going through life thinking people envy you when they feel nothing more than pity and disdain.

[AlaskaHawks]

Posted on RealGM. I guess I no longer have my ISH account. Don't feel like creating one just for this.

[Johnnyblazzed]

I set up the two threads here:

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewto ... &t=1681772" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showth ... st13248235" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I might not be posting much this week (family stuff could pop up...or out), but here they are.

I'll let them run until 8PM ET, then tally the votes and announce the winners (Gold, Silver, Bronze style)

Congrats!