kinda feel sorry for Isiah Thomas. he should be a top 10 player ever ahead of lebron

[AbeVigodaLive]

Not really...Guys like Magic, Bird, Jordan, and even LeBron made their situations the right place because they were that dominant. Thomas was good, but he was simply a piece to the puzzle. The reality is, guys like Mahorn, Dumars, and even Lambeer where every bit as integral as Thomas was in Chuck Daly's system...

Mahorn and Lambeer where the enforcers that did the dirty work...They were the heart and soul of those Piston defenses...

Repeat...

The Pistons won one title with Mahorn as a 7/7 guy.
And another title with Mahorn playing in Philadelphia.

And Rick Mahorn actually saw his time/production fall in the playoffs... averaging fewer minutes and only 6/5.


Riley thinks the Pistons won a title because Mahorn was on the team... AND not on the team?

[Lonzo_Ball]

Not really...Guys like Magic, Bird, Jordan, and even LeBron made their situations the right place because they were that dominant. Thomas was good, but he was simply a piece to the puzzle. The reality is, guys like Mahorn, Dumars, and even Lambeer where every bit as integral as Thomas was in Chuck Daly's system...

Mahorn and Lambeer where the enforcers that did the dirty work...They were the heart and soul of those Piston defenses...

the 90's bulls were mainly a defensive team... that was how they beat everyone. their 2 most important front court defenders were dennis rodman and scottie pippen

they handled the true tests of shaq/malone/kemp during those runs


i guess 3 of jordans rings are bogus

[rileymartin]

Mahorn and Lambeer where the enforcers that did the dirty work...They were the heart and soul of those Piston defenses...

Repeat...

The Pistons won one title with Mahorn as a 7/7 guy.
And another title with Mahorn playing in Philadelphia.

And Rick Mahorn actually saw his time/production fall in the playoffs... averaging fewer minutes and only 6/5.


Riley thinks the Pistons won a title because Mahorn was on the team... AND not on the team?

No, I think the Pistons won a title because the Pistons had guys like Lambeer, Mahorn and Rodman who gave no fucks on the basketball court.

[Y2K]

Zeke is simply the beneficiary of being in the right place at the right time. The TRUE MVP of those Pistons is Chuck Daly and his revolutionary style of defense he employed.

You can say that (right place right time) about other athletes also.
Isiah was putting up numbers when he and Kelly Tripucka were the lead dogs in Detroit.

Chuck Daly and the Pistons started going defense with the drafting of Dumars, Rodman, Salley, etc. This hurt Zeke's numbers slightly as the Pistons weren't as explosive offensively.

Isiah had many memorable playoff games and series and was the leader of the 2 time champion Pistons.

He is not on the MJ, Magic, Bird, Kareem, etc level but is right under them.

He's not even right under them. He's way behind them.

[Lonzo_Ball]

according to riley... the 96-98 bulls are pippen and rodmans teams

jordan was just along for the ride

[AbeVigodaLive]

Not really...Guys like Magic, Bird, Jordan, and even LeBron made their situations the right place because they were that dominant. Thomas was good, but he was simply a piece to the puzzle. The reality is, guys like Mahorn, Dumars, and even Lambeer where every bit as integral as Thomas was in Chuck Daly's system...

The Pistons won one title with Mahorn as a 7/7 guy.
And another title with Mahorn playing in Philadelphia.

And Rick Mahorn actually saw his time/production fall in the playoffs... averaging fewer minutes and only 6/5.

And Zekes production always fell in the playoffs too...lucky to have been in Detroit...They didn't really need him.

To be fair... at least Thomas was on those Pistons title teams... unlike... well, you know... Rick Mahorn.

And no... you're also wrong about Thomas' production "always" falling.

19.2 ppg vs. 20.4 ppg
3.6 reb vs. 4.7 reb
1.9 stl vs. 2.1 stl
3.8 TO vs. 3.3 TO

Walk it off...

[Y2K]

Mahorn and Lambeer where the enforcers that did the dirty work...They were the heart and soul of those Piston defenses...

the 90's bulls were mainly a defensive team... that was how they beat everyone. their 2 most important front court defenders were dennis rodman and scottie pippen

they handled the true tests of shaq/malone/kemp during those runs


i guess 3 of jordans rings are bogus

Is that why they finished with the #1 offense in 2 of those 3 years?

[Smelters]

Zeke is simply the beneficiary of being in the right place at the right time. The TRUE MVP of those Pistons is Chuck Daly and his revolutionary style of defense he employed.

You can say that (right place right time) about other athletes also.
Isiah was putting up numbers when he and Kelly Tripucka were the lead dogs in Detroit.

Chuck Daly and the Pistons started going defense with the drafting of Dumars, Rodman, Salley, etc. This hurt Zeke's numbers slightly as the Pistons weren't as explosive offensively.

Isiah had many memorable playoff games and series and was the leader of the 2 time champion Pistons.

He is not on the MJ, Magic, Bird, Kareem, etc level but is right under them.

Not really...Guys like Magic, Bird, Jordan, and even LeBron made their situations the right place because they were that dominant. Thomas was good, but he was simply a piece to the puzzle. The reality is, guys like Mahorn, Dumars, and even Lambeer where every bit as integral as Thomas was in Chuck Daly's system...

So I guess Kareem, Worthy, Scott, Mcadoo, Cooper, McHale, Parish, Dennis Johnson, Ainge, Pippen, Wade, Bosh, Kyrie, etc had nothing to do with guys like Magic, Bird, Jordan and Bron winning.

I'm not saying that Isiah is top 10 like the op but he is in the running below that tier.

[AbeVigodaLive]

For Riley's next act...

"Bill Russell is the reason the 2008 Celtics won the title."
"There's no way the Golden State Warriors win any titles without Shaq."
"Charlize Theron is the only reason the LA Clippers won the 2013 NBA title."

[Smelters]

The Pistons won one title with Mahorn as a 7/7 guy.
And another title with Mahorn playing in Philadelphia.

And Rick Mahorn actually saw his time/production fall in the playoffs... averaging fewer minutes and only 6/5.

And Zekes production always fell in the playoffs too...lucky to have been in Detroit...They didn't really need him.

To be fair... at least Thomas was on those Pistons title teams... unlike... well, you know... Rick Mahorn.

And no... you're also wrong about Thomas' production "always" falling.

19.2 ppg vs. 20.4 ppg
3.6 reb vs. 4.7 reb
1.9 stl vs. 2.1 stl
3.8 TO vs. 3.3 TO

Walk it off...

Riley roasted by Abe. He may need a timeout.

[Robceltsfan]

I mean....we're talking about a guy who was 1st Team All-NBA only 3 times in his career.....only made 5 All-NBA teams period....never finished higher than 5th in the MVP vote....and has advanced metrics placing him more in line with a guy like Reggie Miller than guys in the top 10.

Saying he's top 25 all-time is not a hit against Zeke...

He's just not near the top 10. No way. The Pistons title teams were predicated mostly on defensive prowess....and he was NOT the best defensive player on the floor for Detroit.

the lack of 1st team awards is due to playing at a time when michael jordan/magic johnson were in the league

and back then there was only 2 all nba teams... plus the achilles rupture that ended his career made it impossible to catch up during the diluted 90s

So you're telling me that I need to consider him a top 10 player ALL-TIME when he couldn't even consistently be a top 2 GUARD throughout his career?

[AbeVigodaLive]

I mean....we're talking about a guy who was 1st Team All-NBA only 3 times in his career.....only made 5 All-NBA teams period....never finished higher than 5th in the MVP vote....and has advanced metrics placing him more in line with a guy like Reggie Miller than guys in the top 10.

Saying he's top 25 all-time is not a hit against Zeke...

He's just not near the top 10. No way. The Pistons title teams were predicated mostly on defensive prowess....and he was NOT the best defensive player on the floor for Detroit.

the lack of 1st team awards is due to playing at a time when michael jordan/magic johnson were in the league

and back then there was only 2 all nba teams... plus the achilles rupture that ended his career made it impossible to catch up during the diluted 90s

So you're telling me that I need to consider him a top 10 player ALL-TIME when he couldn't even consistently be a top 2 GUARD throughout his career?

Just how good were the 1980s? Damn.

Isiah Thomas was deemed a Top 7 player only one season (5th in MVP). Only a top 11 player 4 times... But Griff thinks he's near a Top 10 player.

Ever. Stop Griff. Just stop...

[rileymartin]

Thomas averaged almost two and a half minutes more per game during the playoffs. His additional numbers are a direct product of that. However, his shooting percentage went down in the playoffs. Thomas was good for the Pistons, but simply not the most integral piece...Sorry fan boys.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Thomas averaged almost two and a half minutes more per game during the playoffs. His additional numbers are a direct product of that. However, his shooting percentage went down in the playoffs. Thomas was good for the Pistons, but simply not the most integral piece...Sorry fan boys.

Rick Mahorn averaged 0.0 ppg and 0.0 reb in the 1990 title run. To be fair, nobody scored on him in the playoffs either...

[rileymartin]

Thomas averaged almost two and a half minutes more per game during the playoffs. His additional numbers are a direct product of that. However, his shooting percentage went down in the playoffs. Thomas was good for the Pistons, but simply not the most integral piece...Sorry fan boys.

Rick Mahorn averaged 0.0 ppg and 0.0 reb in the 1990 title run. To be fair, nobody scored on him in the playoffs either...

Mahorn, Laimbeer, Rodman, Sally...Take your pick. Those guys were WAY more important to Chuck Daly. Mahorn may not have been there during the 2 title, but he was there when Chuck was implementing his Bad Boys defense and helped them take it to a championship level.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Thomas averaged almost two and a half minutes more per game during the playoffs. His additional numbers are a direct product of that. However, his shooting percentage went down in the playoffs. Thomas was good for the Pistons, but simply not the most integral piece...Sorry fan boys.

Rick Mahorn averaged 0.0 ppg and 0.0 reb in the 1990 title run. To be fair, nobody scored on him in the playoffs either...

Mahorn, Laimbeer, Rodman, Sally...Take your pick. Those guys were WAY more important to Chuck Daly. Mahorn may not have been there during the 2 title, but he was there when Chuck was implementing his Bad Boys defense and helped them take it to a championship level.

Good point.

There's no way the Cavs win the 2016 NBA title without Anderson Varejo and Boobie.

[Robceltsfan]

If we're being honest....hasn't Steph Curry's career already surpassed that of Zeke's? 2-Time MVP....2-Time champion....redefining what we consider "range" in the NBA. Best player on a 73-win team.

[rileymartin]

Rick Mahorn averaged 0.0 ppg and 0.0 reb in the 1990 title run. To be fair, nobody scored on him in the playoffs either...

Mahorn, Laimbeer, Rodman, Sally...Take your pick. Those guys were WAY more important to Chuck Daly. Mahorn may not have been there during the 2 title, but he was there when Chuck was implementing his Bad Boys defense and helped them take it to a championship level.

Good point.

There's no way the Cavs win the 2016 NBA title without Anderson Varejo and Boobie.

I feel sorry for you...

[AbeVigodaLive]

If we're being honest....hasn't Steph Curry's career already surpassed that of Zeke's? 2-Time MVP....2-Time champion....redefining what we consider "range" in the NBA. Best player on a 73-win team.

Probably?

Thomas only played 12 or 13 seasons. Curry is about to start season #9, so he's not even that far behind Zeke there.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Mahorn, Laimbeer, Rodman, Sally...Take your pick. Those guys were WAY more important to Chuck Daly. Mahorn may not have been there during the 2 title, but he was there when Chuck was implementing his Bad Boys defense and helped them take it to a championship level.

Good point.

There's no way the Cavs win the 2016 NBA title without Anderson Varejo and Boobie.

I feel sorry for you...

Good comeback.

It's funny how SOME posters are incapable of simply writing "Sorry, I was wrong about that."

You're trying so desperately to do anything you can to run from a really stupid mistake... when all that's needed is a "my bad."