the myth that shaq could have won with any quality 2nd option in place of Kobe Bryant

[Kennethgriffin]

1993 - nick anderson 20ppg
1993 - dennis scott 16ppg
1993 - scott skiles 15ppg

result = missed playoffs

1994 - penny hardaway 16ppg
1994 - nick anderson 16ppg
1994 - dennis scott 13ppg
1994 - scott skiles 10ppg

result = swept first round

1995 - penny hardaway 21ppg
1995 - nick anderson 16ppg
1995 - dennis scott 13ppg
1995 - horace grant 13ppg

result = swept nba finals

1996 - penny hardaway 22ppg
1996 - dennis scott 18ppg
1996 - nick anderson 15ppg
1996 - horace grant 13ppg

result = swept third round

1997 - eddie jones 17ppg
1997 - nick van exel 15ppg
1997 - elden campbell 15ppg
1997 - cedric ceballos 11ppg

result = lost 1-4 first round

1998 - eddie jones 17ppg
1998 - kobe bryant 15ppg
1998 - nick van exel 14ppg
1998 - rick fox 12ppg
1998 - elden campbell 10ppg

result = swept first round

1999 - kobe bryant 20ppg
1999 - glen rice 18ppg
1999 - rick fox 10ppg

result = swept 2nd round

2003 - kobe bryant 30ppg ( injured in playoffs )
2003 - derek fisher 10ppg

result = lost 2-4 in 2nd round

2005 - dwyane wade 24ppg
2005 - eddie jones 13ppg
2005 - damon jones 12ppg
2005 - udonas haslem 11ppg

result = lost 3-4 in third round


2007 - dwyane wade 27ppg
2007 - jason williams 11ppg
2007 - jason kapono 11ppg
2007 - udonas haslem 11ppg

result = swept first round

2008 - amare stoudemire 25ppg
2008 - steve nash 16ppg
2008 - shawn marion 16ppg
2008 - leandro barbosa 16ppg
2008 - grant hill 13ppg
2008 - raja bell 12ppg

result = lost 1-4 first round

2009 - amare stoudemire 21ppg
2009 - jason richardson 16ppg
2009 - steve nash 16ppg
2009 - leandro barbosa 14ppg
2009 - grant hill 12ppg
2009 - matt barnes 10ppg

result = missed playoffs

2010 - lebron james 30ppg
2010 - mo williams 16ppg
2010 - antawn jamison 16ppg

result = lost 2-4 in 2nd round

2011 - paul pierce 19ppg
2011 - ray allen 17ppg
2011 - kevin garnett 15ppg
2011 - glen davis 12ppg
2011 - rajon rondo 11ppg
2011 - jeff green 10ppg

result = lost 1-4 in 2nd round






Fact* when shaq didnt have an elite healthy kobe bryant or dwyane wade. He failed miserably with copious amounts of talent surrounding him

Shaquille o'neal dominated the finals in 2000,2001,2002.. yes

Nobody is arguing that those series could have been salvaged without kobe bean bryant. But in order to even get that far shaq needed kobe for the portlands, sanantonios and sacramentos

In game 7 of the 2000 wcf.. kobe bryabt was the leader in points, assists, rebounds and blocked shots. Perhaps the biggest game of shaqs life was saved by a 21 year old.

Then in the 2000 nba finals. Had kobe not saved the day in game 4

Game 1 - lakers won
Game 2 - lakers won
Game 3 - pacers won
Game 4 - pacers win instead
Game 5 - pacers won


Basically indiana has all the momentum up 3 games to 2 going back to LA for games 6 and 7

Who knows what happens



As for 2001 and 2002. Kobe was as important as any teammate in nba history

But to put one more stamp on the point i'm trying to make. Out of all 2nd leading scorers in championship history. Kobe bryant has the 2 highest scoring averages in the playoffs AND nba finals


Playoffs:

2001 Kobe Bryant 29.4
2002 Kobe Bryant 26.6
1986 Kevin Mchale 24.9
1958 Bob Pettit 24.2
1963 Sam Jones 23.8
1966 John Havlicek 23.6
1972 Jerry West 22.9
2012 Dwyane Wade 22.8
1987 Magic Johnson 21.8
1967 Wilt Chamberlain 21.7
1991 Scottie Pippen 21.6
1985 James Worthy 21.5
1978 Bob Dandridge 21.2
2000 Kobe Bryant 21.1
1957 Bill Sharman 21.1
1976 Dave Cowens 21.0
1979 Dennis Johnson 20.9
2005 Manu Ginobili 20.8
2007 Tony Parker 20.8
1962 Tom Heinsohn 20.7
1968 Sam Jones 20.5
1995 Clyde Drexler 20.5
1974 Dave Cowens 20.5
1982 Kareem Abdul Jabbar 20.4
1980 Jamaal Wilkes 20.3
1956 Neil Johnston 20.3
1993 Scottie Pippen 20.1
1959 Bill Sharman 20.1
2006 Shaquille O'neal 20.0
1988 Magic Johnson 19.9
2010 Pau Gasol 19.6
1992 Scottie Pippen 19.5
1997 Scottie Pippen 19.2
1971 Bob Dandridge 19.2
1961 Bill Russell 19.1
2008 Kevin Garnett 18.8
1983 Andrew Tony 18.8
2015 Klay Thompson 18.6
1965 John Havlicek 18.5
1960 Bill Russell 18.5
2009 Pau Gasol 18.3
1977 Bill Walton 18.2
1990 Joe Dumars 18.2
1989 Joe Dumars 17.6
2011 Jason Terry 17.5
1964 Tom Heinsohn 17.4
1970 Dick Barnett 16.9
1996 Scottie Pippen 16.9
1998 Scottie Pippen 16.8
1969 Sam Jones 16.8
1984 Dennis Johnson 16.6
2004 Chauncey Billups 16.4
2014 Tim Duncan 16.3
1981 Cedric Maxwell 16.1
1973 Earl Monroe 16.1
1952 Jim Pollard 16.1
2013 Dwyane Wade 15.9
1951 Bob Davies 15.9
1999 David Robinson 15.6
1975 Jamaal Wilkes 15.0
2003 Tony Parker 14.7
1953 Jim Pollard 14.3
1994 Vernon Maxwell 13.8
1955 Red Kerr 13.8
1950 Vern Mikkelsen 13.0
1954 Jim Pollard 12.3




Finals:

2002 Kobe Bryant 26.8
2001 Kobe bryant 24.6
1958 Bob Pettit 24.0 ( Cliff Hagan 25.3, playoffs and finals leader )
1986 Larry Bird 24.0 ( Mchale 25.8ppg )
1985 James Worthy 23.7
1971 Oscar Robertson 23.5
1963 Tom Heinsohn 23.3 ( Jones 24.6 )
1966 Sam Jones 22.9
1974 Dave Cowens 22.7
1979 Dennis Johnson 22.6 ( Gus Williams 29.0ppg finals, playoffs leader too..wtf? )
2012 Dwyane Wade 22.6
1959 Tie* Sharman/Ramsay 22.5 ( heinsohn 24.2 )
1962 Sam Jones 22.1 ( russell 22.8 )
1983 Andrew Tony 22.0 ( Julius Erving 3rd option in playoffs and finals )
1957 Bill Sharman 21.8 ( Heinsohn 24.0 )
1987 Kareem Abdul Jabbar 21.7
1980 Magic Johnson 21.5
1995 Clyde Drexler 21.5
1989 Isiah Thomas 21.3
1993 Scottie Pippen 21.2
1988 Magic Johnson 21.1
1968 Bailey Howell 21.0
2004 Chauncey Billups 21.0 (Rip playoff and finals leader. robbed )
1992 Scottie Pippen 20.8
1991 Scottie Pippen 20.8
1990 Joe Dumars 20.6
1976 Dave Cowens 20.5
1978 Bob Dandridge 20.4
2008 Ray Allen 20.3
1997 Scottie Pippen 20.0
1972 Jerry West 19.8
2013 Dwyane Wade 19.6
2005 Manu Ginobili 18.7
1969 Sam Jones 18.7
1970 Dick Barnett 18.6
2010 Pau Gasol 18.6
2009 Pau Gasol 18.6
1977 Bill Walton 18.5
1960 Frank Ramsay 18.4 ( Heinsohn 22.4 )
1964 John Havlicek 18.4
2007 Tim Duncan 18.3
1965 John Havlicek 18.2
2011 Jason Terry 18.0
1982 Kareem Abdul Jabbar 18.0
2014 Kawhi Leonard 17.8
1967 Wilt Chamberlain 17.7 ( Hal Greer 26.0ppg. would have been mvp )
1961 Bill Russell 17.6 ( heinsohn 22.0 )
1984 Dennis Johnson 17.6
1951 Bob Davies 17.0
1999 David Robinson 16.6
1973 Willis Reed 16.4
1952 Jim Pollard 16.4
2015 Andre Iguodala 16.3
1998 Scottie Pippen 15.7
1996 Scottie Pippen 15.7
2000 Kobe Bryant 15.6 ( *19.0 minus the 2 point injury game )
1981 Larry Bird 15.3 ( ....................wtf? )
1953 Jim Pollard 14.4
2003 Tony Parker 14.0
2006 Antoine Walker 13.8 ( to my surprise Shaq only averaged 13.7 )
1956 Neil Johnston 13.6 ( Arizin 27.6 )
1950 Jim Pollard 13.6 ( mikan 32.1 )
1994 Vernon Maxwell 13.4




In the end. Shaq was a beast. But he probably had the most help that any guy ever had in nba history in terms of a single teammate... not saying kobe didnt either. But it was a 2 man team. And both needed each other

[PhutureDynasty]

[zombiesonics]

Tracy McGrady three peats with prime Shaq.

[Da Stars.]

In what year did Kobe join a lottery team?

[AlaskaHawks]

Undeniable logic.

Kobe is a beast.

[manchild98]

[LeBronMonsterDunk]

Lol @ Thinking anyone is gonna read that shit.

[Kennethgriffin]

In what year did Kobe join a lottery team?

the year 11 of the lakers 12 best players got waived or traded and kobe missed 1/3rd of the year with a sprained ankle

we gonna act like his 06 or 07 roster was any better when he made the playoffs?

and nobodies denying that kobe needed gasol. but gasol isnt a legend. hes just a really good teammate

everyone needs 1



this topic is to show that shaq CANNOT win with anyone but a top 20-25 all time legend ( kobe top 5-6.. wade top 20-25 )


kobe however can. and did

twice


gasol = top 85-90

[elartman1973]

He would have won multiple with penny...they were just getting warmed up..
after the bulls broke up the Penny and Shaq combo would have had no competition

[elmouse03]

Wasn't this already posted a while back ago?

[Da Stars.]

In what year did Kobe join a lottery team?

the year 11 of the lakers 12 best players got waived or traded and kobe missed 1/3rd of the year with a sprained ankle

we gonna act like his 06 or 07 roster was any better when he made the playoffs?

and nobodies denying that kobe needed gasol. but gasol isnt a legend. hes just a really good teammate

everyone needs 1



this topic is to show that shaq CANNOT win with anyone but a top 20-25 all time legend ( kobe top 5-6.. wade top 20-25 )


kobe however can. and did

twice


gasol = top 85-90

I guess you do no understand the term "Join" Kobe never joined a lottery team. He was part of a lottery team. Thanks for playing.

[Master Spade]

Who ever said K.Bryant sucked? In all honesty, while he is over rated, he is still one of the Top 15 GOAT. IMO, he is 12th GOAT.

Shaq himself had his faults. The greatest one being his drive. He COULD of been a top 5 GOAT. But, he got lazy. Still Top 10 of all time. But......what could have been.....

[Master Spade]

lol! So true.

any guesses on the number of pages this goes?

[Kennethgriffin]

Who ever said K.Bryant sucked? In all honesty, while he is over rated, he is still one of the Top 15 GOAT. IMO, he is 12th GOAT.

Shaq himself had his faults. The greatest one being his drive. He COULD of been a top 5 GOAT. But, he got lazy. Still Top 10 of all time. But......what could have been.....

[thedangerouskitchen]

The league was much tougher (during the 90's) than it was in 2008 and 2009.

Shaq's mid 90's Magic / late 90's Lakers would be a Dynasty if they played in the NBA the last 10 years.

[Kennethgriffin]

The league was much tougher (during the 90's) than it was in 2008 and 2009.

Shaq's mid 90's Magic / late 90's Lakers would be a Dynasty if they played in the NBA the last 10 years.

the 2000 blazers, 2001 spurs, 2002 kings were all better or on par with the 8 teams that made the playoffs over shaqs 93 team, the 94 pacers, the 95 rockets, the 97 jazz, the 98 jazz, and 99 spurs

2000 portland probably beats all of those teams

2001 spurs probably beat all of those teams

2002 kings probably beat all of them too


95 rockets had 2 guys, 98 jazz had 3 guys.... portland was 12 deep, kings were 10 feep, 2001 spurs had prime tim duncan and a great admiral

[Robceltsfan]

I didn't miss this dumb shit AT ALL.

[Kennethgriffin]

I didn't miss this dumb shit AT ALL.

is that you in your avatar?

[Robceltsfan]

I didn't miss this dumb shit AT ALL.

is that you in your avatar?

Yeah, and that's the look on my face when I read one of your threads.

[elmouse03]

Well for the record. Griff got the 58 finals wrong. Pettit averaged 29.3ppg to Hagan's 25.2.