I hear this Anthony Edwards kid is a lot like Jordan...

[thedangerouskitchen]

He's been 36% and a bit since his rookie year from beyond the arc, on high volume. He's a WAY better 3 point shooter than MJ in that context, especially when you take out the shortened 3 point line years. But you already knew that.

1990: 3.0 attempts at .376%... waaaaay above the .331% league-average
1993: 2.9 attempts at .352%... above .336% league-average
1995: 1.9 attempts at .500%... again, waaaaaaaaaay above the .359% league-average
1996: 3.2 attempts at .427%... again, waaaaaaaaaay above the .367% league-average
1997: 3.6 attampts at .374%... again, above the .360% league average

Shortened line OR not (ie; 90 and 93) when Jordan took 2 or more long-range shots per game he was always above-average-to-great, relative to his peers.

Fact!

Over his career Jordan attempted "only" 1.7 long-range shots per game... and his .327% career average overall was average.

Edwards has shot average to BELOW league-average every year of his career.

...and here's a newsflash: You actually get BETTER when you practice more; thus, the more 3-pointers Jordan took the BETTER he shot. Hence, it stands to reason if he attempted 5 or more a game his percentage would increase accordingly as well... unless you think practicing more makes you worse?



Next.

So we can pretend MJ was better at something, but players from prior eras are stuck in a time machine and aren't better?

No. He was a mediocre 3 point shooter and Edwards is a far better 3 point shooter. Period.

Wrong... I just showed you the evidence black and white.

Jordan taking 2 or more 3-pointers per game = above league-average AND >>>> Edwards.

Overall for his career Jordan was average relative to his peers, while Edwards is below-average.

Stone cold facts that your uninformed opinion does not change.

Fact!

Oh, and BTW... since you and your BWGC pals love the stat sooooo much, and place immense credibility on its findings:

Jordan: .569% TS%
Edwards: .558% TS%

Ouuuuuch!

[Bush4Ever.]

Edwards has a higher 3pt+ than Chicago Jordan (98 vs 97), despite Jordan being able to draw from multiple seasons where the line was intentionally moved in to aid his game and win him more rings (thus adding inflated value to his career totals).

Not only is Edwards better, he's better in a league where the shot is defended better, AND by better athletes, AND in a better relative shooting era to boot, WITHOUT being aided in a special way by the NBA.

lmao

[thedangerouskitchen]

Edwards has a higher 3pt+ than Chicago Jordan (98 vs 97), despite Jordan being able to draw from multiple seasons where the line was intentionally moved in to aid his game and win him more rings (thus adding inflated value to his career totals).

Not only is Edwards better, he's better in a league where the shot is defended better, AND by better athletes, AND in a better relative shooting era to boot, WITHOUT being aided in a special way by the NBA.

lmao

Suddenly TS% isn't the go-to stat... and the cherry-picking is special too (ie; MJ 97 and 98).

... you're almost as big a fraud as LeBron.



Anyway here are facts, not the estimates, guesses or opinions that you and those "fake stats" yield: When Jordan attempted 2 or more 3-point shots per game his % >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Edwards. Also, head-to-head vs. their respective peers Jordan's 3PT% shooting >>>>> Edwards.

Those are facts AND you can't spin facts no matter how hard you try.

[Bush4Ever.]

Suddenly TS% isn't the go-to stat... and the cherry-picking is special too (ie; MJ 97 and 98).

What the fuck are you babbling about?

97 and 98 are the true shooting percentage for threes for Chicago Jordan and Edwards to-date (which is depressed by his 19 year old rookie season, btw), idiot.

Even WITH the benefit of the short line, even WITH the benefit of including Edwards' first two seasons in the NBA that Jordan didn't play...Edwards is STILL higher/better than Jordan.

lmao!

[Sudanese Sensation]

*Cliff Notes please. Has the young Mr. Edwards' body of work surpassed that of Michael Jordan?

[Bush4Ever.]

*Cliff Notes please. Has the young Mr. Edwards body of work surpassed that of Michael Jordan?

TDK is claiming Jordan was a lights out three-point shooter, because he hit six uncontested threes in a Finals game once, and was above the league-average a few times in a career that spanned from 1985 through 2003.

It's really smart stuff.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Suddenly TS% isn't the go-to stat... and the cherry-picking is special too (ie; MJ 97 and 98).

What the fuck are you babbling about?

97 and 98 are the true shooting percentage for threes for Chicago Jordan and Edwards to-date, idiot.

For the love of God bush-league, no one cares about your "fake stats"... how many times are you going to get embarrassed by the immense flaws and/or often ridiculous results that come from their findings?



Newsflash: When fans, analysts, players, commentators, media hosts, etc. talk hoops they talk about stats on a Per Game basis (not per100, per36, etc.), and they talk about "factual" results not estimates, guesses and hunches.

FACT: When Jordan attempted 2 or more 3-point shots per game his % >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Edwards. Also, head-to-head vs. their respective peers Jordan's average 3PT% >>>>> Edwards' below-average shooting.

That is all.

[Bush4Ever.]

Newsflash: When fans, analysts, players, commentators, media hosts, etc. talk hoops they talk about stats on a Per Game basis (not per100, per36, etc.), and they talk about "factual" results not estimates, guesses and hunches.

Per 100 and Per 36 are not estimates, hunches (what?), or guesses.

Do you actually know what "per 100 possessions" or "per 36 minutes" means?

[Bush4Ever.]

TDK, if a player scored 31 points in 39 minutes, how many points per 36 minutes would they have scored?

TDK, if a player scored 37 points across 102 possessions, how many points per 100 possessions would they have scored?

[Bush4Ever.]

Also, head-to-head vs. their respective peers Jordan's average 3PT% >>>>> Edwards' below-average shooting.

That is all.

This is literally what 3pt+ measures, and no he wasn't.

He was very slightly worse (97 vs. 98, so basically 3 vs. 2 percent worse than the league-average during the relevant time spans).

This is *with* the benefit of the short line (where he feasted disproportionate to real three-point shooters), and Edwards playing two seasons before Jordan played in the NBA (Edward's 3pt+ these last two years is 100).

[thedangerouskitchen]

Newsflash: When fans, analysts, players, commentators, media hosts, etc. talk hoops they talk about stats on a Per Game basis (not per100, per36, etc.), and they talk about "factual" results not estimates, guesses and hunches.

Per 100 and Per 36 are not estimates, hunches (what?), or guesses.

Do you actually know what "per 100 possessions" or "per 36 minutes" means?

Per100 takes multiple games into account since a team isn't getting 100 possessions in a single game... if you don't understand why that skews the numbers (either for the better or the worse) then you really shouldn't be discussing hoops.

Per Game averages are much more credible, for obvious reasons.

Jordan's 3PT% >>>> Edwards when he takes 2 or more Attempts per game, and overall, relative to peers, Jordan shot average to Edwards' below-average.

Facts.

[Bush4Ever.]

Per100 takes multiple games into account since a team isn't getting 100 possessions in a single game... if you don't understand why that skews the numbers (either for the better or the worse) then you really shouldn't be discussing hoops.

Just quoting this before you can edit or remove.

Edit: By the way, the quantity of average possessions per game this year varied from 97 to 104.

But you knew all that, right?

https://www.espn.com/nba/hollinger/team ... paceFactor

[thedangerouskitchen]

Per100 takes multiple games into account since a team isn't getting 100 possessions in a single game... if you don't understand why that skews the numbers (either for the better or the worse) then you really shouldn't be discussing hoops.

Just quoting this before you can edit or remove.

Quote whatever you want... the fact remains your made-up stats and per100 crappola is not more accurate or more credible than the hard-core, stone cold fact that Jordan's 3PT% (when taking 2 or more attempts) is >>>>> Edwards', and that includes with and withOut the shortened line.

Next.

[Bush4Ever.]

Quote whatever you want... the fact remains your made-up stats and per100 crappola

If a player scores 35 points in 98 possessions, how many points does he score per 100 possessions?

[thedangerouskitchen]

Quote whatever you want... the fact remains your made-up stats and per100 crappola

If a player scores 35 points in 98 possessions, how many points does he score per 100 possessions?

35.7... and I couldn't care less... I look at what the player Scored in the game, regardless of whether there's 70, 80 or 150 possessions.

Only stat geeks and "thinkers" get excited by manipulating factual, raw numbers.

[Bush4Ever.]

I look at what the player Scored in the game, regardless of whether there's 70, 80 or 150 possessions.

Cool.

Will you go on record as saying Elgin Baylor was a superior rebounder to Dennis Rodman?

13.6 a game as a non-specialist vs. 13.1 a game (as mostly a specialist)

Thanks.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/le ... areer.html

[Havlicekstealsit]

Never forget the league moved the 3pt line in so Mike could set personal bests in % because he simply wasn't good enough to hit them at the old distance.

[Bush4Ever.]

Never forget the league moved the 3pt line in so Mike could set personal bests in % because he simply wasn't good enough to hit them at the old distance.

Indeed.

The league actively cheated for Jordan on threes, and he still couldn't match what a random relative-non shooter in 2024 does from three.

The skill gap is almost inhuman at this point between boomer ball and modern ball.

[thedangerouskitchen]

I look at what the player Scored in the game, regardless of whether there's 70, 80 or 150 possessions.

Cool.

Will you go on record as saying Elgin Baylor was a superior rebounder to Dennis Rodman?

13.6 a game as a non-specialist vs. 13.1 a game (as mostly a specialist)

Thanks.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/le ... areer.html

For starters I would look at how many FGA are taken to determine how many Rebounds were available (Offensive, Defensive and Overall). If there were 150 Rebounds available and Baylor averaged 13.6 then he wouldn't necessarily be a better Rebounder if Rodman grabbed 13.1 when there were, say, only 125 Total Rebounds available.

You could also look at Rebound %, as it's one of the more reliable made-up stats because it merely involves totalling all the available Rebounds and then determining what % a given player grabbed while he is on the floor... again, not a difficult stat to calculate, certainly nothing close to being as outrageously flawed as PER, +/-, TS%, etc.

Another factor to consider is, what type of Front Line did the guy play alongside? Bird played alongside 2 other HOF Bigs who grabbed a huge chunk of the Rebounds.. so Larry averaging 10 a game for his career is more impressive to me than Wilt averaging 23 a game against competition (literally) half his size in an Era where there were many more Rebounds available.

There's many ways to determine who is the better / best, but there is no one absolute method... certainly not advanced metrics, although I will concede that *some* of them aren't completely useless.

[Bush4Ever.]

For starters I would look at how many FGA are taken to determine....

Oh...so suddenly it's "rebounds per something [rebounding chances]" and not per-game.

Gotcha.

Nice, complete and total 180.

lmao!