EPIC fail, as the line was shortened when Jordan was playing baseball.Havlicekstealsit wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 7:55 pm Never forget the league moved the 3pt line in so Mike could set personal bests in % because he simply wasn't good enough to hit them at the old distance.
I hear this Anthony Edwards kid is a lot like Jordan...
-
- G.O.A.T.
- Posts: 42918
- Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:32 pm
Re: I hear this Anthony Edwards kid is a lot like Jordan...
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
-
- G.O.A.T.
- Posts: 42918
- Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:32 pm
Re: I hear this Anthony Edwards kid is a lot like Jordan...
It's Rebounds per Game in addition to several other factors that I mentioned. What it's "not" is your silly per100 or per 36 nonsense.Bush4Ever. wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 8:11 pmOh...so suddenly it's "rebounds per something [rebounding chances]" and not per-game.thedangerouskitchen wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 8:07 pm For starters I would look at how many FGA are taken to determine....
Gotcha.
Nice, complete and total 180.
lmao!
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
-
- G.O.A.T.
- Posts: 42918
- Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:32 pm
Re: I hear this Anthony Edwards kid is a lot like Jordan...
Especially at the start of the 94-95 season when they moved the line in while Mike was playing baseball.Bush4Ever. wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 7:58 pmIndeed.Havlicekstealsit wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 7:55 pm Never forget the league moved the 3pt line in so Mike could set personal bests in % because he simply wasn't good enough to hit them at the old distance.
The league actively cheated for Jordan on threes, and he still couldn't match what a random relative-non shooter in 2024 does from three.
The skill gap is almost inhuman at this point between boomer ball and modern ball.
at bush owning himself.
What was that you said earliuer... learn to take your L's and move on, or something like that?
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
- Bush4Ever.
- All-Time Great
- Posts: 13322
- Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:37 pm
Re: I hear this Anthony Edwards kid is a lot like Jordan...
You shouldn't be so shameless. It makes you look less intelligent and more dishonest than you probably are in regular life.thedangerouskitchen wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 8:16 pm
It's Rebounds per Game in addition to several other factors that I mentioned. What it's "not" is your silly per100 or per 36 nonsense.
More possessions = more chances to accumulate *everything* (counting based) in volume.
It's not any more complicated than that. That's why quantity of possessions confounds counting statistics.
Giannis averaged 31.1 points/game in 2023.
Malone averaged 31.0 points/game in 1990.
Giannis advantage (per-game): 0.3 percent
But wait!
Giannis averaged 32.1 minutes a game to Malone's 38.1 minutes a game.
What does it look like when looking at per-possession?
Wow!
Giannis: 46.2/100 possessions
Malone: 40.6/100 possessions
Giannis advantage: 13.8 percent (5.6/40.6)*(100).
It's almost like...pace and quantity of possessions is a super obvious confound in calculating per-game totals or something.
lmao
-
- Role Player
- Posts: 386
- Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2024 2:16 pm
Re: I hear this Anthony Edwards kid is a lot like Jordan...
TDK is mind numbingly stupid.
- AlaskaHawks
- Mount Rushmore
- Posts: 37203
- Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:47 pm
Re: I hear this Anthony Edwards kid is a lot like Jordan...
Basic statistics seem to confuse some Boomers. But at least you have 600k sitting in a .25% interest rate savings account.
"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe you might block every shot."
Bill Russell
"I'm just 'bout that action, boss"
L.O.B. = Love our Brothers.
Bill Russell
"I'm just 'bout that action, boss"
L.O.B. = Love our Brothers.
- Da Stars.
- Tight wad. Penny pincher. Mr. Dollar Theater.
- Posts: 35330
- Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:51 am
Re: I hear this Anthony Edwards kid is a lot like Jordan...
As a confused boomer, I would rather have .25% on my savings than understand some form of advanced metrics.AlaskaHawks wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 8:59 pm Basic statistics seem to confuse some Boomers. But at least you have 600k sitting in a .25% interest rate savings account.
- AlaskaHawks
- Mount Rushmore
- Posts: 37203
- Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:47 pm
Re: I hear this Anthony Edwards kid is a lot like Jordan...
Yikes.Da Stars. wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 9:09 pmAs a confused boomer, I would rather have .25% on my savings than understand some form of advanced metrics.AlaskaHawks wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 8:59 pm Basic statistics seem to confuse some Boomers. But at least you have 600k sitting in a .25% interest rate savings account.
"The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe you might block every shot."
Bill Russell
"I'm just 'bout that action, boss"
L.O.B. = Love our Brothers.
Bill Russell
"I'm just 'bout that action, boss"
L.O.B. = Love our Brothers.
- Sudanese Sensation
- Legend
- Posts: 24339
- Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:36 am
Re: I hear this Anthony Edwards kid is a lot like Jordan...
That's one quarter of a percent, Stars. Better to put your money in T Bills, a CD, or a fixed annuity if you're looking for conservative investments.Da Stars. wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 9:09 pmAs a confused boomer, I would rather have .25% on my savings than understand some form of advanced metrics.AlaskaHawks wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 8:59 pm Basic statistics seem to confuse some Boomers. But at least you have 600k sitting in a .25% interest rate savings account.
.
- Sudanese Sensation
- Legend
- Posts: 24339
- Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:36 am
Re: I hear this Anthony Edwards kid is a lot like Jordan...
Stars, you should ask Grizz for financial advice.
- Da Stars.
- Tight wad. Penny pincher. Mr. Dollar Theater.
- Posts: 35330
- Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:51 am
Re: I hear this Anthony Edwards kid is a lot like Jordan...
LOL. I even refigured it the second time and went yike. Then realized, I was wrong again.AlaskaHawks wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 11:18 pmYikes.Da Stars. wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 9:09 pmAs a confused boomer, I would rather have .25% on my savings than understand some form of advanced metrics.AlaskaHawks wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 8:59 pm Basic statistics seem to confuse some Boomers. But at least you have 600k sitting in a .25% interest rate savings account.
- PhutureDynasty
- Mount Rushmore
- Posts: 31691
- Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:14 pm
Re: I hear this Anthony Edwards kid is a lot like Jordan...
He is Michael Jordan...
- Both SGs
- Both played multiple sports
- Both competitive at everything
- Both raise their game come playoff time
Ant even looks like Mike.
-
- G.O.A.T.
- Posts: 42918
- Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:32 pm
Re: I hear this Anthony Edwards kid is a lot like Jordan...
We're discussing Rebounds professor... not Points.Bush4Ever. wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 8:24 pmIrrelevant drivel...thedangerouskitchen wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2024 8:16 pm
It's Rebounds per Game in addition to several other factors that I mentioned. What it's "not" is your silly per100 or per 36 nonsense.
PS: Again, no one cares how many Rebounds or Points Player A scored per100, fool. Manipulating "per game" stats is for people who can only "think", not "do". But since you brought it up:
Malone: 19.8 FGA / 11.1 FTA = 31.0-PPG on 56%
Giannis: 20.3 FGA / 12.3 FTA = 31.1-PPG on 55%
Why should I care how many Minutes each guy played? Who cares. Does Giannis get extra credit for chuckin' up more "FGA per Minute" than Malone?
Again, no one cares.
"Reality" says Malone and Giannis averaged the same number of Points per game and Malone was slightly more Efficient in doing so... and you can figure all that out withOut your silly per100, or your silly fake stats, charts and disserations.
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
- Bush4Ever.
- All-Time Great
- Posts: 13322
- Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:37 pm
Re: I hear this Anthony Edwards kid is a lot like Jordan...
Ah, okay.thedangerouskitchen wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2024 4:35 pm
We're discussing Rebounds professor... not Points.
Number of possessions influences the number of rebounding chances you get, and not the number of scoring chances you get.
I can tell you are calm and thoughtful. Good work.
Spoiler:
-
- G.O.A.T.
- Posts: 42918
- Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:32 pm
Re: I hear this Anthony Edwards kid is a lot like Jordan...
**TDK wondering aloud if he writes in Chinese or Spanish bush might be able to understand that (again) no one cares about per100, per36, or those fake stats that are woefully flawed and misleading (the vast majority of them, anyway).**
Malone (in 1990) and Giannis (2023) took the same number of FGA per game and scored the same amount of Points per game, with Malone shooting slightly more efficiently.
Simple. It doesn't take charts, graphs, random made-up formulas, per100 possessions, etc. to draw that conclusion, professor... at least astute fans can do so rather easily, as I just illustrated.
Malone (in 1990) and Giannis (2023) took the same number of FGA per game and scored the same amount of Points per game, with Malone shooting slightly more efficiently.
Simple. It doesn't take charts, graphs, random made-up formulas, per100 possessions, etc. to draw that conclusion, professor... at least astute fans can do so rather easily, as I just illustrated.
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
- Bush4Ever.
- All-Time Great
- Posts: 13322
- Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:37 pm
Re: I hear this Anthony Edwards kid is a lot like Jordan...
dp
Last edited by Bush4Ever. on Tue May 07, 2024 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Bush4Ever.
- All-Time Great
- Posts: 13322
- Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:37 pm
Re: I hear this Anthony Edwards kid is a lot like Jordan...
For basketball, X number of shots take in X minutes often connotes something different than the same quantity of shots taken in a more compressed period of time. Generally, the more shots taken in the same period of time (all else equal), the lower will be the quality of shot, etc...
If Malone had played in the exact same way, in the exact same number of minutes as Giannis...he would have scored less in volume. Conversely, if Giannis had upped his minutes, it's likely he would have seen efficiency drops, all else being equal, unless he was really, really coasting and not emptying the tank in those 32 minutes/game. That's not "analytics" lol. That's basic basketball stuff.
Interestingly though, while I'm here....
Malone shot *worse* than Giannis is raw 2pt percentage...but better relative to the league (2pt+ of 116 for Malone and 109 for Giannis)...taking strict (dumb) 2pt percentage would actually flip Malone's clearly efficiency edge on 2s to a small, but clear edge to Giannis (59.6 on 2s vs. 56.7 on 2s) because of era differences!
But! Malone had a higher FG percentage than Giannis, despite a lower one on twos...why? Giannis bricklayered his head off from three that year and added a bunch of misses to the denominator of FGAs.
Malone averaged a TS+ of 117 that year to Giannis' 104, despite having only a 0.9% difference in raw FG percentage.
How?
Well...free throws. Giannis was a bricklayer and Malone was average....at gigantic free throw rates that added up over time to give Malone an edge in absolute terms (TS) and a big one in relative terms (TS+).
So we have two frameworks:
1. "These guys are almost exactly equal because they both averaged 31 a game on 20 shot attempts a game on virtually the same FG percentage (boomer analysis).
2. "Giannis was a more rapid scorer, but definitely less efficient, almost exclusively as a function of free throw shooting." (smart, handsome, modern analysis).
Suffice it to say, number two is closer to reality.
If Malone had played in the exact same way, in the exact same number of minutes as Giannis...he would have scored less in volume. Conversely, if Giannis had upped his minutes, it's likely he would have seen efficiency drops, all else being equal, unless he was really, really coasting and not emptying the tank in those 32 minutes/game. That's not "analytics" lol. That's basic basketball stuff.
Interestingly though, while I'm here....
Malone shot *worse* than Giannis is raw 2pt percentage...but better relative to the league (2pt+ of 116 for Malone and 109 for Giannis)...taking strict (dumb) 2pt percentage would actually flip Malone's clearly efficiency edge on 2s to a small, but clear edge to Giannis (59.6 on 2s vs. 56.7 on 2s) because of era differences!
But! Malone had a higher FG percentage than Giannis, despite a lower one on twos...why? Giannis bricklayered his head off from three that year and added a bunch of misses to the denominator of FGAs.
Malone averaged a TS+ of 117 that year to Giannis' 104, despite having only a 0.9% difference in raw FG percentage.
How?
Well...free throws. Giannis was a bricklayer and Malone was average....at gigantic free throw rates that added up over time to give Malone an edge in absolute terms (TS) and a big one in relative terms (TS+).
So we have two frameworks:
1. "These guys are almost exactly equal because they both averaged 31 a game on 20 shot attempts a game on virtually the same FG percentage (boomer analysis).
2. "Giannis was a more rapid scorer, but definitely less efficient, almost exclusively as a function of free throw shooting." (smart, handsome, modern analysis).
Suffice it to say, number two is closer to reality.
-
- G.O.A.T.
- Posts: 42918
- Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:32 pm
Re: I hear this Anthony Edwards kid is a lot like Jordan...
All that time wasted on formula's, number manipulation, "if this, if that", etc... and at the end of the day your "advanced analysis" yielded the same conclusions as TDK:Bush4Ever. wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2024 7:06 pm For basketball, X number of shots take in X minutes often connotes something different than the same quantity of shots taken in a more compressed period of time. Generally, the more shots taken in the same period of time (all else equal), the lower will be the quality of shot, etc...
If Malone had played in the exact same way, in the exact same number of minutes as Giannis...he would have scored less in volume. Conversely, if Giannis had upped his minutes, it's likely he would have seen efficiency drops, all else being equal, unless he was really, really coasting and not emptying the tank in those 32 minutes/game. That's not "analytics" lol. That's basic basketball stuff.
Interestingly though, while I'm here....
Malone shot *worse* than Giannis is raw 2pt percentage...but better relative to the league (2pt+ of 116 for Malone and 109 for Giannis)...taking strict (dumb) 2pt percentage would actually flip Malone's clearly efficiency edge on 2s to a small, but clear edge to Giannis (59.6 on 2s vs. 56.7 on 2s) because of era differences!
But! Malone had a higher FG percentage than Giannis, despite a lower one on twos...why? Giannis bricklayered his head off from three that year and added a bunch of misses to the denominator of FGAs.
Malone averaged a TS+ of 117 that year to Giannis' 104, despite having only a 0.9% difference in raw FG percentage.
How?
Well...free throws. Giannis was a bricklayer and Malone was average....at gigantic free throw rates that added up over time to give Malone an edge in absolute terms (TS) and a big one in relative terms (TS+).
So we have two frameworks:
1. "These guys are almost exactly equal because they both averaged 31 a game on 20 shot attempts a game on virtually the same FG percentage (boomer analysis).
2. "Giannis was a more rapid scorer, but definitely less efficient, almost exclusively as a function of free throw shooting." (smart, handsome, modern analysis).
Suffice it to say, number two is closer to reality.
- Both averaged 31
- Both took the same number of shots
- Malone was a little more Efficient shooter, while Giannis scored more Points per Minute
Again, that's EXACTLY what I said Mr. Modern Analysis.
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
- Bush4Ever.
- All-Time Great
- Posts: 13322
- Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:37 pm
Re: I hear this Anthony Edwards kid is a lot like Jordan...
He wasn't a little more efficient, he was a lot more efficient, in a way that is completely muted by looking at strict FG percentage or even strict TS. The *nature* of efficiency was also different than what you implied (Giannis is actually better than Malone in dumb 2pt percentage, but is so bad on FT it gets cancelled out and then some overall).
FFS, I was throwing you a bone and pointing out a comparison that actually benefited a geezer for a change.
lol
FFS, I was throwing you a bone and pointing out a comparison that actually benefited a geezer for a change.
lol
-
- G.O.A.T.
- Posts: 42918
- Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:32 pm
Re: I hear this Anthony Edwards kid is a lot like Jordan...
No, he wasn't.Bush4Ever. wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2024 9:14 pm He wasn't a little more efficient, he was a lot more efficient, in a way that is completely muted by looking at strict FG percentage or even strict TS. The *nature* of efficiency was also different than what you implied (Giannis is actually better than Malone in dumb 2pt percentage, but is so bad on FT it gets cancelled out and then some overall).
FFS, I was throwing you a bone and pointing out a comparison that actually benefited a geezer for a change.
lol
Malone: 11.1 FG's on 19.8 Attempts / .562%
Giannia: 11.2 FG's on 20.3 Attempts / .553%
Hardly "a lot" more Efficient... almost dead-even actually.
Yes Malone had a sizeable edge in FT% (.762% vs. ,645%) but FT's aren't the same as taking 12-15 foot jumpers or 3-pointers, etc, so I couldn't care less what TS% says, or what TS+ or BS, CBS or NBC has to say about it because those made-up stats are flawed and unreliable... but for the hell of it, Malone wasn't even "a lot" more efficient when you look at TS% either:
Malone: .626%
Giannis: .605%
More Efficient, yes... but again, hardly by "a lot".
And FTR, for as much of an edge Malone had in FT%, the raw numbers aren't all that significant:
Malone: 8.5 Made on 11.1 FTA
Giannis: 7.9 Made on 12.3 FTA
0.6 more Points per game on 1.2 fewer Attemptes is definitely an edge for Malone, but again, we're not talking about a Shaq/Wilt vs. Steph/Nash disparity here.
Malone was a little more Efficient. Not "a lot"... that much is clear without the use of "modern analysis".
"Today's NBA is soft, the Defense is weak, and the rules 'really' favor the Offense."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."
"Lebron doesn’t guard for a full game and our game plan was to get him to play defense and he left me open all game."