How MUCH better is Nikola Jokic than Larry Bird?

[Bush4Ever.]

Obviously, Jokic is better than Larry Bird prime to prime, peak to peak, etc...so lets' get beyond that fact quickly. The question is how MUCH better he is than Bird.

Take the best four year periods we've seen of Joker (2021-2024), and the best we saw from Larry Bird (1984-1987)....what did Bird actually do better than Joker?

Shoot? Not really.

Splits (3s/2s/1s/TS/TS+)
Bird: 40/52/89/58/approximately 107
Joker: 36/64/83/66/approximately 118

Note that the percentages tilt even more towards Joker in the playoffs vs. regular season. Note also that Joker's *relative* percentages are higher, not just absolute (so no "muh era" excuse).

Volume score?

Joker: 26.1/game
Bird: 26.6/game
Joker: 37.7/100 possessions
Bird: 32.6/100 possessions

Note that Joker outscores him by two points a game and about 10 points/100 possessions in the playoffs.

Rebound? lol

Rebounding percentage
Joker is at 20.2%
Bird's MAX percentage was 14.9%

Note that this holds almost exactly the same in the playoffs. No one except an insane person would contest this.

Passing? No. A little harder to purely quantify, but...

Assist percentage
Joker: 42.8 percent
Bird: 26.7 percent

Assists
Joker: 8.7
Bird: 6.9

Assists/TO ratio:
Joker: 2.56
Bird: 2.23

Defense, no advantage either way. If Bird holds any advantage, it's marginal (during his best years, not early in his career).

Joker has performed better in the playoffs. Joker has won a ring with a significantly less talented cast than any Bird title, and certainly the 84 and 86 titles. If he wins this year, he will have matched Bird's ring total from the mid-80s during his best years.

Sure, Bird should be ranked (for now) higher all-time for accumulated career value because he had almost a decade of high-level ball (very high in some cases) and Joker has only really been on that level for roughly half that time period, but in terms of comparing the best of each, it's a runaway victory for the modern guy over the old guy, which reflects the superiority of the younger generations compared to boomer heads and their allies in other generational cohorts.

So, since Joker is definitely better than Bird peak to peak and prime to prime, the question becomes how MUCH.

If we created an ordered categorical ranking like so:

Too close to call
Small Edge
Moderate Edge
Meaningful Edge
Crushingly Large Edge

I would vote somewhere between "moderate" and "meaningful", personally.

[Da Stars.]

Bushy, you trolling for a TDK.

[Bush4Ever.]

Bushy, you trolling for a TDK.

I'm not sure what you mean by "trolling"

[CleveTown™]

Joker...by two times.

[kobeunderbite]

He's a lot better. Bird is closer to Dirk or Raef Lafrentz than Jokic.

[Uncontroversial]

of all the boomers' favorite all time greats, Bird was the most overrated

[kobeunderbite]

Keith Van Horn would have put up Bird numbers in the 80's

[elartman1973]

Keith Van Horn would have put up Bird numbers in the 2020's

[manchild98]

I'd like to hear Bird's thoughts on Joker...and the comparison between the two. Bird is one of the few yesteryear player's who gives a lot of credit to current players.

[Havlicekstealsit]

I'd like to hear Bird's thoughts on Joker...and the comparison between the two. Bird is one of the few yesteryear player's who gives a lot of credit to current players.

[Robceltsfan]

Career vs. career....it's hard to argue Bird > Jokic.....but I will say that I think Bird would flourish more than any other player from "yesteryear" in today's NBA. I think he'd be a 30/10/10 guy with great frequency in the perimeter-centric version of the NBA.

But that's just a what if...

[manchild98]

I'd like to hear Bird's thoughts on Joker...and the comparison between the two. Bird is one of the few yesteryear player's who gives a lot of credit to current players.

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

More than most boomers would like to admit.

[elmerjfudd]

Bird fits in this era more than most but Rob is crazy if he thinks he puts up those stats. No player is putting up better numbers from an era 30 let alone 40 years ago.

Jokic has always been Big Bird to me, while being more skilled. It's fair to say he's the Bird of this era. It's a shame 6ers ownership and Embiid's health has hurt any chance of this being a east/west rivalry.

[Robceltsfan]

Bird fits in this era more than most but Rob is crazy if he thinks he puts up those stats. No player is putting up better numbers from an era 30 let alone 40 years ago.

Jokic has always been Big Bird to me, while being more skilled. It's fair to say he's the Bird of this era. It's a shame 6ers ownership and Embiid's health has hurt any chance of this being a east/west rivalry.

He was a 26/10/7 guy in the 80’s for a 7-year span. Prime Bird getting 30/10/10 in this era is almost a definite. He’s at LEAST as good as Luka.

[elartman1973]

All these losers like kobeunderballs and bush vastly like to hype cutmrrent players simply so they can claim lebron is better than jordan...which he isnt.
But imagine being consumer by this ..even just a little but much less fully.

Sad

[Havlicekstealsit]

cutmrrent

[PhutureDynasty]

Bird fits in this era more than most but Rob is crazy if he thinks he puts up those stats. No player is putting up better numbers from an era 30 let alone 40 years ago.

Jokic has always been Big Bird to me, while being more skilled. It's fair to say he's the Bird of this era. It's a shame 6ers ownership and Embiid's health has hurt any chance of this being a east/west rivalry.

[elmerjfudd]

Bird fits in this era more than most but Rob is crazy if he thinks he puts up those stats. No player is putting up better numbers from an era 30 let alone 40 years ago.

Jokic has always been Big Bird to me, while being more skilled. It's fair to say he's the Bird of this era. It's a shame 6ers ownership and Embiid's health has hurt any chance of this being a east/west rivalry.

He was a 26/10/7 guy in the 80’s for a 7-year span. Prime Bird getting 30/10/10 in this era is almost a definite. He’s at LEAST as good as Luka.

He's as good as Luka? He's more of a comparison to Jokic and he's a lesser version of him, while being an inferior passer. If Jokic was 6'9 he would be the closest thing to Bird and would not nearly be as good.

[elmerjfudd]

Bird fits in this era more than most but Rob is crazy if he thinks he puts up those stats. No player is putting up better numbers from an era 30 let alone 40 years ago.

Jokic has always been Big Bird to me, while being more skilled. It's fair to say he's the Bird of this era. It's a shame 6ers ownership and Embiid's health has hurt any chance of this being a east/west rivalry.

Embiid > Jokic when healthy