Some of you posters forget Lebron played in the LEASTern conference

[manchild98]

Regarding Lebron's 4-6 Finals record. His team was the betting favorite to win the series just 3 times.

2007 - Spurs -450. Cavs +360 (lost)
2011 - Heat -180. Mavs +160 (lost)
2012 - Thunder -160. Heat +140 (won)
2013 - Heat -240. Spurs +200 (won)
2014 - Spurs -125. Heat +105 (lost)
2015 - Warriors -190. Cavs +170 (lost)
2016 - Warriors -200. Cavs +162 (won)
2017 - Warriors -300. Cavs +250 (lost)
2018 - Warriors - 1075. Cavs +1000 (lost)
2020 - Lakers -330. Heat +265 (won)


Jordan Finals odds:

1991 -200
1992 -250
1993 -240
1996 -950
1997 -600
1998 -115

So 1998 was the only year they weren't a heavy favorite to win the championship. Side note they were -185 to beat Arty's Magic (+165) in 1995 and lost in 6 games....pretty much the same odds as the Heat/Mavs in 2011. But since the loss didn't happen in the Finals Jordan gets a free pass.

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

Objective hoops fans haven't forgotten about James spending 15 years in the EC when it was at its all-time weakest. In fact, that's one of many black-eyes on his resume... the fact that he (and his stacked Super Teams in Miami and Cleveland) had a virtual cakewalk to the Finals every year, much like Magic/Lakers in the WC during the 80's (of course the difference is that Magic actually went 5-4 in the Finals against the tougher EC, while the best LeFraud could do is a dismal 3-9 record going up against the better WC teams in the Finals).

Anyway, now that he's been playing in the tougher WC the past 6 seasons this is all you need to know about LeFraud:

2018-2019: No Playoffs (led Lakers to just 37 wins - lol)
2019-2020: Bubble Championship* (asterisk* season)
2020-2021: First Round Knockout (lost to Devin Booker making first playoff appearance - lolol)
2021-2022: No Playoffs (despite having 5 future HOF teammates around him - beyond embarrassing)
2022-2023: Swept out of the WCF (by Jokic and 11 role-players)

Pretty damn pathetic for a player who "some" are foolishly trying to pass off as the GOAT... and this year may very well see LeFraud finishing as the 9th or 10th seed which TECHNICALLY means a 3rd "non" playoff season in 6 years playing in the Western Conference. But alas, as has been the case throughout his entire career, the league bends over backwards to coddle and pamper LeBaby, and in this case Silver created the play-in a few years ago to give LeFraud the best odds possible to get to the playoffs in a much tougher Conference.

As noted: LeBron is a Fraud.

Your pure hatred of LeBron (actually, more your protectiveness of MJ which leads to your hatred of anyone compared to him) comes through bright and shiny again.

A little context to your assertions.

2018-2019: When LeBron played, the Lakers were 28-27. When he didn't play, they were 9-18. Pretty meaningful impact.
2020. Nothing asterisk about it. They won the title in pretty dominating fashion. Everyone had the same conditions.
2021. Sure, lost to the Suns, but that team went to the Finals. They weren't chopped liver. When LeBron played that season, they were 30-15. When he was injured, they were 12-15.
2022. Five future HOFers? Well, without LeBron playing, those 5 future HOFers had a combined record of 8-18 that season. The moniker future HOFers needs context. Just throwing it out there like Melo, Howard and Rondo weren't on their absolute last legs is a little biased, don't you think?
2023: They lost to the eventual champions. They beat 2 higher seeds to make the conference final. Again, they also had a better record when LeBron played than when he didn't. See how much different you can make the narrative sound?

2019: Injuries are NO excuse (as you yourself have noted MANY times over the years), plus a 28-27 record still wouldn't have been good enough for the playoffs.
2020: Playing games in empty stadiums = an absolute *asterisk* season no matter how you try and spin it.
2021: LeBron lost to a virtual nobody (at the time) in the first round with PRIME Anthony Davis. 'Nuff said.
2022: Davis, Westbrook, Melo, Howard and Rondo = no playoffs. Inexcusable.
2023: LeBron (with prime future HOFER Davis, and All-Star caliber Russell) got swept by Jokic and 11 role-players. Again, 'nuff said.

Those are facts no matter how you try and spin it... since moving to the WC LeBron has 2 lottery's, 1 first-round exit, one embarrassing Sweep and 1 *asterisk* Championship in 5 years.

Certainly a far, faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar cry from the success he had playing 15 years in the East (when it was the weakest its ever been).

2019: The gulf between how the team played with him and without him can't be sloughed off like you do. MJ had seasons under .500 on a lot of occasions that you give him a pass for and yet you want to condemn LeBron for being above .500 when he played because it suits your narrative. Without him, they were a team that won games equivalent to 27 over an 82 game schedule.

2020: Everybody had the same conditions. You could argue they didn't get to benefit from home court crowds which they would have if it had been under normal circumstances. Again, it is just a narrative. They won the ring, and he was finals MVP, no matter how much it chaps your butt.

2021: The Suns were 51-21 and had Chris Paul, Ayton and others, not just Booker. Over 82 games, the Suns were a 58 win team and they made the NBA finals ya retard. And rather than blaming LeBron, maybe look around a bit. LeBron held up his end of the bargain and AD played like poop. He shot 40% from the field, 18% from 3 and got outrebounded by LeBron for chrissakes.

2022: Without LeBron 8-18 for those HOFers?? GTFO here pretending those guys weren't done like dinner. That's a 25 game win clip for 82 games TDK. If the year had been 2009, that argument would make a lot more sense. It was 2022, not 2009.

2023: They beat two higher seeds and lost to the NBA champions. Their record with LeBron was again better than without, as it always has been for every team he has ever played for. For his career, the discrepancy in team records when he plays versus when he doesn't is absolutely astounding. You just don't like to see that part of the equation.

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

Regarding Lebron's 4-6 Finals record. His team was the betting favorite to win the series just 3 times.

2007 - Spurs -450. Cavs +360 (lost)
2011 - Heat -180. Mavs +160 (lost)
2012 - Thunder -160. Heat +140 (won)
2013 - Heat -240. Spurs +200 (won)
2014 - Spurs -125. Heat +105 (lost)
2015 - Warriors -190. Cavs +170 (lost)
2016 - Warriors -200. Cavs +162 (won)
2017 - Warriors -300. Cavs +250 (lost)
2018 - Warriors - 1075. Cavs +1000 (lost)
2020 - Lakers -330. Heat +265 (won)


Jordan Finals odds:

1991 -200
1992 -250
1993 -240
1996 -950
1997 -600
1998 -115

So 1998 was the only year they weren't a heavy favorite to win the championship. Side note they were -185 to beat Arty's Magic (+165) in 1995 and lost in 6 games....pretty much the same odds as the Heat/Mavs in 2011. But since the loss didn't happen in the Finals Jordan gets a free pass.

The one that is just over the top ridiculous is the 2007 series versus the Spurs. The fact he got the Cavs to the finals with an incredible performance against the Pistons with a team that had no business getting anywhere near the finals is held against him? That's freaking retarded.

[Alex_Murphy]

Regarding Lebron's 4-6 Finals record. His team was the betting favorite to win the series just 3 times.

2007 - Spurs -450. Cavs +360 (lost)
2011 - Heat -180. Mavs +160 (lost)
2012 - Thunder -160. Heat +140 (won)
2013 - Heat -240. Spurs +200 (won)
2014 - Spurs -125. Heat +105 (lost)
2015 - Warriors -190. Cavs +170 (lost)
2016 - Warriors -200. Cavs +162 (won)
2017 - Warriors -300. Cavs +250 (lost)
2018 - Warriors - 1075. Cavs +1000 (lost)
2020 - Lakers -330. Heat +265 (won)


Jordan Finals odds:

1991 -200
1992 -250
1993 -240
1996 -950
1997 -600
1998 -115

So 1998 was the only year they weren't a heavy favorite to win the championship. Side note they were -185 to beat Arty's Magic (+165) in 1995 and lost in 6 games....pretty much the same odds as the Heat/Mavs in 2011. But since the loss didn't happen in the Finals Jordan gets a free pass.

The one that is just over the top ridiculous is the 2007 series versus the Spurs. The fact he got the Cavs to the finals with an incredible performance against the Pistons with a team that had no business getting anywhere near the finals is held against him? That's freaking retarded.

You’re basically putting the spurs on a pedestal just to give LeBron a pass for not winning that year in the finals.

[manchild98]

Regarding Lebron's 4-6 Finals record. His team was the betting favorite to win the series just 3 times.

2007 - Spurs -450. Cavs +360 (lost)
2011 - Heat -180. Mavs +160 (lost)
2012 - Thunder -160. Heat +140 (won)
2013 - Heat -240. Spurs +200 (won)
2014 - Spurs -125. Heat +105 (lost)
2015 - Warriors -190. Cavs +170 (lost)
2016 - Warriors -200. Cavs +162 (won)
2017 - Warriors -300. Cavs +250 (lost)
2018 - Warriors - 1075. Cavs +1000 (lost)
2020 - Lakers -330. Heat +265 (won)


Jordan Finals odds:

1991 -200
1992 -250
1993 -240
1996 -950
1997 -600
1998 -115

So 1998 was the only year they weren't a heavy favorite to win the championship. Side note they were -185 to beat Arty's Magic (+165) in 1995 and lost in 6 games....pretty much the same odds as the Heat/Mavs in 2011. But since the loss didn't happen in the Finals Jordan gets a free pass.

The one that is just over the top ridiculous is the 2007 series versus the Spurs. The fact he got the Cavs to the finals with an incredible performance against the Pistons with a team that had no business getting anywhere near the finals is held against him? That's freaking retarded.

The NBA is a chalk league. There are few upsets in the Finals. You typically have to be the #1 or #2 seed in your conference to even have a chance to win the title. Since 1979 these are the seeds that won the championship.

#1 seed - won 30 times
#2 seed - won 8 times
#3 seed - won 6 times
#6 seed - won 1 time

Since 1979, only 6 teams seeded outside the top 3 seeds in their conference have ever made the Finals. 3 of those times have happened in the last 6 years (Cavs and Heat twice). Only the #6 Rockets won a title. Everyone else lost.

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

Regarding Lebron's 4-6 Finals record. His team was the betting favorite to win the series just 3 times.

2007 - Spurs -450. Cavs +360 (lost)
2011 - Heat -180. Mavs +160 (lost)
2012 - Thunder -160. Heat +140 (won)
2013 - Heat -240. Spurs +200 (won)
2014 - Spurs -125. Heat +105 (lost)
2015 - Warriors -190. Cavs +170 (lost)
2016 - Warriors -200. Cavs +162 (won)
2017 - Warriors -300. Cavs +250 (lost)
2018 - Warriors - 1075. Cavs +1000 (lost)
2020 - Lakers -330. Heat +265 (won)


Jordan Finals odds:

1991 -200
1992 -250
1993 -240
1996 -950
1997 -600
1998 -115

So 1998 was the only year they weren't a heavy favorite to win the championship. Side note they were -185 to beat Arty's Magic (+165) in 1995 and lost in 6 games....pretty much the same odds as the Heat/Mavs in 2011. But since the loss didn't happen in the Finals Jordan gets a free pass.

The one that is just over the top ridiculous is the 2007 series versus the Spurs. The fact he got the Cavs to the finals with an incredible performance against the Pistons with a team that had no business getting anywhere near the finals is held against him? That's freaking retarded.

The NBA is a chalk league. There are few upsets in the Finals. You typically have to be the #1 or #2 seed in your conference to even have a chance to win the title. Since 1979 these are the seeds that won the championship.

#1 seed - won 30 times
#2 seed - won 8 times
#3 seed - won 6 times
#6 seed - won 1 time

Since 1979, only 6 teams seeded outside the top 3 seeds in their conference have ever made the Finals. 3 of those times have happened in the last 6 years (Cavs and Heat twice). Only the #6 Rockets won a title. Everyone else lost.

Very good points. There have been many years in the past where even before the season started, you knew there were only 3-4 legitimate candidates to win it all, and even that might be a stretch. Injuries have kind of derailed things a bit this year, but prior to the season starting, there were more teams with a legitimate chance to win the title than pretty much any year I can remember. It makes for better theater, with far less predictability.

[LeBronMonsterDunk]

Number1LeBronFan has spent 12 hours a day for the past 21 years thinking about LeBron, and LeBron doesn't even know he exists.

[Da Stars.]

Regarding Lebron's 4-6 Finals record. His team was the betting favorite to win the series just 3 times.

2007 - Spurs -450. Cavs +360 (lost)
2011 - Heat -180. Mavs +160 (lost)
2012 - Thunder -160. Heat +140 (won)
2013 - Heat -240. Spurs +200 (won)
2014 - Spurs -125. Heat +105 (lost)
2015 - Warriors -190. Cavs +170 (lost)
2016 - Warriors -200. Cavs +162 (won)
2017 - Warriors -300. Cavs +250 (lost)
2018 - Warriors - 1075. Cavs +1000 (lost)
2020 - Lakers -330. Heat +265 (won)


Jordan Finals odds:

1991 -200
1992 -250
1993 -240
1996 -950
1997 -600
1998 -115

So 1998 was the only year they weren't a heavy favorite to win the championship. Side note they were -185 to beat Arty's Magic (+165) in 1995 and lost in 6 games....pretty much the same odds as the Heat/Mavs in 2011. But since the loss didn't happen in the Finals Jordan gets a free pass.

In your humble opinion, why do people give MJ the free pass and rag on LJ.

[Kingcarl24]

Some may say the bubble championship was harder to win given the circumstances.

To me, it's neutral, one way or the other. You can quibble about home court advantage I suppose, but the Lakers were the number 1 seed in the West and had a better record than Boston in the east, so that didn't factor into anything. You can only play in the circumstances presented. They did, and they won.

I agree.

[manchild98]

"In your humble opinion, why do people give MJ the free pass and rag on LJ."

I don't think it's unique to Jordan. Fans in all sports penalize you when you lose in the Finals and don't when you don't even make it. The Bills lost 4 Super Bowls. No one would have cared had they made the playoffs for 4 years but lost prior to the Super Bowl. Tom Brady is 7-2 in the Super Bowl. No one talks about when he lost in the playoffs prior to the Super Bowl.

[elartman1973]

"LeBron played in a weak Eastern Conference."

"Jordan played in a diluted league."

"Russell played against 5'9" white insurance salesmen."

"Kareem only won once without Magic and it was pre-merger."

Am I missing any of the GOAT criticism karaoke?

Do kobe

[PhutureDynasty]

"LeBron played in a weak Eastern Conference."

"Jordan played in a diluted league."

"Russell played against 5'9" white insurance salesmen."

"Kareem only won once without Magic and it was pre-merger."

Am I missing any of the GOAT criticism karaoke?

Do kobe

I said GOATs, meaning people I believe have an argument to be the greatest of all time. That's why I only included those 4 gentlemen.

That said, Kobe's would be...

"Selfish teammate who never won without an All-Star big and Phil Jackson."

[thedangerouskitchen]

Regarding Lebron's 4-6 Finals record. His team was the betting favorite to win the series just 3 times.

2007 - Spurs -450. Cavs +360 (lost)
2011 - Heat -180. Mavs +160 (lost)
2012 - Thunder -160. Heat +140 (won)
2013 - Heat -240. Spurs +200 (won)
2014 - Spurs -125. Heat +105 (lost)
2015 - Warriors -190. Cavs +170 (lost)
2016 - Warriors -200. Cavs +162 (won)
2017 - Warriors -300. Cavs +250 (lost)
2018 - Warriors - 1075. Cavs +1000 (lost)
2020 - Lakers -330. Heat +265 (won)


Jordan Finals odds:

1991 -200
1992 -250
1993 -240
1996 -950
1997 -600
1998 -115

So 1998 was the only year they weren't a heavy favorite to win the championship. Side note they were -185 to beat Arty's Magic (+165) in 1995 and lost in 6 games....pretty much the same odds as the Heat/Mavs in 2011. But since the loss didn't happen in the Finals Jordan gets a free pass.

Maybe if LeBron was as great as advertised he would have led his teams to better Regular Season records, so he would have been favored in the Finals more often...



Jordan was almost always favored because a) the oddsmakers KNEW he was the ultimate winner, b) he played when the EC was (arguably) stronger than ever, so by the time the Finals rolled around MJ had already beaten teams that were just as good or even better than his Finals opponents, and c) Jordan never lost to a team he was favored to beat.

LeFraud, on the other hand, had a virtual free pass to the Finals every year, and many times didn't face his first "real test" until the Finals, where he often a) faced an opponent with a better RS record, and thus, a higher seed, and b) faced an opponent that had a much tougher road TO the Finals (which is why those teams were favored over James).

In either case it's another black eye on LeBron's legacy/resume, and just one more reason why he can't touch MJ as the GOAT.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Regarding Lebron's 4-6 Finals record. His team was the betting favorite to win the series just 3 times.

2007 - Spurs -450. Cavs +360 (lost)
2011 - Heat -180. Mavs +160 (lost)
2012 - Thunder -160. Heat +140 (won)
2013 - Heat -240. Spurs +200 (won)
2014 - Spurs -125. Heat +105 (lost)
2015 - Warriors -190. Cavs +170 (lost)
2016 - Warriors -200. Cavs +162 (won)
2017 - Warriors -300. Cavs +250 (lost)
2018 - Warriors - 1075. Cavs +1000 (lost)
2020 - Lakers -330. Heat +265 (won)


Jordan Finals odds:

1991 -200
1992 -250
1993 -240
1996 -950
1997 -600
1998 -115

So 1998 was the only year they weren't a heavy favorite to win the championship. Side note they were -185 to beat Arty's Magic (+165) in 1995 and lost in 6 games....pretty much the same odds as the Heat/Mavs in 2011. But since the loss didn't happen in the Finals Jordan gets a free pass.

The one that is just over the top ridiculous is the 2007 series versus the Spurs. The fact he got the Cavs to the finals with an incredible performance against the Pistons with a team that had no business getting anywhere near the finals is held against him? That's freaking retarded.

You’re basically putting the spurs on a pedestal just to give LeBron a pass for not winning that year in the finals.

LeBron Homers are famous for double-standards and massive excuse-making when it comes to their hero.

It's laughable.

[Da Stars.]

After LeBron won his second title, LeBron has not made the first or second all defensive team.