Lakers 9-1 last 10 games

[Bush4Ever.]

You have no point, except the one on top of your head.

By all expert accounts that I've read, the Lakers have looked like a much better TEAM in the games LeFraud misses.

The entire nature of your relationship flipped on the basis of a single game lol. Going from "Lebron should come off the bench because the Lakers have a better record without him" to "Lebron should get more minutes because the Lakers have a better record with him" lmao

By the way, in terms on on/off and +/- for Lebron this year, he ranks in the vicinity of 7th or so this year.

https://dunksandthrees.com/epm
https://www.basketball-reference.com/le ... aders.html

AD is around 15th or so IIRC. Obviously, both Lebron and AD are huge net positives for the Lakers, and both need to bring A+ games to win anything meaningful in the playoffs. No one with a brain would deny either point.

Do NOT respond to this post with autism.

[LeBronMonsterDunk]

Seems the Lakers might want to start thinking about playing LeFraud a lot less

Once again the Lakers could have used their "leader" (lol) in a BIG game last night

Not even 12 hours apart



Imagine being such an old fucking loser looool

[thedangerouskitchen]

You have no point, except the one on top of your head.

By all expert accounts that I've read, the Lakers have looked like a much better TEAM in the games LeFraud misses.

The entire nature of your relationship flipped on the basis of a single game lol. Going from "Lebron should come off the bench because the Lakers have a better record without him" to "Lebron should get more minutes because the Lakers have a better record with him" lmao

By the way, in terms on on/off and +/- for Lebron this year, he ranks in the vicinity of 7th or so this year.

https://dunksandthrees.com/epm
https://www.basketball-reference.com/le ... aders.html

AD is around 15th or so IIRC. Obviously, both Lebron and AD are huge net positives for the Lakers, and both need to bring A+ games to win anything meaningful in the playoffs. No one with a brain would deny either point.

Do NOT respond to this post with autism.

I never said the Lakers should play LeFraud more (because they have a better record with him); you edited my post to read that, fool.



BTW: +/- is arguably THE most flawed of all those highly flawed made-up stats you worship as gospel. LeFraud has proven throughout 21 years to be the most "empty stats" star in NBA history.

[Bush4Ever.]

Do NOT respond to this post with autism.

autism

You didn't listen to me

[thedangerouskitchen]

Seems the Lakers might want to start thinking about playing LeFraud a lot less

Once again the Lakers could have used their "leader" (lol) in a BIG game last night

Not even 12 hours apart



Imagine being such an old fucking loser looool

The point being, "after" AD went down they could have used their (alleged) "leader" LeFraud, but he was too busy recovering from the sniffles.



When Davis played in the 1st Quarter last night, the Lakers were rolling and would have likely ran their record to 7-4 when Davis plays (a full game, not just one quarter) and LeFraud sits.

Facts.

[Robceltsfan]

+/- and on/off are literally how the TEAM performs while said player is on the floor. There's nothing made up about it. It's one of the best measures (over large numbers of games) that you can use.

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

You have no point, except the one on top of your head.

By all expert accounts that I've read, the Lakers have looked like a much better TEAM in the games LeFraud misses.

The entire nature of your relationship flipped on the basis of a single game lol. Going from "Lebron should come off the bench because the Lakers have a better record without him" to "Lebron should get more minutes because the Lakers have a better record with him" lmao

By the way, in terms on on/off and +/- for Lebron this year, he ranks in the vicinity of 7th or so this year.

https://dunksandthrees.com/epm
https://www.basketball-reference.com/le ... aders.html

AD is around 15th or so IIRC. Obviously, both Lebron and AD are huge net positives for the Lakers, and both need to bring A+ games to win anything meaningful in the playoffs. No one with a brain would deny either point.

Do NOT respond to this post with autism.

I never said the Lakers should play LeFraud more (because they have a better record with him); you edited my post to read that, fool.



BTW: +/- is arguably THE most flawed of all those highly flawed made-up stats you worship as gospel. LeFraud has proven throughout 21 years to be the most "empty stats" star in NBA history.

+/- can be very misleading and close to useless in small samples for obvious reasons. Over very large sample sizes though, it is a very telling statistic and really is where the rubber hits the road.

And by the way, commenting that the Lakers would have won, just because they were up by 4 when AD went out is just more of your idiocy. Seriously dude? They lost by 10, and the bench generally had a bad game. Could they have won if AD played the whole game?" Maybe, but it is hardly a given. Teams come back from 30 down in this league and win. Suggesting the Wolves would have lost just because they were down by 4 is just your LeBron Derangement Syndrome in full flight.

[Bush4Ever.]

Raw +/- does have problems in small samples and can even be problematic/noisy in larger samples to some degree, which is why I linked EPM (which happens to correlated to box +/- in his case, but need not correlate), which is prior-informed (among other things, the methods can be seen here: https://dunksandthrees.com/about/epm)

Moreover, it has a lot of face validity. The names towards the top, and rank ordering (approximately) match what my eyes tell me in the all-mighty "eye test" as well. Super granular questions like whether or not Lebron has been 1 percent better than Kawhi this year or 1 percent worse are not possible to answer with any singular statistic, but that's not really (hopefully) what it's used for.

[thedangerouskitchen]

+/- and on/off are literally how the TEAM performs while said player is on the floor. There's nothing made up about it. It's one of the best measures (over large numbers of games) that you can use.

It's "made-up" because it's HIGHLY Flawed and does not paint a consistent/accurate/reliable picture of a player's impact on/off the floor with respect to using said stat to compare players to one another on an apples-to-apples basis... and anyone who does not undertand this (obvious) fact should probably refrain from discussing hoops.

Just sayin'...

[Robceltsfan]

+/- and on/off are literally how the TEAM performs while said player is on the floor. There's nothing made up about it. It's one of the best measures (over large numbers of games) that you can use.

It's "made-up" because it's HIGHLY Flawed and does not paint a consistent/accurate/reliable picture of a player's impact on/off the floor with respect to using said stat to compare players to one another on an apples-to-apples basis... and anyone who does not undertand this (obvious) fact should probably refrain from discussing hoops.

Just sayin'...

Au contraire...it's a VERY reliable and consistent picture over large data sets. Very, very reliable.

[elartman1973]

BTW kobeunderballs..Lakers and magic do not have the same record ..and magic are 3 seed fighting for 2 seed while lakers may miss the playoffs altogether..so walk it off chump

[thedangerouskitchen]

The entire nature of your relationship flipped on the basis of a single game lol. Going from "Lebron should come off the bench because the Lakers have a better record without him" to "Lebron should get more minutes because the Lakers have a better record with him" lmao

By the way, in terms on on/off and +/- for Lebron this year, he ranks in the vicinity of 7th or so this year.

https://dunksandthrees.com/epm
https://www.basketball-reference.com/le ... aders.html

AD is around 15th or so IIRC. Obviously, both Lebron and AD are huge net positives for the Lakers, and both need to bring A+ games to win anything meaningful in the playoffs. No one with a brain would deny either point.

Do NOT respond to this post with autism.

I never said the Lakers should play LeFraud more (because they have a better record with him); you edited my post to read that, fool.



BTW: +/- is arguably THE most flawed of all those highly flawed made-up stats you worship as gospel. LeFraud has proven throughout 21 years to be the most "empty stats" star in NBA history.

+/- can be very misleading and close to useless in small samples for obvious reasons. Over very large sample sizes though, it is a very telling statistic and really is where the rubber hits the road.

And by the way, commenting that the Lakers would have won, just because they were up by 4 when AD went out is just more of your idiocy. Seriously dude? They lost by 10, and the bench generally had a bad game. Could they have won if AD played the whole game?" Maybe, but it is hardly a given. Teams come back from 30 down in this league and win. Suggesting the Wolves would have lost just because they were down by 4 is just your LeBron Derangement Syndrome in full flight.

It's no more idiotic than your fellow BWGC pal trying to give LeFraud importance by conveniently forgetting to mention the Lakers lost last night withOut LeFraud "and" Davis, meatball.



Now go fix me a sammich...

[Bush4Ever.]

It's unfortunate we only have 1,402 minutes of Lebronless Lakers basketball to analyze this year.

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

How's this for an "empty stat" TDK. Up to and including December 26, 2016, in his last 3 season with the Cavs in his second run with them, when LeBron played, the team was 129-43. When he missed, the team was 4-17. I'm sure it's a coincidence.

The numbers were even more startling in his first go around after his first few seasons. The team was absolute dogshit without him. For example, in 2007-2008, LeBron played 75 games. They were 45-30 when he played. They were 0-7 when he didn't. The following season, they won 66 games. They lost the only game LeBron didn't play that season. In his final season, they won 61 of the 76 games he played. They were 1-5 without him. So, for his last 3 seasons before heading to Miami, they were 171-60 when he played, and 1-13 when he didn't. Another coincidence I'm sure.

When LeBron left for Miami, the team went from 61 wins and 66 wins to 21 wins and 19 wins. There were other minor changes, but by far the biggest change was LeBron leaving. The impact was staggering. Same when he came back. They went from 33 wins to 53 wins. Yeah, there were other changes there too, but by far the biggest was adding LeBron. And when LeBron left to go to the Lakers, the team went from 50 wins to 19.

You can try to suck and whistle at the same time all you want TDK, but those are hard numbers. Your single minded obsession with LeBron because he somehow threatens your ego and its affiliation with MJ and the 90s Bulls just prevents you from seeing or acknowledging them.

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

TDK being absolutely ragdolled as usual and too dumb and with too much cognitive bias to realize it.

[thedangerouskitchen]

+/- and on/off are literally how the TEAM performs while said player is on the floor. There's nothing made up about it. It's one of the best measures (over large numbers of games) that you can use.

It's "made-up" because it's HIGHLY Flawed and does not paint a consistent/accurate/reliable picture of a player's impact on/off the floor with respect to using said stat to compare players to one another on an apples-to-apples basis... and anyone who does not undertand this (obvious) fact should probably refrain from discussing hoops.

Just sayin'...

Au contraire...it's a VERY reliable and consistent picture over large data sets. Very, very reliable.

Wrong.

+/- yields a result that's a function of the caliber of teammates a given player has around him while he's on the floor vs. the caliber of teammates on the floor when said player is on bench.

If that (alone) doesn't tell you why +/- it's so heavily flawed (especially if you want to use this stat to compare players on different teams and/or from different eras) then I don't know what to tell ya.

[Robceltsfan]

It's "made-up" because it's HIGHLY Flawed and does not paint a consistent/accurate/reliable picture of a player's impact on/off the floor with respect to using said stat to compare players to one another on an apples-to-apples basis... and anyone who does not undertand this (obvious) fact should probably refrain from discussing hoops.

Just sayin'...

Au contraire...it's a VERY reliable and consistent picture over large data sets. Very, very reliable.

Wrong.

+/- yields a result that's a function of the caliber of teammates a given player has around him while he's on the floor vs. the caliber of teammates on the floor when said player is on bench.

If that (alone) doesn't tell you why +/- it's so heavily flawed (especially if you want to use this stat to compare players on different teams and/or from different eras) then I don't know what to tell ya.

You're not thinking very logically, TDK. If your team is really good around you, it makes it difficult for your on/off to be higher relative to other players. In other words, if said player leaves the floor, and the supposed "good team" is still out there maintaining or increasing the lead, said player's on/off numbers are going to drop.

You're not particularly intelligent, are you?

[thedangerouskitchen]

How's this for an "empty stat" TDK. Up to and including December 26, 2016, in his last 3 season with the Cavs in his second run with them, when LeBron played, the team was 129-43. When he missed, the team was 4-17. I'm sure it's a coincidence.

The numbers were even more startling in his first go around after his first few seasons. The team was absolute dogshit without him. For example, in 2007-2008, LeBron played 75 games. They were 45-30 when he played. They were 0-7 when he didn't. The following season, they won 66 games. They lost the only game LeBron didn't play that season. In his final season, they won 61 of the 76 games he played. They were 1-5 without him. So, for his last 3 seasons before heading to Miami, they were 171-60 when he played, and 1-13 when he didn't. Another coincidence I'm sure.

When LeBron left for Miami, the team went from 61 wins and 66 wins to 21 wins and 19 wins. There were other minor changes, but by far the biggest change was LeBron leaving. The impact was staggering. Same when he came back. They went from 33 wins to 53 wins. Yeah, there were other changes there too, but by far the biggest was adding LeBron. And when LeBron left to go to the Lakers, the team went from 50 wins to 19.

You can try to suck and whistle at the same time all you want TDK, but those are hard numbers. Your single minded obsession with LeBron because he somehow threatens your ego and its affiliation with MJ and the 90s Bulls just prevents you from seeing or acknowledging them.

**YAAAAAAAWN**

Great job of highlighting one (1) side of the story while ignoring many other factors involved in the success (lack thereof) from those teams, pre/present/post LeFraud:

- The 2008 Cavs won just 45 games with LeFraud... in 2009 they won 66 games and the ONLY change was the addition of All Star Mo Williams. The next year the Cavs added Shaq AND a 20-PPG Scorer mid season (Jamison) and the team won 61 games. The following year (after LeFraud ran chicken to the Heat) Shaq left, while Mo, Jamison and Varejao missed 123 games combined.

But of course it's just a "minor" setback when your team loses its three (3) best players for huge chunks of the season (not to mention a HOF Center).



- The 2019 Cavs failed to add any significant pieces to the team after LeFraud left... so essentially the Cavs went from a team where all the pieces were hand-picked to suit James' style of play, to a team with zero identity. No surprise they won only 19 games... oh yeah, and their BEST player that year also missed 60 games.

Another "minor" setback of course.



...and don't get me started on his MASSIVE failures while with the Lakers.

Face it: ANY player who is as great as you/others make him out to be is NOT going to have anywhere even remotely close to as many black-eyes, flaws, and under-achieving moments as LeFraud.

Facts.

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

How's this for an "empty stat" TDK. Up to and including December 26, 2016, in his last 3 season with the Cavs in his second run with them, when LeBron played, the team was 129-43. When he missed, the team was 4-17. I'm sure it's a coincidence.

The numbers were even more startling in his first go around after his first few seasons. The team was absolute dogshit without him. For example, in 2007-2008, LeBron played 75 games. They were 45-30 when he played. They were 0-7 when he didn't. The following season, they won 66 games. They lost the only game LeBron didn't play that season. In his final season, they won 61 of the 76 games he played. They were 1-5 without him. So, for his last 3 seasons before heading to Miami, they were 171-60 when he played, and 1-13 when he didn't. Another coincidence I'm sure.

When LeBron left for Miami, the team went from 61 wins and 66 wins to 21 wins and 19 wins. There were other minor changes, but by far the biggest change was LeBron leaving. The impact was staggering. Same when he came back. They went from 33 wins to 53 wins. Yeah, there were other changes there too, but by far the biggest was adding LeBron. And when LeBron left to go to the Lakers, the team went from 50 wins to 19.

You can try to suck and whistle at the same time all you want TDK, but those are hard numbers. Your single minded obsession with LeBron because he somehow threatens your ego and its affiliation with MJ and the 90s Bulls just prevents you from seeing or acknowledging them.

**YAAAAAAAWN**

Great job of highlighting one (1) side of the story while ignoring many other factors involved in the success (lack thereof) from those teams, pre/present/post LeFraud:

- The 2008 Cavs won just 45 games with LeFraud... in 2009 they won 66 games and the ONLY change was the addition of All Star Mo Williams. The next year the Cavs added Shaq AND a 20-PPG Scorer mid season (Jamison) and the team won 61 games. The following year (after LeFraud ran chicken to the Heat) Shaq left, while Mo, Jamison and Varejao missed 123 games combined.

But of course it's just a "minor" setback when your team loses its three (3) best players for huge chunks of the season (not to mention a HOF Center).



- The 2019 Cavs failed to add any significant pieces to the team after LeFraud left... so essentially the Cavs went from a team where all the pieces were hand-picked to suit James' style of play, to a team with zero identity. No surprise they won only 19 games... oh yeah, and their BEST player that year also missed 60 games.

Another "minor" setback of course.



...and don't get me started on his MASSIVE failures while with the Lakers.

Face it: ANY player who is as great as you/others make him out to be is NOT going to have anywhere even remotely close to as many black-eyes, flaws, and under-achieving moments as LeFraud.

Facts.

They couldn't win without LeBron before or after him and when he was there, when he didn't play. Those are the facts TDK, that you conveniently ignore. Whether Shaq played or not was irrelevant to the record. Whether Jamison played or not (and it was the tail end of the season) was irrelevant. Whether Mo played or not was irrelevant. What mattered was whether LeBron played. Period. Funny that you mention the 45 win season, but conveniently gloss over the fact they were 0-7 when LeBron didn't play? Isn't that convenient. The depths of despair when he wasn't there, compared to the win totals when he was there are not a "little" gulf. They are oceanic.

[LeBronMonsterDunk]

Seems the Lakers might want to start thinking about playing LeFraud a lot less

Once again the Lakers could have used their "leader" (lol) in a BIG game last night

Not even 12 hours apart



Imagine being such an old fucking loser looool

True