NBA MVP Shares Top-10 All-Time

[wailuaFC]

I said there are stats based on fundamental facts/truths as we know them to be (ie; raw stats), and then there are stats that are created by plugging random numbers into arbitrary (ie; made-up) formulas designed to yield a "guess" BUT subject to errors and flaws (some of them extreme)... unless, for example, you really believe Scottie Pippen was just the 135th best player in history (based on PER?)?

Glad we can agree on the fundamental truth that AI is equal to Jordan defensively and way better than players like Payton, pippen, and rodman

Stick to being the board Nice Guy... trolling clearly isn't your thing.

I’m not trolling at all. You told me what stats matter so I’m using your preferred stats to educate myself. I’ve learned, because of your real stats, that AI defensively was greater than or equal to Jordan, pippen, and Rodman.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Glad we can agree on the fundamental truth that AI is equal to Jordan defensively and way better than players like Payton, pippen, and rodman

Stick to being the board Nice Guy... trolling clearly isn't your thing.

I’m not trolling at all. You told me what stats matter so I’m using your preferred stats to educate myself. I’ve learned, because of your real stats, that AI defensively was greater than or equal to Jordan, pippen, and Rodman.

Actually what you should have learned is that Iverson is CLEARLY rightthere with the best-of-the-best when it comes to "Steals Per Game" (dude led the league 3-times, and is #8 all-time), but of course, we all should know that no one (1) stat is sufficient for measuring any facet of the game, and that's especially true for Defense. In fact, "stats" overall (raw stats, and those fake ones that you hold in such high esteem) only tell a fraction of the story when it comes to Defensive impact.

It seems, in your efforts to educate yourself on the teachings of TDK, that you weren't paying full attention... better sharpen up that pencil and head on back to the books, little buckaroo.

[wailuaFC]

Stick to being the board Nice Guy... trolling clearly isn't your thing.

I’m not trolling at all. You told me what stats matter so I’m using your preferred stats to educate myself. I’ve learned, because of your real stats, that AI defensively was greater than or equal to Jordan, pippen, and Rodman.

Actually what you should have learned is that Iverson is CLEARLY rightthere with the best-of-the-best when it comes to "Steals Per Game" (dude led the league 3-times, and is #8 all-time), but of course, we all should know that no one (1) stat is sufficient for measuring any facet of the game, and that's especially true for Defense. In fact, "stats" overall (raw stats, and those fake ones that you hold in such high esteem) only tell a fraction of the story when it comes to Defensive impact.

It seems, in your efforts to educate yourself on the teachings of TDK, that you weren't paying full attention... better sharpen up that pencil and head on back to the books, little buckaroo.

Ok I’m starting to understand. So we shouldn’t just look at singular raw stats, but we should look at multiple and put them into context as to not get just a fraction of the picture.

[thedangerouskitchen]

I’m not trolling at all. You told me what stats matter so I’m using your preferred stats to educate myself. I’ve learned, because of your real stats, that AI defensively was greater than or equal to Jordan, pippen, and Rodman.

Actually what you should have learned is that Iverson is CLEARLY rightthere with the best-of-the-best when it comes to "Steals Per Game" (dude led the league 3-times, and is #8 all-time), but of course, we all should know that no one (1) stat is sufficient for measuring any facet of the game, and that's especially true for Defense. In fact, "stats" overall (raw stats, and those fake ones that you hold in such high esteem) only tell a fraction of the story when it comes to Defensive impact.

It seems, in your efforts to educate yourself on the teachings of TDK, that you weren't paying full attention... better sharpen up that pencil and head on back to the books, little buckaroo.

Ok I’m starting to understand. So we shouldn’t just look at singular raw stats, but we should look at multiple and put them into context as to not get just a fraction of the picture.

As noted "stats" (of any sort) don't always paint an entire picture, especially when it comes to measuring Defensive impact/effectiveness; however you are free to evaluate players any which way you choose, little trooper... and if you want to give credence to a made-up stat that claims Scottie Pippen is the 135th best player of all-time (ie; PER), or one that says Karl Malone is the 6th Greatest Defensive Player ever (by virtual of Defensive Win Shares), and that George McGinnis was a better Defender than MJ, Pip, Payton, Rodman, etc. (based on Defensive Rating) then by all means, knock yourself out... but just know that any astute hoops fan will laugh at you.

[Shill Jackson]

Hey... if "career Steals per game" average is the only criteria you use to evaluate Defensive play/impact, so be it. I would obviously disagree because Steals are just one (1) of many criteria, but you are entitled to your opinion (even if it makes you look like a novice hoops fan).

You said box score stats are the only real stats, and since steals end a possession while blocks don’t, it’s the best measure of defense, right?

I said there are stats based on fundamental facts/truths as we know them to be

like Jordan quit on the game, multiple times. FACT

[wailuaFC]

Actually what you should have learned is that Iverson is CLEARLY rightthere with the best-of-the-best when it comes to "Steals Per Game" (dude led the league 3-times, and is #8 all-time), but of course, we all should know that no one (1) stat is sufficient for measuring any facet of the game, and that's especially true for Defense. In fact, "stats" overall (raw stats, and those fake ones that you hold in such high esteem) only tell a fraction of the story when it comes to Defensive impact.

It seems, in your efforts to educate yourself on the teachings of TDK, that you weren't paying full attention... better sharpen up that pencil and head on back to the books, little buckaroo.

Ok I’m starting to understand. So we shouldn’t just look at singular raw stats, but we should look at multiple and put them into context as to not get just a fraction of the picture.

As noted "stats" (of any sort) don't always paint an entire picture, especially when it comes to measuring Defensive impact/effectiveness; however you are free to evaluate players any which way you choose, little trooper... and if you want to give credence to a made-up stat that claims Scottie Pippen is the 135th best player of all-time (ie; PER), or one that says Karl Malone is the 6th Greatest Defensive Player ever (by virtual of Defensive Win Shares), and that George McGinnis was a better Defender than MJ, Pip, Payton, Rodman, etc. (based on Defensive Rating) then by all means, knock yourself out... but just know that any astute hoops fan will laugh at you.

I hear you. Because there are outliers in advanced stats we should disregard them. We should just look at the fundamental truths (raw stats) and take from it that some one like LeBron is better than Jordan at shooting twos, shooting 3s, rebounding, passing, and blocking shots, while Jordan was better at shooting free throws and scoring slightly more. Kendall Marshall was a better passer than Jordan, wilt was nearly twice as good at scoring as Jordan, and fatty Taylor was a better defender than Jordan. Glad we got that settled.