Irrefutable evidence/proof why the 90's were better and tougher than today's weak, sissy NBA

[thedangerouskitchen]

Irrefutable FACTS.

90's >>> Today.

Suck it up, buttercups:

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

I watched the 90s.

Loved it. But it's very inferior to today's product.

It's not hard to acknowledge.

[elartman1973]

I watched the 90s.

Loved it. But it's very inferior to today's product.

It's not hard to acknowledge.

Games were more intense and more fun back then. I don't care about higher scoring and better distance shooting now, that just watered it down, especially when taking 3 point shots is the goal of 99% of teams and is so predictable play after play that it makes most game unwatchable til the last few minutes.
The product is definitely not better. No matter how much more skilled players are..and by better skilled you mean just shooting. Not much else

[elmouse03]

So when and why did this we done with the 90s stuff come out?

Was it because of the all star game or the whole Lebron is on peds thing or something else?

[Robceltsfan]

I watched the 90s.

Loved it. But it's very inferior to today's product.

It's not hard to acknowledge.

Games were more intense and more fun back then. I don't care about higher scoring and better distance shooting now, that just watered it down, especially when taking 3 point shots is the goal of 99% of teams and is so predictable play after play that it makes most game unwatchable til the last few minutes.
The product is definitely not better. No matter how much more skilled players are..and by better skilled you mean just shooting. Not much else

Not much else?

Better shooting. Better spacing. Better ball handling by a wider range of players. Better athleticism.

And no boring-ass ISO offense. No watching Shaq back down the opposing center for 16 seconds....or watching Jordan get a clear out against the shortest white guy on the opposing team.

It's pretty much all better. Top to bottom.

[PhutureDynasty]

I watched the 90s.

Loved it. But it's very inferior to today's product.

It's not hard to acknowledge.

Games were more intense and more fun back then. I don't care about higher scoring and better distance shooting now, that just watered it down, especially when taking 3 point shots is the goal of 99% of teams and is so predictable play after play that it makes most game unwatchable til the last few minutes.
The product is definitely not better. No matter how much more skilled players are..and by better skilled you mean just shooting. Not much else

Not much else?

Better shooting. Better spacing. Better ball handling by a wider range of players. Better athleticism.

And no boring-ass ISO offense. No watching Shaq back down the opposing center for 16 seconds....or watching Jordan get a clear out against the shortest white guy on the opposing team.

It's pretty much all better. Top to bottom.

Teams do something similar through picks to get the best matchup to take advantage of. It's not as obvious with clearing out 4 men on one side but it still happens.

[thedangerouskitchen]

So when and why did this we done with the 90s stuff come out?

Was it because of the all star game or the whole Lebron is on peds thing or something else?

Yes... Yes... and also because of what Silver, Dumars, Gobert and many (current) players/coaches recently said about the state of today's NBA being so weak/soft Defensively, with the rules heavily favoring Offensive stat-padding.

Hence fans of today's era got butt-hurt with the truth, and decided to unleash their anger on the GOAT Michael Jordan and the 90's, with ridiculous videos spewing nothing but cherry-picked clips and bold-face lies (ie; like the notion that Jordan couldn't dribble to his left).

[thedangerouskitchen]

I watched the 90s.

Loved it. But it's very inferior to today's product.

It's not hard to acknowledge.

Games were more intense and more fun back then. I don't care about higher scoring and better distance shooting now, that just watered it down, especially when taking 3 point shots is the goal of 99% of teams and is so predictable play after play that it makes most game unwatchable til the last few minutes.
The product is definitely not better. No matter how much more skilled players are..and by better skilled you mean just shooting. Not much else

Not much else?

Better shooting. Better spacing. Better ball handling by a wider range of players. Better athleticism.

And no boring-ass ISO offense. No watching Shaq back down the opposing center for 16 seconds....or watching Jordan get a clear out against the shortest white guy on the opposing team.

It's pretty much all better. Top to bottom.

3-point shooting and dribbling... that's it, that's all with respect to what's "better" today, and I would suggest that dribbling is better because there is no contact allowed today (which means players have so much more space to operate).

Also, 2 of the Top 5 players today (Luka and Jokic) have only average athleticism... no more than the average player from th 90's.

Lastly, just because the "style" of the game is different today does NOT mean the game is better. In fact, we just heard from the NBA Com mish, the VP of Ops, and numerous "current" players/coaches who called-out the game today essentially, for being soft in general and weak Defensively.

90's NBA >>> today.

Facts.

[Robceltsfan]

Games were more intense and more fun back then. I don't care about higher scoring and better distance shooting now, that just watered it down, especially when taking 3 point shots is the goal of 99% of teams and is so predictable play after play that it makes most game unwatchable til the last few minutes.
The product is definitely not better. No matter how much more skilled players are..and by better skilled you mean just shooting. Not much else

Not much else?

Better shooting. Better spacing. Better ball handling by a wider range of players. Better athleticism.

And no boring-ass ISO offense. No watching Shaq back down the opposing center for 16 seconds....or watching Jordan get a clear out against the shortest white guy on the opposing team.

It's pretty much all better. Top to bottom.

3-point shooting and dribbling... that's it, that's all with respect to what's "better" today, and I would suggest that dribbling is better because there is no contact allowed today (which means players have so much more space to operate).

Also, 2 of the Top 5 players today (Luka and Jokic) have only average athleticism... no more than the average player from th 90's.

Lastly, just because the "style" of the game is different today does NOT mean the game is better. In fact, we just heard from the NBA Com mish, the VP of Ops, and numerous "current" players/coaches who called-out the game today essentially, for being soft in general and weak Defensively.

90's NBA >>> today.

Facts.

TDK, probably THE biggest difference is the 3-8 guys on every roster. The league is far deeper than it was a few decades ago. There are borderline starters in today's game that would be borderline all-stars in the 80's/90's. There are bench players in today's game that would be starters in the 80's/90's.

There were literal starting roster spots in the GLORY DAYS that were reserved for goons or simply big bodies to clog the middle. No real skills at all. They'd have no place in today's NBA.

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

Everything is better. Shooting, shooting from distance, ball movement, defensive rotations, obviously ball handling. You name the facet, and the game has gotten better. When I watch replays of 80s and 90s games now, I'm amazed I found it as enjoyable as it I did at the time. It just pales in comparison to the current product.

[PhutureDynasty]

Everything is better. Shooting, shooting from distance, ball movement, defensive rotations, obviously ball handling. You name the facet, and the game has gotten better. When I watch replays of 80s and 90s games now, I'm amazed I found it as enjoyable as it I did at the time. It just pales in comparison to the current product.

I haven't watched much film on the 90s recently but I will say that even if you don't enjoy watching that era now but you did back then that's because it was the pinnacle of basketball at the time so of course you're not gonna know what you know now about ball movement, shooting, and spacing to know how the game could be improved.

Otherwise, you'd have been a coach in the league at the time.

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

Everything is better. Shooting, shooting from distance, ball movement, defensive rotations, obviously ball handling. You name the facet, and the game has gotten better. When I watch replays of 80s and 90s games now, I'm amazed I found it as enjoyable as it I did at the time. It just pales in comparison to the current product.

I haven't watched much film on the 90s recently but I will say that even if you don't enjoy watching that era now but you did back then that's because it was the pinnacle of basketball at the time so of course you're not gonna know what you know now about ball movement, shooting, and spacing to know how the game could be improved.

Otherwise, you'd have been a coach in the league at the time.

I agree 100%. In hindsight, it makes sense how the game has evolved and players have improved.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Not much else?

Better shooting. Better spacing. Better ball handling by a wider range of players. Better athleticism.

And no boring-ass ISO offense. No watching Shaq back down the opposing center for 16 seconds....or watching Jordan get a clear out against the shortest white guy on the opposing team.

It's pretty much all better. Top to bottom.

3-point shooting and dribbling... that's it, that's all with respect to what's "better" today, and I would suggest that dribbling is better because there is no contact allowed today (which means players have so much more space to operate).

Also, 2 of the Top 5 players today (Luka and Jokic) have only average athleticism... no more than the average player from th 90's.

Lastly, just because the "style" of the game is different today does NOT mean the game is better. In fact, we just heard from the NBA Com mish, the VP of Ops, and numerous "current" players/coaches who called-out the game today essentially, for being soft in general and weak Defensively.

90's NBA >>> today.

Facts.

TDK, probably THE biggest difference is the 3-8 guys on every roster. The league is far deeper than it was a few decades ago. There are borderline starters in today's game that would be borderline all-stars in the 80's/90's. There are bench players in today's game that would be starters in the 80's/90's.

There were literal starting roster spots in the GLORY DAYS that were reserved for goons or simply big bodies to clog the middle. No real skills at all. They'd have no place in today's NBA.

Nonsense.

You're judging the skills/Offense of today's players against the Defense that they face, which we know is soft, weak and often times non-existent... and the fact that the NBA's very own Commish, the VP of Ops, and (current) players/coaches have gone on record to essentually confirm that fact is the only reason why today's players "appear" to be so much more skilled.

Put another way, ANY player from ANY era is going to look substatially better / more skilled on Offense if they're playing in a wide-open, run-gun, All-Star game style with minimal-to-zero contact allowed and inconsistent effort from the Defense.

It's actually a very simple concept.

[Robceltsfan]

3-point shooting and dribbling... that's it, that's all with respect to what's "better" today, and I would suggest that dribbling is better because there is no contact allowed today (which means players have so much more space to operate).

Also, 2 of the Top 5 players today (Luka and Jokic) have only average athleticism... no more than the average player from th 90's.

Lastly, just because the "style" of the game is different today does NOT mean the game is better. In fact, we just heard from the NBA Com mish, the VP of Ops, and numerous "current" players/coaches who called-out the game today essentially, for being soft in general and weak Defensively.

90's NBA >>> today.

Facts.

TDK, probably THE biggest difference is the 3-8 guys on every roster. The league is far deeper than it was a few decades ago. There are borderline starters in today's game that would be borderline all-stars in the 80's/90's. There are bench players in today's game that would be starters in the 80's/90's.

There were literal starting roster spots in the GLORY DAYS that were reserved for goons or simply big bodies to clog the middle. No real skills at all. They'd have no place in today's NBA.

Nonsense.

You're judging the skills/Offense of today's players against the Defense that they face, which we know is soft, weak and often times non-existent... and the fact that the NBA's very own Commish, the VP of Ops, and (current) players/coaches have gone on record to essentually confirm that fact is the only reason why today's players "appear" to be so much more skilled.

Put another way, ANY player from ANY era is going to look substatially better / more skilled on Offense if they're playing in a wide-open, run-gun, All-Star game style with minimal-to-zero contact allowed and inconsistent effort from the Defense.

It's actually a very simple concept.

Rules don't make it so 7 footers can take guards off the dribble.

Rules don't make it so that teams have 6-8 players that can hit shots from anywhere on the court.

Rules don't make it so that players have significantly better handles than in years past.

Rules don't make it so that players are shooting historically well from the free throw line.


You can keep trying to discredit it all you like, the facts are that this era would destroy the 00's and earlier.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Everything is better. Shooting, shooting from distance, ball movement, defensive rotations, obviously ball handling. You name the facet, and the game has gotten better. When I watch replays of 80s and 90s games now, I'm amazed I found it as enjoyable as it I did at the time. It just pales in comparison to the current product.

The mid range game, post play, overall Defense and overall fundamentals are all worse today... Offensive Rebounding is a joke as well, and for all the talk about ball movement/spacing, it's interesting to note that the FGA/AST ratio of today is no better than it was in the 90's.

Speaking of ball movement, it's not "better" it's just much EASIER when all 5 guys are standing on the 3 point line (today) vs. when the floor is more clogged.

Shooting? Yes from 3-point range; however from everywhere else on the court there is no evidence. In fact, I'd say it's even worse today considering there is very little mid-range and post play... and don't even bring up Scoring at the rim considering there is zero rim protectors today.

Defensive rotations??? What Defense?? Have you not been paying attention to what the NBA Commish, the VP of Ops, the best Defensive player in the game, and other (current) players/coaches have said about today's Defense, and how the game heavily favors the Offense?

In other words the game today is a wide-open All Star game with minimal Defense, which is exactly what the league wanted... THAT is why it "appears" as if today's players are so skilled, but that doesn't make the product as a whole any better. On the contrary it's quite boring when half the game centers on chucking a 3-pointer and MISSING 65% of the time.

That's only a "better" product to fans who never actually played the sport.

Fact.

[thedangerouskitchen]

TDK, probably THE biggest difference is the 3-8 guys on every roster. The league is far deeper than it was a few decades ago. There are borderline starters in today's game that would be borderline all-stars in the 80's/90's. There are bench players in today's game that would be starters in the 80's/90's.

There were literal starting roster spots in the GLORY DAYS that were reserved for goons or simply big bodies to clog the middle. No real skills at all. They'd have no place in today's NBA.

Nonsense.

You're judging the skills/Offense of today's players against the Defense that they face, which we know is soft, weak and often times non-existent... and the fact that the NBA's very own Commish, the VP of Ops, and (current) players/coaches have gone on record to essentually confirm that fact is the only reason why today's players "appear" to be so much more skilled.

Put another way, ANY player from ANY era is going to look substatially better / more skilled on Offense if they're playing in a wide-open, run-gun, All-Star game style with minimal-to-zero contact allowed and inconsistent effort from the Defense.

It's actually a very simple concept.

Rules don't make it so 7 footers can take guards off the dribble.

Rules don't make it so that teams have 6-8 players that can hit shots from anywhere on the court.

Rules don't make it so that players have significantly better handles than in years past.

Rules don't make it so that players are shooting historically well from the free throw line.


You can keep trying to discredit it all you like, the facts are that this era would destroy the 00's and earlier.

Weak / soft / zero Contact Defense makes all that possible... at the very least it makes it MUCH EASIER to do vs. when you're facing a defender who can bump/body/grab/push you out of position on the perimeter, or actually defend the basket and not allow the Parting of the Red Sea every time someone drives to the hoop.

Today's NBA is a glorified All Star game, and it's all possible because the "rules" today heavily favor the Offense.

Fact.

[Robceltsfan]

Assist/FGA ratios

1995-96 - 1:3.53
2023-24 - 1:3.34 (about 5.7% better)

FG% by distance

1996-97 - 10-16 feet - 38.3% (had to go forward a year since that's when stats started being kept)
2023-24 - 10-16 feet - 44.4% (ROFL today's players are WAY better in the mid-range)


Ironically, teams in 96-97 shot 45.5% in the 16-3P distance range.....just proving how moronic players and coaches were back then. Would you rather shoot 45.5% for a chance at 2 points (0.91 points per attempt) or 36.0% for 3 points (1.08 points per attempt)???

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

Assist/FGA ratios

1995-96 - 1:3.53
2023-24 - 1:3.34 (about 5.7% better)

FG% by distance

1996-97 - 10-16 feet - 38.3% (had to go forward a year since that's when stats started being kept)
2023-24 - 10-16 feet - 44.4% (ROFL today's players are WAY better in the mid-range)


Ironically, teams in 96-97 shot 45.5% in the 16-3P distance range.....just proving how moronic players and coaches were back then. Would you rather shoot 45.5% for a chance at 2 points (0.91 points per attempt) or 36.0% for 3 points (1.08 points per attempt)???

And assist to field goal attempts really doesn't tell the story on ball movement. Ball movement is HUGELY better now. It's not even in the same area code.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Assist/FGA ratios

1995-96 - 1:3.53
2023-24 - 1:3.34 (about 5.7% better)

FG% by distance

1996-97 - 10-16 feet - 38.3% (had to go forward a year since that's when stats started being kept)
2023-24 - 10-16 feet - 44.4% (ROFL today's players are WAY better in the mid-range)


Ironically, teams in 96-97 shot 45.5% in the 16-3P distance range.....just proving how moronic players and coaches were back then. Would you rather shoot 45.5% for a chance at 2 points (0.91 points per attempt) or 36.0% for 3 points (1.08 points per attempt)???

So the 90's = just 2 years, eh?



Also, you do realize that the first half of the 90's was much different (style-wise) than the second half, right? In terms of Offense/Pace the first half was much more like today, vs. the last half, which was a much slower Pace like the 00's.

Pace/Style/Rules all go together, and they all impact the game in one way or the other... example; it's MUCH HARDER to make a jump shot when the defender can elbow, body and bump you out of position vs. taking a shot with 3 feet of space between you and the defense.

Again... measuring the skill/production of an Offense withOut factoring in the Defense is insulting to astute hoops fans.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Assist/FGA ratios

1995-96 - 1:3.53
2023-24 - 1:3.34 (about 5.7% better)

FG% by distance

1996-97 - 10-16 feet - 38.3% (had to go forward a year since that's when stats started being kept)
2023-24 - 10-16 feet - 44.4% (ROFL today's players are WAY better in the mid-range)


Ironically, teams in 96-97 shot 45.5% in the 16-3P distance range.....just proving how moronic players and coaches were back then. Would you rather shoot 45.5% for a chance at 2 points (0.91 points per attempt) or 36.0% for 3 points (1.08 points per attempt)???

And assist to field goal attempts really doesn't tell the story on ball movement. Ball movement is HUGELY easier now. It's not even in the same area code.

Fixed for you... and it's YUUUGLEY easier because all 5 guys are behind the 3-point line, and the Defense can't make any contact.