PROOF that I haven't watched a game in 4+ years...

[thedangerouskitchen]

So I'm watching a youtube clip from last year where LeFraud bounce passes the ball to Dennis Schroder, who is standing just beyond the 3-point line. Schroder catches the ball, composes himself, does a quick pump-fake/jab-step with his right foot, brings his foot back, then proceeds to dibble and drive the ball all the way to the basket for a lay-up... and the guy in the clip says they counted that as an Assist (for LeFraud) these days!!



Someone please tell me this isn't true, because if it is it clearly explains why so many players have inflated Assists numbers nowadays (especially the Bigs like Jokic, Embiid, Sabonis, etc).

Hmmm... very interesting to say the least (if true), when you put things in proper context and perspective eh? Also begs the question: Is there any "made up" stat that adjusts for this CLEAR advantage today's players share vs. players from the past?

[thedangerouskitchen]

BUMP

So is this true or not?

Did the NBA change the rule to where Player A can now catch, compose, pump-fake/jab-step, then dribble from the 3-point line all the way to the basket, and the guy who passed him the ball (while Player A was standing behind the 3-point line) gets awarded with an Assist???

You guys watch today's "vastly superior NBA" (lol)... so what's the deal?

Anyone?
Anyone?

[elartman1973]

Then it's clear you're absolutely clueless and have no credibility and shouldn't comment on anything related to the NBA or anything related to being heterosexual and everything you've posted on such topics are renderred obsolete

[thedangerouskitchen]

Then it's clear you're absolutely clueless and have no credibility and shouldn't comment on anything related to the NBA or anything related to being heterosexual

As noted in the thread title/OP fatso... I haven't watched a game in 4+ years BUT just echoing what the narrator in the youtube clip stated.

You claim this is "not" awarded an Assist HOWEVER you have zero (0) credibility because you're an idiot, so I'll wait to hear from some other posters before I'm convinced.

Now run along and gobble down a couple quarts of ice cream, fatso.

[Shill Jackson]

90 proof

[thedangerouskitchen]

Ok, here's ANOTHER example of what I'm talking about... only this is Davis, in a very similar situation as I alluded to in the OP with Schroder.

LeFraud got credited with an Asssist!!

So again... did the NBA change its rules OR is this just something the league does for LeFraud only, to help him pad his stats?

[manchild98]

This is what happens when you get old and don't have a family...you spend the weekend bumping your own threads.

[thedangerouskitchen]

This is what happens when you get old and don't have a family...you spend the weekend bumping your own threads.

A very stupid comment, especially considering the nature of the topic. You could have just said you have no clue whether the league changed the rules. Or better still, you could have just said nothing.

[thedangerouskitchen]

Getting back to the topic... did the rule change or not?

I'm still having a very hard time believing the league would blatantly insult the players of the past by allowing today's players to pad their Assists totals for doing absolutely nothing. But then again, this is the pampered, babied, entitled generation so it's entirely possible.

So c'mon AG... I found two (2) different clips stating that the rule did change but I can't find anything in a Google search so for all I know the rule was changed 3-4 years ago.

Anyone know the scoop... or does this special treatment only apply to LeBron?

Anyone?

[Bush4Ever.]

Interpretation of what constitutes an assist has always been interpretative and inconsistent, even within-year:

Here is Larry Bird, in his book Drive (Jordan era, I believe this was 1989):

“Assists are a questionable state anyway. I believe it’s generally easier to get one on the West Coast. It’s just the way they interpret it. To me, assists should be given when a player gets the ball and scores — period. He can make a fake, but he can’t put the ball on the floor. You also can’t pump it three or four times and then put it in.

“There’s a limit to what should be allowed to be called an assist.”

https://www.sportscasting.com/larry-bir ... able-stat/

I remember that part of his book, and in the section immediately following it he directly stated it was easier to get one at the Forum (LA) vs. Boston Garden, which had a rep for being stingy.

Moreover, if you compare the Jordan era to some of the older eras like the Cousy era, it's very likely inflation took place, as the league leaders of that era maxed at eight a game.

For the league as a whole:

In 1958, 19.6 assists on 39.0 made FGs a game (50.2 percent)
in 1976, 23.0 assists on 42.1 made FGs a game (54.6 percent)
In 1992, 24.5 assists on 41.3 made FGs a game (59.3 percent)
In 2023, 25.3 assists on 42.0 made FGs a game (60.2 percent)

Now, that doesn't *automatically* mean the assist standard has been relaxed over time. It could be the case players are simply getting better at creating authentic assist situations. But it is interesting.

Again...this is why you should compare players within-era, and evaluate the degree to which they separated themselves from their within-era peers when analyzing greatness. Anyone believe Cousy was an equal passer in his era to Fred VanVleet (8.5 assists a game) in 2024?

[Bush4Ever.]

To check on the idea of LA being more friendly to assists in general, I looked at Magic's home vs. road splits.

It came out to 11.6 at home and 10.8 on the road.

Stockton was 10.9 vs. 10.1 home vs. road.

Paul to-date is 9.7 vs. 9.1 home vs. road

Mark Jackson was 8.3 vs. 7.6 home vs road.

I'm not convinced of an LA advantage, even though 0.8 assists a game over a 900+ game career is statistically significant. There's likely to be a general uplifting of performance at home, since the environment (no travel, family, friendly fans) will usually be more conducive to performance (which is probably why Stockton and Paul have similar differences). It would actually be more informative to track how road players generated assists in LA vs. other locations (LA vs. Utah, LA vs. Boston, LA vs. Western Teams, LA vs. NBA, etc...).

Interestingly, Steve Nash averaged more assists on the road (8.7/game) than home (8.3). I suspected that's more rare than common. Bird averaged 6.4 vs. 6.3 a game home vs. road. But again, it could be the case that the +0.1 difference is *depressed* from where it should be (0.5? 0.6?) from the regular "friendly home" effect. I'm more convinced of Boston stinginess than LA liberalism (in assists).

[Bush4Ever.]

I found this graph on RealGM:

Can't vouch for it, but it would seem to indicate more of a non-difference in the more modern eras compared to the 80s/90s (although it only goes through 2017):

[thedangerouskitchen]

Interpretation of what constitutes an assist has always been interpretative and inconsistent, even within-year:

Here is Larry Bird, in his book Drive (Jordan era, I believe this was 1989):

“Assists are a questionable state anyway. I believe it’s generally easier to get one on the West Coast. It’s just the way they interpret it. To me, assists should be given when a player gets the ball and scores — period. He can make a fake, but he can’t put the ball on the floor. You also can’t pump it three or four times and then put it in.

“There’s a limit to what should be allowed to be called an assist.”

https://www.sportscasting.com/larry-bir ... able-stat/

I remember that part of his book, and in the section immediately following it he directly stated it was easier to get one at the Forum (LA) vs. Boston Garden, which had a rep for being stingy.

Moreover, if you compare the Jordan era to some of the older eras like the Cousy era, it's very likely inflation took place, as the league leaders of that era maxed at eight a game.

For the league as a whole:

In 1958, 19.6 assists on 39.0 made FGs a game (50.2 percent)
in 1976, 23.1 assists on 42.1 made FGs a game (54.6 percent)
In 1992, 24.5 assists on 41.3 made FGs a game (59.3 percent)
In 2023, 25.3 assists on 42.0 made FGs a game (60.2 percent)

Now, that doesn't *automatically* mean the assist standard has been relaxed over time. It could be the case players are simply getting better at creating authentic assist situations. But it is interesting.

Again...this is why you should compare players within-era, and evaluate the degree to which they separated themselves from their within-era peers when analyzing greatness. Anyone believe Cousy was an equal passer in his era to Fred VanVleet (8.5 assists a game) in 2024?

All I know is that in all my years of watching the NBA (excluding the last 4+ of course) I have never, ever seen a player get credit for an Assist the way James did in the clip above (and the other, similar clip I saw from last year, involving LeBron / Schroder)... not even remotely close as a matter of fact, as James did absolutely nothing to deserve the accolade.

So the answer is simple: Only LeBron benefits from such an absurd "interpretation" of what constitutes an Assist.

I kinda figured that was the case, but didn't want to assume because I didn't want anyone thinking I was being a LeHater. Still, it begs the question: How many of these freebies has James received over the years?

[Bush4Ever.]

All I know is that in all my years of watching the NBA (excluding the last 4+ of course) I have never, ever seen a player get credit for an Assist the way James did in the clip above (and the other, similar clip I saw from last year, involving LeBron / Schroder)... not even remotely close as a matter of fact, as James did absolutely nothing to deserve the accolade.

So the answer is simple: Only LeBron benefits from such an absurd "interpretation" of what constitutes an Assist.

I kinda figured that was the case, but didn't want to assume because I didn't want anyone thinking I was being a LeHater. Still, it begs the question: How many of these freebies has James received over the years?

This is why no one engages with you seriously (for more than a volley or two) on basketball topics.

You response to good faith posts with trolling and "I'm such a sneaky manipulator" efforts.

[thedangerouskitchen]

All I know is that in all my years of watching the NBA (excluding the last 4+ of course) I have never, ever seen a player get credit for an Assist the way James did in the clip above (and the other, similar clip I saw from last year, involving LeBron / Schroder)... not even remotely close as a matter of fact, as James did absolutely nothing to deserve the accolade.

So the answer is simple: Only LeBron benefits from such an absurd "interpretation" of what constitutes an Assist.

I kinda figured that was the case, but didn't want to assume because I didn't want anyone thinking I was being a LeHater. Still, it begs the question: How many of these freebies has James received over the years?

This is why no one engages with you seriously (for more than a volley or two) on basketball topics.

You response to good faith posts with trolling and "I'm such a sneaky manipulator" efforts.

I wasn't trolling. My question in the OP was sincere... I genuinely wanted to know if the league changed the rules BECAUSE in all my years of watching hoops I have never seen a player get credit for Assists in that ridiculous manner.

You brought forth information to suggest Assists have always been up for interpretation, implying that the rule was not changed.

Okay, fine.

So have "you" ever witnessed another player (beside LeBron) be the beneficiary of such a generous "interpretation" of an Assist, when the fact is he literally did absolutely nothing to deserve it?

It's like the guy in the clip said... you may as well give the Assist to the Coach for having LeBron on the floor.

Yes, I believe LeBron is an over-rated fraud who has been the most pampered and babied player ever, and the beneficiary of UNPRECEDENTED special / preferential treatment.

This thread, with the help of your posts, confirms it.

[Bush4Ever.]

Sure thing TDK. You are definitely being serious. A hyper liberal scoring of an assist has *never* happened in NBA history.

Since I know you were watching in 2011 (Bulls), there were 1,230 games played in 2011.

There were almost 53K assists, only in 2011.

Provide evidence to me that you watched 1,230 games and tracked the nearly 53K assists in 2011, and discovered all of those assists fell beneath the standard illustrated in that one single play, or cherry-picked set of plays.

I'll respond with substance after you've provided said proof to your very serious posts that definitely aren't trolling.

[Bush4Ever.]

I know TDK won't respond to my post with proof and evidence of his claims, so I'll leave one last post on this part:

Walt Frazier was credited with 19 assists in Game 7 of the 1970 NBA Finals:

In reality, he liked had no more than nine or so when game tape is examined:

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewto ... ?t=1130334

There are plenty of other examples in that thread that illustrate how wildly assist totals have been manipulated by scorekeepers in NBA history.

In reality, assists are an ancient statistic in determining value because they are contingent on so many things that are not linked with value (like scorekeeper biases, quantity of possessions played, quantity of possessions with ball-in-hand), or linked with value differently but scored the same (for example, a Nash drive-pull-dish-for-a-dunk to Amare vs. Rondo passing the ball to Ray Allen coming off a screen for an open three...both are one assist...but different value).

In reality, the ideas of creation is a better metric/index of what assists were claiming to measure all these years through implication:

A good read:
https://fansided.com/2017/08/11/nylon-c ... box-score/

[thedangerouskitchen]

Sure thing TDK. You are definitely being serious. A hyper liberal scoring of an assist has *never* happened in NBA history.

Since I know you were watching in 2011 (Bulls), there were 1,230 games played in 2011.

There were almost 53K assists, only in 2011.

Provide evidence to me that you watched 1,230 games and tracked the nearly 53K assists in 2011, and discovered all of those assists fell beneath the standard illustrated in that one single play, or cherry-picked set of plays.

I'll respond with substance after you've provided said proof to your very serious posts that definitely aren't trolling.

I've been watching the NBA regularly since the mid 80's... not once did I witness a player get credited with an Assist for literally doing nothing to deserve it, the way LeBron got credit for the AD and Schroder Assists (and God knows how many hundreds more that have gone unnoticed).

Did you even watch the clip I posted? How can you defend that blatant LeFavortism?

Face facts: LeBron has gotten more love from the league than any player in NBA history, by far and away.

[elartman1973]

Tdk...no credibility

[Robceltsfan]

How often does a casual fan watch a game and check every play where an assist was credited?

I'd guess 0.000% of the time.