Jesus, real or fake?

[LookAway]

you are calling every man in the Bible a liar--men who went to their graves defending Jesus and what they saw and eye-witnessed.

No man dies for something they KNOW to be a lie.

Some men may die *thinking* a lie is the truth (stupid terrorists and the Muslim religion is case in point of that). But NO man will die for something they KNOW to be a lie unless they had a death wish, and to my knowledge that is NOT human nature.

Had Jesus not done these things: death on the cross, resurrection, miracles, professing to be God in flesh, etc., then the 12 disciples would not have died proclaiming the lies. They would have said, "yeah, you're right I'm making it up" to preserve their life. Then they would have lived. But these men went to their graves because they died for what they saw and felt convicted enough to tell the world even if it meant giving up their lives to do so.

The proof is there, again, you have to be a buffoon to not believe it. You believe the eye witness stories of Abe Lincoln getting killed and you believe it at face value. But not what these men died proclaiming?

That's on you.

Two questions 1) Where in the Bible does Jesus say, " I am God"? 2) If Jesus was Jewish, then why are you not Jewish?

1) "Have I been such a long time with you,” returned Jesus, “without your really knowing me, Philip? The man who has seen me has seen the Father” (John 14:9).

In other words, Jesus was saying: “Philip, if you want to see the Father, look at me.

ALSO:

My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.” 31 At this, the Jews again picked up stones to stone Him.…

2) I am a Christian, which means follower of Christ. I do not adhere to the Jewish faith, it is a dead faith, they are still looking for their messiah, but He has already came and died for them.

1) Jesus was a Jew so despite the fact that others Jews found him to be lacking, you think they are wrong. Have you asked yourself what they saw that you don’t? Jews are historically very good at two things: A) Lying B) Being whiny bitches. Thems are the facts
2) Based on those quotes, he could mean we are all sons of God, so what makes him special?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CleveTown™]

1) Jesus was a Jew so despite the fact that others Jews found him to be lacking, you think they are wrong. Have you asked yourself what they saw that you don’t? Jews are historically very good at two things: A) Lying B) Being whiny bitches. Thems are the facts
2) Based on those quotes, he could mean we are all sons of God, so what makes him special?

1) What does it matter that Jesus was a Jew? NONE. Jews found him lacking, so what? They were beguiled by Satan. They did not believe His claim to be their messiah just like the old testament taught. They are wrong.
2)Jesus said He and the Father are one. He also said when you see me you see the father. There's no mistaking that or taking it out of context. I cannot say when you see me you see the father or me and the God are one.

[LNS]

Clevey definitely won this thread. And that’s coming from a heathen non-believer like me. Master Spade and Lookaway.... hang your heads in shame.

[Bush4Ever35]

Why do academic historians believe Jesus existed (at least some of them)?

[Sudanese Sensation]

Why do academic historians believe Jesus existed (at least some of them)?

The work of ancient Roman historians:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


I remember sitting in a pew in Winter Park, Florida and the pastor saying "If you want intellect, forget Jesus." I can see how non-theists can have a field day with that but he was basically saying faith is a different level of understanding.

[Bush4Ever35]

I remember sitting in a pew in Winter Park, Florida and the pastor saying "If you want intellect, forget Jesus." I can see how non-theists can have a field day with that but he was basically saying faith is a different level of understanding.

Honestly, that's a real unsatisfying statement in my opinion.

Not your response to my question, but what the pastor said.

[Sudanese Sensation]

I remember sitting in a pew in Winter Park, Florida and the pastor saying "If you want intellect, forget Jesus." I can see how non-theists can have a field day with that but he was basically saying faith is a different level of understanding.

Honestly, that's a real unsatisfying statement in my opinion.

Not your response to my question, but what the pastor said.

I found this:

http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles ... 154120.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and am reading it for the first time.

[Bush4Ever35]

I found this:

http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles ... 154120.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and am reading it for the first time.

lol John cucked the crap out of Raphael.

[Sudanese Sensation]

I found this:

http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles ... 154120.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and am reading it for the first time.

lol John cucked the crap out of Raphael.

Are you suggesting Raphael is affected by The Dunning Kruger Effect ?

[Bush4Ever35]

Are you suggesting Raphael is affected by The Dunning Kruger Effect ?

I think it's more likely an emotional issue than anything else.

If you see your atheism as central to your identity, you are more likely to warp evidence and arguments.

[rileymartin]

Why cant Jesus simply perform a great miracle to prove to the world he is real?

[Shill Jackson]

Why do academic historians believe Jesus existed (at least some of them)?

The work of ancient Roman historians:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As has already stated, the oldest copy of Tacitus, from 1100 years after, has been shown to have been tampered with.

[Bush4Ever35]

As has already stated, the oldest copy of Tacitus, from 1100 years after, has been shown to have been tampered with.

What does the opposition say in response to that charge?

[Shill Jackson]

As has already stated, the oldest copy of Tacitus, from 1100 years after, has been shown to have been tampered with.

What does the opposition say in response to that charge?

See above from Cleve - he turns to name calling, ‘cause facts are difficult to refute.

[Bush4Ever35]

See above from Cleve - he turns to name calling, ‘cause facts are difficult to refute.

I meant from academic historians.

[Master Spade]

Why cant Jesus simply perform a great miracle to prove to the world he is real?

1) Because that would make too much sense.

2) For the same reason that all those other 'gods' don't appear. That being, because it is impossible for fake beings like jesus to appear.


Some Creator Deity created the Universe to have a relationship with one species of Primate. Lucky us. He then hides and never shows himself to us. Makes sense.

[LookAway]

1) Jesus was a Jew so despite the fact that others Jews found him to be lacking, you think they are wrong. Have you asked yourself what they saw that you don’t? Jews are historically very good at two things: A) Lying B) Being whiny bitches. Thems are the facts
2) Based on those quotes, he could mean we are all sons of God, so what makes him special?

1) What does it matter that Jesus was a Jew? NONE. Jews found him lacking, so what? They were beguiled by Satan. They did not believe His claim to be their messiah just like the old testament taught. They are wrong.
2)Jesus said He and the Father are one. He also said when you see me you see the father. There's no mistaking that or taking it out of context. I cannot say when you see me you see the father or me and the God are one.

So people in his day saw him as a liar but 2000 years later he should be believed? By what metric are you measuring his reliability?
Him being Jew matters because that was the God he worshipped, yet that is not the God you worship. It seems you are picking the parts of his religion you like and skipping the rest


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LookAway]

Why do academic historians believe Jesus existed (at least some of them)?

The work of ancient Roman historians:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


I remember sitting in a pew in Winter Park, Florida and the pastor saying "If you want intellect, forget Jesus." I can see how non-theists can have a field day with that but he was basically saying faith is a different level of understanding.

If you want Intellect forget Santa Clause, isn’t that the same statement?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LookAway]

As has already stated, the oldest copy of Tacitus, from 1100 years after, has been shown to have been tampered with.

What does the opposition say in response to that charge?

I can reference Jesus and Pontius Pilot too, but that doesn’t mean I know any better. It could have just be a story that was passed down


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bush4Ever35]

What does the opposition say in response to that charge?
I can reference Jesus and Pontius Pilot too, but that doesn’t mean I know any better. It could have just be a story that was passed down

I'm interested in the arguments and counter-arguments by experts.

I doubt very much the academic response to those charges among historians is "nah nah nah nah, he/they weren't lying".

A sign of someone well-versed in content is their ability to understand and state arguments from both sides of an issue.

Right now, I can't do that on the topic of a historical Jesus.