True/False: The NBA has less talent now than years prior.

[Y2K]

Games are more sophisticated now in all three major sports because of Big Data. i was reading this book about Wilt and the litany of coaches he played for. All one of his coaches did is tell flatulence jokes and his pre game planning consisted of asking his players "what are we going to do today, fellas?"

and all major sports and hockey (which attendance has surpassed the NBA) have made it easier to get numbers.

example. last year 4 QBs (and 2 others came close) broke Dan Marino's season yardage record after 27 years because you can barely touch WRs now.

Yeah but the rules have changed to open the game up....mainly because technology has evolved to the point where coaches could game plan a defense to the tee.

[Havlicekstealsit]

NFL backfields and NBA perimeter defenders are probably the most useless jobs out there in the sports world now. Can you even blink in a guy's direction now?

[Smelters]

There are more good quality players in the NBA today than in prior years. The defences are much more sophisticated today than they were in prior eras.

It's not to say that one era is superior to another. That stuff is always bull crap. There are no magic time machines where you can take a player from today and put him in the game 50 years ago. LeBron born 50 years ago would not have a game remotely close to what his game looks like today. Conversely, a guy like Bob Cousy would look incredibly different today compared to how he looked when he played if he were born 60 years later. His game would look far, far more evolved for a ton of different reasons.

This era is weak stuff is bullshit, just like saying the 80s was weak and Bird would be a role player today. It's 100% nonsense.

Please stop listening to the media, espn about defenses being more sophisticated. What defense would a bball player with good or great awareness (see guys not athleticism but some brains) have trouble with? a zone is a zone and a man to man is all the same, wow, the b$ the media puts in peeps mind so that we can have social media discussions about wannabes trying to be like ...., oh just too easy!!!

You are trying way too hard. I've been watching hoops since the 1970s and trying to pretend that team defence hasn't evolved immeasurably is just ridiculous. It was much more of a I'll take mine and you'll take yours league than it is today.

The only way they have evolved is that they have to compensate for defensive 3 calls which help the offensive player nowadays.

Players back then had to figure out what to do with the guys waiting in the paint to hammer you or block your shot with good Cs. Nothing a pull up mid range jumper can't handle, many guys back then had midrange shots, not so much now. So whatcha sayin'?

[Smelters]

Games are more sophisticated now in all three major sports because of Big Data. i was reading this book about Wilt and the litany of coaches he played for. All one of his coaches did is tell flatulence jokes and his pre game planning consisted of asking his players "what are we going to do today, fellas?"

and all major sports and hockey (which attendance has surpassed the NBA) have made it easier to get numbers.

example. last year 4 QBs (and 2 others came close) broke Dan Marino's season yardage record after 27 years because you can barely touch WRs now.

Yeah but the rules have changed to open the game up....mainly because technology has evolved to the point where coaches could game plan a defense to the tee.

The only game planning that works now is done by the NBA/Stern to help wannabes try to be like legends of the past. And they tell you that they are going to do it.

So they let a guy get away with terrible footwork and travel consistently for years until he fixes it finally. And peeps with short attention spans (huh???) tend to forget it even happened.

[thedangerouskitchen]

True... to-a-man there is less talent / skill / fundamentals in the league relative to the 80's and 90's.

[Y2K]

True... to-a-man there is less talent / skill / fundamentals in the league relative to the 80's and 90's.

So less talent overall in the league or less depth on each team on a league-wide basis?

[thedangerouskitchen]

True... to-a-man there is less talent / skill / fundamentals in the league relative to the 80's and 90's.

So less talent overall in the league or less depth on each team on a league-wide basis?

Probably a bit of both... I would say that the top-tier talent of today is on-par with the top talent of other eras, meaning the stars of today would be stars yesterday (and vice versa); however once you get past the 7th-8th guy on most rosters today, you're talking about a ton of players who (IMO) wouldn't have made NBA back in the day.

[DorianRo]

Obviously True.. This is the absolute WORST the eastern conference has ever been. This has been the absolute WORST the draft has ever been with the not much talent coming out of the draft at all. Very few skilled Centers in the league anymore, perimeter will less skill than their predecessors. Compare the West now to the West 10 years ago.

Compare the top talents of guys today to the top talents of the guys in the 80s, 90s, 00's. Its not even close.

From top to bottom, the league is in the absolute WORST state it has ever been. Less skill, obsolete talented all time great big men, no all time top 4-5 talented GOATs being produces, 95 percent of the league weak and utter trash with NO talent whatsoever. Glorified average role players ( who would be lucky to see over 10 mins a game in the 90s and 00s) making all star-teams.

A top 3-5 talent in the league today would be LUCKY to be top 10 in certain eras past.

The list goes on and on and about how weak the NBA has become. Camelo is a top 3-4 player in the game.. Carmelo freakin Anthony.. Yea thats all you need to know.. I like Melo, but come on....


We can also provide PROOF in the Spurs (who's core players are OLD, broken down with a ton of miles on them) make the finals and take the "best team in the game" to 7 Games in the NBA fnals in which the Heat needed LUCK in Game 6 just to scrape by them. How much more PROOF do you need?. Top guys today can barely make it by Ancient Dinousaurs

And people mentioned Rony Seikaly, who would be a top 2 Center in the game today. ROFLMAO

However, if we transport the top dogs of eras past to the game today (Jordan. Bird, Magic, Shaq, Hakeem) do you realize what they would do? Make a complete JOKE and Mockery of the trash NBA today. Who the hell would they have to go up against? Birdman?

[thedangerouskitchen]

Obviously.. This is the absolute WORST the eastern conference has ever been. This has been the absolute WORST the draft has ever been with the not much talent coming out of the draft at all. Very few skilled Centers in the league anymore, perimeter will less skill than their predecessors. Compare the West now to the West 10 years ago.

Compare the top talents of guys today to the top talents of the guys in the 80s, 90s, 00's. Its not even close.

From top to bottom, the league is in the absolute WORST state it has ever been. Less skill, obsolete talented all time great big men, no all time top 4-5 talented GOATs being produces, 95 percent of the league weak and utter trash with NO talent whatsoever. Glorified average role players ( who would be lucky to see over 10 mins a game in the 90s and 00s) making all star-teams.

While I believe many superstars today (like Durant, Rose, Wade, CP3, Love, et al) would also be stars in previous eras, I do agree that the level of overall talent today is weaker than its been since the 70's.

[thedangerouskitchen]

The list goes on and on and about how weak the NBA has become.

The Heat didn't face a 50 win team until the Finals last year... how is THAT for a perfect illustration of how weak the league is today!

[DorianRo]

Jordan would have half a dozen seasons today where he puts up 40-45 ppg or better. (And probably could put a 100 points in a game if he truly wanted to) Bird would have a field day so would Magic, Hakeem and Shaq would feast on the non-existent interior opposition,

Difference is, the top guys of eras past would Dominate even moreso than they did in their time, the top guys today would be less dominant in eras past as they are now

[DorianRo]

Obviously.. This is the absolute WORST the eastern conference has ever been. This has been the absolute WORST the draft has ever been with the not much talent coming out of the draft at all. Very few skilled Centers in the league anymore, perimeter will less skill than their predecessors. Compare the West now to the West 10 years ago.

Compare the top talents of guys today to the top talents of the guys in the 80s, 90s, 00's. Its not even close.

From top to bottom, the league is in the absolute WORST state it has ever been. Less skill, obsolete talented all time great big men, no all time top 4-5 talented GOATs being produces, 95 percent of the league weak and utter trash with NO talent whatsoever. Glorified average role players ( who would be lucky to see over 10 mins a game in the 90s and 00s) making all star-teams.

While I believe many superstars today (like Durant, Rose, Wade, CP3, Love, et al) would also be stars in previous eras, I do agree that the level of overall talent today is weaker than its been since the 70's.

Certain guys would of course, but most wouldn't. Im not sure any of the true top elites in the game today would be AS elite in eras past. I think the NBA is in worst state now than it was even 10-12 years ago talent wise

If we look at the top guys now ( Melo, Durant, Lebron, Wade, Love) is that better than Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Mcgrady, Iverson etc? Personally, I don't think so

Shaq and Duncan>>>> Anyone in the game today
Kobe 10 years ago probably>>> Anyone today. Some argue Lebron but I think Kobe was a tad better in his day.
Iverson>>Melo, and on par with Wade IMO

It becomes even more lopsided when we compare top elites of the 80s and 90s to today

[thedangerouskitchen]

Obviously.. This is the absolute WORST the eastern conference has ever been. This has been the absolute WORST the draft has ever been with the not much talent coming out of the draft at all. Very few skilled Centers in the league anymore, perimeter will less skill than their predecessors. Compare the West now to the West 10 years ago.

Compare the top talents of guys today to the top talents of the guys in the 80s, 90s, 00's. Its not even close.

From top to bottom, the league is in the absolute WORST state it has ever been. Less skill, obsolete talented all time great big men, no all time top 4-5 talented GOATs being produces, 95 percent of the league weak and utter trash with NO talent whatsoever. Glorified average role players ( who would be lucky to see over 10 mins a game in the 90s and 00s) making all star-teams.

While I believe many superstars today (like Durant, Rose, Wade, CP3, Love, et al) would also be stars in previous eras, I do agree that the level of overall talent today is weaker than its been since the 70's.

Certain guys would of course, but most wouldn't. Im not sure any of the true top elites in the game today would be AS elite in eras past. I think the NBA is in worst state now than it was even 10 years ago talent wise

Yeah, but it's not only a lack of talent. The game today is so much softer... players drive to the basket AT WILL, without so much as brushing jerseys with a defender. Touch a guy on the perimeter and it's a foul. When you stop and think how these softer rules make it so much easier for today's players you begin to wonder how they would react if they KNEW they were going to get hammered in the paint every time they drove... or that the guy guarding them on the perimeter would be allowed to elbow, grab and even push you out of position (to take away your first-step).

I'm guessing a guy like LeBron, for example (who uses his off arm to shove the defender every time he drives but never gets called for a foul), would find it MUCH tougher to get to the basket IF the guy guarding him was allowed to make as much physical contact as he (James) does AND get away with it.

So yeah, in that respect you're probably correct: Even the superstars wouldn't be as good back in the day as they are today.

[wailuaFC]

Jordan would have half a dozen seasons today where he puts up 40-45 ppg or better. (And probably could put a 100 points in a game if he truly wanted to) Bird would have a field day so would Magic, Hakeem and Shaq would feast on the non-existent interior opposition,

Difference is, the top guys of eras past would Dominate even moreso than they did in their time, the top guys today would be less dominant in eras past as they are now

Link?

[FPL]

Is there a way to ignore users? This smelters guy is annoying.

Smelters is my guy, but if you want to ignore a user, just click on his/her profile (how you do this depends on which style you're using) and add him/her to your "Foes" list. There's also a "Friends" list, though it doesn't serve too much of a purpose.

[Da Stars.]

This is a fun topic. Talent VS fundamentals and basketball IQ. What has the ESPN highlight reel done to todays NBA and NCAA. Everyone here want to see the dunks. Not the 15 foot jump shot. Or the free throw made.

[town bidness]

absolutely false.

[town bidness]

Just off the top of my head - shooters moving without the ball. Ray Allen was a master at this in his prime, but too many offenses have shooters just standing around.

PGs who bring the ball up the sides instead of the middle. That's one of easiest ways to get trapped.

Boxing out and other low-box footwork for both offense and defense.

Following your shot. Players rarely do this anymore outside the paint. I call it the chuck and backpedal.

Missed midrange jumpers and the ability to transition back on D. Too many players admiring their shot and not hustling back to catch their man.


Like I said, players are looking to bypass these in development by only playing college ball for a year, or even not at all like Brandon Jennings. At the college level, we're deep into a generation of players who are more concerned about their individual outcome than the collective (team) one. You want to work on becoming the better player, or just a better draft pick?

The bulk of the big men can't even post up and be legit scorers. The main bigs who do score rely far more on athleticism, not skill.

Shooters moving without the ball - I'm not exactly sure where you're going with this. Reddick, Durant, Curry, Korver, Martin, etc. all do a phenomenal job moving without the ball. Plus so many teams nowadays are focused on pick-and-rolls so it'd make more sense having shooters space the floor rather than draw up a series of off-ball screens to shoot a jumpshot that's going to be contested by a good defensive team

Point Guards bringing the ball up the sides - I literally only see this when they're calling a timeout or when teams are already pressing them to the sides. Not a big deal by any stretch of the imagination.

Not following your shot - You mean transition defense? It's more fundamentally sound to get back in transition.

Midrange jumpshot - Meh, that's just the transition of the game. Why not step back and go for 3 points instead of taking a long jumpshot for 2 points? Funny how players from the 80's and 90's never receive any criticism for failing to expand their range yet players nowadays are criticized for taking more efficient shots.

This is what's wrong with your type of argument. There is no objective method to keep track of something like how often players boxed out in the 90's compared to today. Everything is subjective and susceptible to human error/bias. It's an inherently poor argument.

As for big men, how many true post threats existed in the 90's anyways? Bigs like Garnett, Dirk, Amare, Webber, Love, Bosh, etc EXPANDED their games to involve perimeter skillsets to make them a more dynamic offensive threat. What fans don't realize is that not every team in the 90's had a Hakeem or Shaq on their roster. If you take the big men from the 90's and compare them to the bigs from the 00's, you'd realize as a collective group, the disparity in talent is nowhere near what the media wants you to believe. A player like Laimbeer would be a towel waver in today's league.

it seems the years of being edified (for free) by me has finally had a positive effect on you.

not bad witness.

[dunkan5rings]

"The NBA has less talent now than years prior" = The NBA's talent has colluded and joined LeFraud Shames and the Miami cHeat...a team of collusioners.

Dwayne Wade is supposed to be leading his own team.

LeHelpMehPlease is supposed to be leading his own team.

Ray colluding with the cHeat further tipped the scale in favor of Miami.

The No. 1 pick Greg Oden getting in on the collusion action.

The No.2 pick Michael Beastley as well.

Then you have role players such as The Birdman who was already part of a solid team out west only to betray them just like RayRay did the Celtics.

Most of the talent either joined the cHeat or colluded elsewhere.

[Y2K]

absolutely false.

Explain your reasoning please.