2015 Anger General Greatest post-merger Players of All Time #6

[l3bron]

For the record, I think Kobe is worthy of this spot too. I just value Lebron's vastly superior peak over Kobe's volume numbers. I'll probably vote for Kobe next round.

[vcsgrizzfan]

I have a hard time with Kareem too. He's unquestionably top 3 all time but this isn't all time.

[Y2K]

There's literally no argument to be made for Kareem. No one had presented one at all.

Kareem's case is there:

-5 rings (leader or major contributor on 4) Scottie Pippen was a major contributer to six championships. He should be next on this list using that criteria even if statically he doesn't hold a candle to Lebron, Hakeem or Kobe right?


-high quality longevity Again, we're only looking at post-merger numbers. Just because he was old while doing it doesn't gain him brownie points.


Defensively, I don't give the edge to he nor Lebron. Two different styles that produced great results.

At their peaks, both players were totally unstoppable. On an individual level, I have never witnessed a player with the talent of lebron...other than MJ. Except we're not talking about their peaks. This is Kareem at the tail end of his peak. I have Kareem as high as #2 in an all time ranking but in this list he doesn't compare to what Lebron, Hakeem and Kobe have done.


For some, Lebron's playoff disappointments factors pretty heavily In keeping him down on the list. Aside from 2011 (and even then his production would be a career season for most) Lebron has been phenomenal in the Playoffs. He's one of the greatest Playoff performers in NBA history. These people place too much value in team accomplishments. Hakeem should be knocked down a couple more pegs if he took his Playoff disappointments.

1. Scottie Pippen was never the leader of any championship team. Kareem did multiple times. Scottie doesn't belong on this conversation.

2. Why should we discount the age in which Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was playing at a high level? Not just Kareem but any player? Is that not important at all?

3. The height of Kareem's Peak Was 1975-77. Don't let the Milwaukee years fool you. Those weren't the years where he was at his refined level that he is known for.

***The comment about team accomplishments is a whole nother can of worms. I'm not going to get into that one but you can elaborate freely and I'll definitely read it.

[Y2K]

I'm sort of convinced Kareem doesn't belong in this spot, so the nexf post-merger on my GOAT list is Kobe, followed by LeBron.

Kobe Bryant is my new vote.

I'll document it.

[AbeVigodaLive]

James

[Havlicekstealsit]

Eh, I'll go with LeBron here. Kareem's gonna get in the top 10, but his post-merger numbers (save championships) have been eclipsed by a few guys.

[elmouse03]

me and grizz nominated John Starks and Bryant Reeves. I don't see their names on the list.

[PhutureDynasty]

So this means that a fair amount of posters have LeBron above of Kobe on their GOAT list.

They're 9 and 10 for me.

[elmouse03]

So this means that a fair amount of posters have LeBron above of Kobe on their GOAT list.

They're 9 and 10 for me.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=28239" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[PhutureDynasty]

So this means that a fair amount of posters have LeBron above of Kobe on their GOAT list.

They're 9 and 10 for me.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=28239" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That doesn't add up. How can we as a forum vote for Kobe ahead of LeBron (by a fair margin might I add) yet LeBron has more votes here?

Maybe all the Lakers fans are voting for Kareem instead of Kobe, which gives James more votes.

[Master Spade]

So this means that a fair amount of posters have LeBron above of Kobe on their GOAT list.

They're 9 and 10 for me.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=28239" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That doesn't add up. How can we as a forum vote for Kobe ahead of LeBron (by a fair margin might I add) yet LeBron has more votes here?

Maybe all the Lakers fans are voting for Kareem instead of Kobe, which gives James more votes.

Alot of things on this board don't make sense! lol!

[americaninfidel]

So this means that a fair amount of posters have LeBron above of Kobe on their GOAT list.

They're 9 and 10 for me.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=28239" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That doesn't add up. How can we as a forum vote for Kobe ahead of LeBron (by a fair margin might I add) yet LeBron has more votes here?

Maybe all the Lakers fans are voting for Kareem instead of Kobe, which gives James more votes.

That could be it. Personally I think Kobe is/was better than Lebron.

[l3bron]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=28239" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That doesn't add up. How can we as a forum vote for Kobe ahead of LeBron (by a fair margin might I add) yet LeBron has more votes here?

Maybe all the Lakers fans are voting for Kareem instead of Kobe, which gives James more votes.

That could be it. Personally I think Kobe is/was better than Lebron.

Kobe's never been better than Lebron.

[americaninfidel]

That doesn't add up. How can we as a forum vote for Kobe ahead of LeBron (by a fair margin might I add) yet LeBron has more votes here?

Maybe all the Lakers fans are voting for Kareem instead of Kobe, which gives James more votes.

That could be it. Personally I think Kobe is/was better than Lebron.

Kobe's never been better than Lebron.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that point.

[vcsgrizzfan]

So this means that a fair amount of posters have LeBron above of Kobe on their GOAT list.

They're 9 and 10 for me.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=28239" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That doesn't add up. How can we as a forum vote for Kobe ahead of LeBron (by a fair margin might I add) yet LeBron has more votes here?

Maybe all the Lakers fans are voting for Kareem instead of Kobe, which gives James more votes.

Another pretty impressive season by LeBron including another finals appearance. The resume doesn't sit still.

[elmouse03]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=28239" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That doesn't add up. How can we as a forum vote for Kobe ahead of LeBron (by a fair margin might I add) yet LeBron has more votes here?

Maybe all the Lakers fans are voting for Kareem instead of Kobe, which gives James more votes.

Another pretty impressive season by LeBron including another finals appearance. The resume doesn't sit still.

LeBron is only 2-2 in the finals yo.

[PhutureDynasty]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=28239" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That doesn't add up. How can we as a forum vote for Kobe ahead of LeBron (by a fair margin might I add) yet LeBron has more votes here?

Maybe all the Lakers fans are voting for Kareem instead of Kobe, which gives James more votes.

Another pretty impressive season by LeBron including another finals appearance. The resume doesn't sit still.

True. Quit thinking logically Grizz. Hurts my irrational head

[Y2K]

Vote is for Dream. Maybe he can get some support here. Also, I nominate KG.

I think most will put him in the top, top echelon among defenders (on their Mount Rushmores). At his peak, also a monster offensively. Here's some data:

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1330591" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and the obligatory beautiful tape (if he doesn't pass your eye test, nobody does):

[youtube]22O2lApCBBs[/youtube]
[youtube]GA_EIVfE8ak[/youtube]

Came into the league as a monster, and dominated early on:

[youtube]CgrqJnX7VwY[/youtube]
[youtube]eNGJl2MfyiI[/youtube]
[youtube]5k2k7UOz6KA[/youtube]
[youtube]duiSDY-h3ic[/youtube]
[youtube]R5qO2UIkUGc[/youtube]

His mid-season years were wasted because of four dudes...Ralph Sampson (too fragile, was moved), and the trio of John Lucas, Lewis Lloyd, and Mitchell Wiggins. Another great read from Grantland. From 88-92, his teams were in a state of constant turmoil.

For those interested, the 1991 series vs LA is online, a rematch of their series the year before (final playoff games before his offensive peak of 93, 94, 94, 96).

[youtube]7ztPHNrh3fk[/youtube]
[youtube]8C6YAsF912E[/youtube]
[youtube]1fXmR4q4WgA[/youtube]

He wasn't a perfect player. Had attitude issues early on, and got angry with his teammates when they underperformed. Passed out when doubled/tripled, not to create a play. Didn't have terrific discipline, fouled a ton. These issues were not a huge problem when he was at his best. Seattle's swarming defense also bothered him a ton, and for full disclosure, he didn't face them in 94, 95, and when he played them in 93, 96 they made his life difficult (though G7 in 93 is perhaps one of the worst refereed games in playoff history).

Still, 13 very high quality years (84-85 through 96-97), and a couple more starter caliber years from a GOAT level defender and one of the most effective post players in league history is nothing to sneeze at, certainly.

I'll have some quotes later on or in the next thread if he doesn't get much traction, but a lot of the video really speaks for itself.

You've convinced me, fpliii. I'm going Dream in this round.

Olajuwon's game a work in progress still:
[youtube]QNEZH1DhAhM[/youtube]

Olajuwon's more refined game:
[youtube]y-FbhBM9uvU[/youtube]

Olajuwon's game in full refinement mode:
[youtube]wvOhHwDfGec[/youtube]

In the first clip, the Lakers straight up forced other guys to beat them. They doubled and tripled Dream faithfully all series long and he wasn't very certain how to counter their plan. It didn't help that the offensive system was extremely basic.

[Y2K]

That could be it. Personally I think Kobe is/was better than Lebron.

Kobe's never been better than Lebron.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that point.

That's just l3bron being l3bron.

[Y2K]

Voting for this round closes at 4 PM CST.