2014 Anger General Geatest of All Time: #22 selection

[Y2K]

Wade has 4 votes here, not 3.

I haven't done an update yet.

[Yuh]

I am a little bit puzzled with the overwhelming love for Thomas. I can see a case for him but I would have him a little lower down.

There have been a number of posts forgetting that it wasn't Thomas against the Celtics, Bulls etc and personalizing matchups. Those Pistons were deep and talented with big and versatile front courts and another HOFer in the back court with him in Dumars.

I prefer both Wade and Dirk here over Thomas.

I'll vote Wade since it appears he has the best chance to overtake Thomas at this point.

Looking at it objectively, I don't think there is a good reason. But the reasoning for it probably goes back to that old Thomas vs. Wade poll on ESPN. Since this is apparently Wade's turn to get picked, the first name that pops into people's heads is Isiah Thomas. There's still a lot of residual hate for Dwyane Wade in part because of the past 4 years. It is what it is.

So the people who are picking Isiah Thomas is in spite of Wade?

No, not entirely, but I do think there's some personal bias. Objectively speaking, I otherwise just don't see a good argument for ranking Thomas ahead of Wade. Like I've been saying, you'd have to look for a reason to not put Wade in at this point.

[Y2K]

Looking at it objectively, I don't think there is a good reason. But the reasoning for it probably goes back to that old Thomas vs. Wade poll on ESPN. Since this is apparently Wade's turn to get picked, the first name that pops into people's heads is Isiah Thomas. There's still a lot of residual hate for Dwyane Wade in part because of the past 4 years. It is what it is.

So the people who are picking Isiah Thomas is in spite of Wade?

No, not entirely, but I do think there's some personal bias. Objectively speaking, I otherwise just don't see a good argument for ranking Thomas ahead of Wade. Like I've been saying, you'd have to look for a reason to not put Wade in at this point.

There's personal bias in just about every pick if not every pick.

I'm not buying that there's a "conspiracy" to keep Wade out of the rankings at this point. It's a close call right now but I thought Dirk, NOT Isiah Would be the guy providing the stiff competition.

[elmouse03]

So the people who are picking Isiah Thomas is in spite of Wade?

No, not entirely, but I do think there's some personal bias. Objectively speaking, I otherwise just don't see a good argument for ranking Thomas ahead of Wade. Like I've been saying, you'd have to look for a reason to not put Wade in at this point.

There's personal bias in just about every pick if not every pick.

I'm not buying that there's a "conspiracy" to keep Wade out of the rankings at this point. It's a close call right now but I thought Dirk, NOT Isiah Would be the guy providing the stiff competition.

Well beating the top 3 guys in what could have been the greatest era in the NBA's history is nothing to look down on.

[Y2K]

No, not entirely, but I do think there's some personal bias. Objectively speaking, I otherwise just don't see a good argument for ranking Thomas ahead of Wade. Like I've been saying, you'd have to look for a reason to not put Wade in at this point.

There's personal bias in just about every pick if not every pick.

I'm not buying that there's a "conspiracy" to keep Wade out of the rankings at this point. It's a close call right now but I thought Dirk, NOT Isiah Would be the guy providing the stiff competition.

Well beating the top 3 guys in what could have been the greatest era in the NBA's history is nothing to look down on.

Yeah But their TEAM from top to bottom was better. Hell Isiah Was not even an all-nba nor all-defensive player after 1987.

[elmouse03]

There's personal bias in just about every pick if not every pick.

I'm not buying that there's a "conspiracy" to keep Wade out of the rankings at this point. It's a close call right now but I thought Dirk, NOT Isiah Would be the guy providing the stiff competition.

Well beating the top 3 guys in what could have been the greatest era in the NBA's history is nothing to look down on.

Yeah But their TEAM from top to bottom was better. Hell Isiah Was not even an all-nba nor all-defensive player after 1987.

Isiah's teams were built on defense and toughness. He was the leading scorer on the title teams with a 18.3ppg combined average. 19.4ppg average in those 2 years in the playoffs. Led the team in scoring in the playoffs in those 2 years also.

[vcsgrizzfan]

No, not entirely, but I do think there's some personal bias. Objectively speaking, I otherwise just don't see a good argument for ranking Thomas ahead of Wade. Like I've been saying, you'd have to look for a reason to not put Wade in at this point.

There's personal bias in just about every pick if not every pick.

I'm not buying that there's a "conspiracy" to keep Wade out of the rankings at this point. It's a close call right now but I thought Dirk, NOT Isiah Would be the guy providing the stiff competition.

Well beating the top 3 guys in what could have been the greatest era in the NBA's history is nothing to look down on.

I agree completely with Y2ktors here. The Pistons had a really deep and solid team that was much, much more than Isiah. They had a very deep and talented front court and Joe Dumars as a running mate in the back court. They also had one helluva coach. Giving excessive credit to Isiah is revisionist history to me.

[elmouse03]

There's personal bias in just about every pick if not every pick.

I'm not buying that there's a "conspiracy" to keep Wade out of the rankings at this point. It's a close call right now but I thought Dirk, NOT Isiah Would be the guy providing the stiff competition.

Well beating the top 3 guys in what could have been the greatest era in the NBA's history is nothing to look down on.

I agree completely with Y2ktors here. The Pistons had a really deep and solid team that was much, much more than Isiah. They had a very deep and talented front court and Joe Dumars as a running mate in the back court. They also had one helluva coach. Giving excessive credit to Isiah is revisionist history to me.

So we are just going to diminish Isiah because of what he had around him?

[Yuh]

So the people who are picking Isiah Thomas is in spite of Wade?

No, not entirely, but I do think there's some personal bias. Objectively speaking, I otherwise just don't see a good argument for ranking Thomas ahead of Wade. Like I've been saying, you'd have to look for a reason to not put Wade in at this point.

There's personal bias in just about every pick if not every pick.

I'm not buying that there's a "conspiracy" to keep Wade out of the rankings at this point. It's a close call right now but I thought Dirk, NOT Isiah Would be the guy providing the stiff competition.

That's fine. I never hinted at anything of that sort. I'm just saying that I think some people who may have voted for someone other than Isiah (like Pippen or Dirk) are voting for Isiah because of a personal bias against Wade. I may be wrong, but then again it doesn't matter. I also think that someone like me or ripper could post a crapload of information to support an argument and it wouldn't have nearly as much of an influence on this board as something said by abe, vcsgrizz, or bush. Wrong or right, it is what it is.

[vcsgrizzfan]

Well beating the top 3 guys in what could have been the greatest era in the NBA's history is nothing to look down on.

I agree completely with Y2ktors here. The Pistons had a really deep and solid team that was much, much more than Isiah. They had a very deep and talented front court and Joe Dumars as a running mate in the back court. They also had one helluva coach. Giving excessive credit to Isiah is revisionist history to me.

So we are just going to diminish Isiah because of what he had around him?

I don't believe I am diminishing it one iota. I'm putting it in the proper context.

[Yuh]

Well beating the top 3 guys in what could have been the greatest era in the NBA's history is nothing to look down on.

I agree completely with Y2ktors here. The Pistons had a really deep and solid team that was much, much more than Isiah. They had a very deep and talented front court and Joe Dumars as a running mate in the back court. They also had one helluva coach. Giving excessive credit to Isiah is revisionist history to me.

So we are just going to diminish Isiah because of what he had around him?

I don't think it's an issue of diminishing what they were able to accomplish as much as it is about putting it in its proper context.

[wailuaFC]

This is the part of the list that gets really difficult for me. I love barkley and would love to vote for him, but is he really better the the admiral, cousy, dirk, etc? Personally, I dont like wade here, his prime was way too short and the drop off from his peak to what he is now was way too drastic. I havent a clue who I want to vote for

[ripper76]

This is the part of the list that gets really difficult for me. I love barkley and would love to vote for him, but is he really better the the admiral, cousy, dirk, etc? Personally, I dont like wade here, his prime was way too short and the drop off from his peak to what he is now was way too drastic. I havent a clue who I want to vote for

People act like Wade had this huge sudden and unexplained dropoff. He's 32 years old with bad knees and got 19 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 4.7 apg, 1.5 spg, on .545 fg% last year playing 2nd fiddle to the best player in the game. That's far from what he was but there were very few players at his position better last year.

[wailuaFC]

This is the part of the list that gets really difficult for me. I love barkley and would love to vote for him, but is he really better the the admiral, cousy, dirk, etc? Personally, I dont like wade here, his prime was way too short and the drop off from his peak to what he is now was way too drastic. I havent a clue who I want to vote for

People act like Wade had this huge sudden and unexplained dropoff. He's 32 years old with bad knees and got 19 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 4.7 apg, 1.5 spg, on .545 fg% last year playing 2nd fiddle to the best player in the game. That's far from what he was but there were very few players at his position better last year.

Its completely understandable why he had his drop off, but my problem is while many others that could be in this spot had a slow steady dropoff that produced good numbers late into their career (dirk, robinson, barkley) while wade dropped off significantly despite being having his minutes managed and playing alongside the best player in the game. I think wade will be on the list soon, but I just hold his short peak against him (also explains why I have players like KAJ, kobe, duncan, etc higher then most)

[ripper76]

This is the part of the list that gets really difficult for me. I love barkley and would love to vote for him, but is he really better the the admiral, cousy, dirk, etc? Personally, I dont like wade here, his prime was way too short and the drop off from his peak to what he is now was way too drastic. I havent a clue who I want to vote for

People act like Wade had this huge sudden and unexplained dropoff. He's 32 years old with bad knees and got 19 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 4.7 apg, 1.5 spg, on .545 fg% last year playing 2nd fiddle to the best player in the game. That's far from what he was but there were very few players at his position better last year.

Its completely understandable why he had his drop off, but my problem is while many others that could be in this spot had a slow steady dropoff that produced good numbers late into their career (dirk, robinson, barkley) while wade dropped off significantly despite being having his minutes managed and playing alongside the best player in the game. I think wade will be on the list soon, but I just hold his short peak against him (also explains why I have players like KAJ, kobe, duncan, etc higher then most)

I think you're penalizing him for his recent production only because it's not as good as what he did at his peak. He shouldn't be penalized for there being a gap in his production with amazing being at the high end and very good being the low end. Those are still very good numbers and amazing efficiency.

There shouldn't be a big black mark against a player for only being very good at the tail end of his career simply because he used to be much better.

[wailuaFC]

People act like Wade had this huge sudden and unexplained dropoff. He's 32 years old with bad knees and got 19 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 4.7 apg, 1.5 spg, on .545 fg% last year playing 2nd fiddle to the best player in the game. That's far from what he was but there were very few players at his position better last year.

Its completely understandable why he had his drop off, but my problem is while many others that could be in this spot had a slow steady dropoff that produced good numbers late into their career (dirk, robinson, barkley) while wade dropped off significantly despite being having his minutes managed and playing alongside the best player in the game. I think wade will be on the list soon, but I just hold his short peak against him (also explains why I have players like KAJ, kobe, duncan, etc higher then most)

I think you're penalizing him for his recent production only because it's not as good as what he did at his peak. He shouldn't be penalized for there being a gap in his production with amazing being at the high end and very good being the low end. Those are still very good numbers and amazing efficiency.

There shouldn't be a big black mark against a player for only being very good at the tail end of his career simply because he used to be much better.

Its not that theres a huge gap, its that his high end production didnt last long enough, while players like cousy, thomas, barkley, robinson, etc played at or near their peak for a longer period of time and I value longevity more so then most (so much so I dont know if I would put mikan in my top 30, he simply didnt play enough)

[Yuh]

I don't think wailua is biased in any way here, but I agree with what ripper said. His drop off is much more apparent than most because he has lost so much of his athleticism, which is a big part of what made him great. But he should also get props for adjusting his game accordingly and still being very effective and efficient in spite of it.

[wailuaFC]

I don't think wailua is biased in any way here, but I agree with what ripper said. His drop off is much more apparent than most because he has lost so much of his athleticism, which is a big part of what made him great. But he should also get props for adjusting his game accordingly and still being very effective and efficient in spite of it.

It helps his game greatly having his minutes managed and being rested quite a bit and not being the main focus of the defenses attention definitely helps his efficiency. That being said, you have to love guys who are able to adjust their games after losing heir athleticism, wade, kobe, paul, etc being able to find crafty ways to score and get their teammates involved speaks volume of their bball iq

[Y2K]

People act like Wade had this huge sudden and unexplained dropoff. He's 32 years old with bad knees and got 19 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 4.7 apg, 1.5 spg, on .545 fg% last year playing 2nd fiddle to the best player in the game. That's far from what he was but there were very few players at his position better last year.

Its completely understandable why he had his drop off, but my problem is while many others that could be in this spot had a slow steady dropoff that produced good numbers late into their career (dirk, robinson, barkley) while wade dropped off significantly despite being having his minutes managed and playing alongside the best player in the game. I think wade will be on the list soon, but I just hold his short peak against him (also explains why I have players like KAJ, kobe, duncan, etc higher then most)

I think you're penalizing him for his recent production only because it's not as good as what he did at his peak. He shouldn't be penalized for there being a gap in his production with amazing being at the high end and very good being the low end. Those are still very good numbers and amazing efficiency.

There shouldn't be a big black mark against a player for only being very good at the tail end of his career simply because he used to be much better.

That's the thing: When you're elite, you shouldn't decline as sharp as he has in such a short time. If it were a steady decline then it would be a non-issue.

I get that he's got the knee issues. But it is what it is.

[Y2K]

I don't think wailua is biased in any way here, but I agree with what ripper said. His drop off is much more apparent than most because he has lost so much of his athleticism, which is a big part of what made him great. But he should also get props for adjusting his game accordingly and still being very effective and efficient in spite of it.

He gets mad props for it, yuh. He's not being dismissed at all....but rather ppl are saying that he's not a lock for this spot. Others do have good cases for this spot.

I truly feel that these next few years will determine just how great Wade really is.

It's a strange thing to say possibly, but a post-athletic prime Wade without Lebron James needs to demonstrate that he's still a major impact guy. Too many times in the past 2 years, he was far from that. Was it the knees? His role? Lebron? We'll see....